Emmcee

Where Will Webber Go In 2014?

113 posts in this topic

No your right and that's the most frustrating thing about being a webber fan is hearing he will do this and that but always falls short,I mean he tries but for some reason just falls away side, he is a halfway there driver, but never the less I love him as he speaks his mind and if course because he is a fellow Aussie, ricciardo has been pretty impressive this year too.

Yes I am or was a Webber fan until he lost the 2010 title towards the end. And I know how you feel.

I am a big, big Massa fan forever and I share the same frustrations that you feel with Webber.

Ricciardo - I think will do well this year and a possible champion in the next 3-4 years if he keeps improving the same way. IMO

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You gotta feel for Massa don't you, I mean he IMO is the 2008 champion, if it wasn't for bloody glock grrrrr. And that terrible accident, it's good he has got some of that form back as it should keep his seat,all we can hope for now is a win sooner than later, where do you think ricciardo will end up if webber stays with rb as ricciardo has been linked to webbers seat if he leaves. He has been might quick in the wet this year to.

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RBR or...

...won't be WEC. Been there. Done that. Had a flipping good time. (Geddit???)

...won't be NASCAR - too old in the tooth is Marky Mark for learning how to turn left with a steering wheel shoved under your chin

...might be Indycar as winning the 500 would be alluring

...might be V8 Supercars because Lowndes is long in the tooth now and needs a break (me jokes)...maybe in the Supercheap car when Rusty retires at the end of the year. The allure of winning The Great Race as an Ocker has a real drawcard...could follow fellow F1 driver Larry Perkins, mayhaps?

....might be F5000 Tasman Revival Series because they are meaner and tougher than modern F1 (OK, I'm just wishing that since then I'll be in pitlane with him...hehehe)

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Champcars I could see him in,how would he go you think? V8 supercars, lowndes and mark are only two years apart in age I think,lowndes 38 webber 36, but I think he will stay with rb for atleast another year as for the WEC I think he won't go back either and I hope he doesn't as there is hardly now televised coverage here on that sort of racing,but if he stays for another year, it's just going to the same again,top 5 in championship 3rd if he has a good year and maybe a couple if wins, do you think he will win at all this year?

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Champcars I could see him in,how would he go you think? V8 supercars, lowndes and mark are only two years apart in age I think,lowndes 38 webber 36, but I think he will stay with rb for atleast another year as for the WEC I think he won't go back either and I hope he doesn't as there is hardly now televised coverage here on that sort of racing,but if he stays for another year, it's just going to the same again,top 5 in championship 3rd if he has a good year and maybe a couple if wins, do you think he will win at all this year?

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No reason to believe he won't win a race this year. At least one.

To do WEC he'd be having to be paid a Sh#tload, otherwise, why go there? He's been and done it. Nothing against all the very good drivers that are doing it now, and I think that there is going to be a real classy field at Le Mans, but it just doesn't seem suited to me for Mark.

As a sports person you always look for the next challenge, and he hasn't done Bathurst nor Indy 500...if I was in his shoes, then I'd be thinking along trying my hand at either of those two series. And there is nothing holding him back from doing a Le Mans AND race V8 Supercars (one of the current grid is doing it this year)

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How do you think he would go in v8s or champcar?

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Well, he wouldn't go anywhere in Champcars, as that series ceased to exist some years ago.

I think he would do reasonably well in V8's - the field is pretty open really - afer today's race, six points separate 2nd overall to 6th overall (or was it third to sixth????) Anyways, Australia needs another good Aussie in there before Scotty Mac, the Giz and Fabio take over for NZ and put Ockerland in it's place. (It is about time you lot realised that you are the West Island afterall :P )

In Indycar I think he would be mid pack to top five sort of material for the first year - so much technology is not in those cars that it will take a bit to unthink it all and drive with your backside again like in Formula Ford. If he did two or more years he would become more dominant. Had Rubes stuck out another year, then I think he would have been up the front. Rubes is definately a better driver than Ryan Hunter-Reey-Reey

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Yeah I think so too, I thought I was unfair they booted him and kept marinara, Rubens wife didnt want him racing Indy cars. That's why I think he didn't hang round long.

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You gotta feel for Massa don't you, I mean he IMO is the 2008 champion, if it wasn't for bloody glock grrrrr. And that terrible accident, it's good he has got some of that form back as it should keep his seat,all we can hope for now is a win sooner than later, where do you think ricciardo will end up if webber stays with rb as ricciardo has been linked to webbers seat if he leaves. He has been might quick in the wet this year to.

Yes I know. Massa just never had a full luck for a whole season. Had Glock did the other way around, then Lewis would not have even been a champ yet and would be whining more. But that's a diff topic.

If Ricciardo plays his cards correct and keep his work in place, avoid unnecessary politics then we may see him in one of the top teams sooner than later - so a chance for a world title may be possible. I have seen a lot of his interviews and I think he's got the right demeanor and mental toughness.

He's my Fav young driver right now and I hope to see him succeed.

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...won't be WEC. Been there. Done that. Had a flipping good time. (Geddit???)

Technically he hasn't. It wasn't a world championship back then. FIA sanctioned, yes, but not a World Championship as the WEC is now. Plus, the year the Mercedes had the flipping problem, he never even got to start Le Mans. WEC and Porsche provides him with a brilliant chance to become an FIA World Champion, and I don't think that is really something that should be sniffed at...

Porsche are very determined to sign him. So he will be getting a "Sh#tload." But given how much he has made from Formula One, money should be the least of his concerns when making a decision.

as for the WEC I think he won't go back either and I hope he doesn't as there is hardly now televised coverage here on that sort of racing,

I doubt Australia's lack of TV coverage will really detract from winning one of the world's greatest races, if I'm totally honest...

Edited by JHS18

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Technically he hasn't. It wasn't a world championship back then. FIA sanctioned, yes, but not a World Championship as the WEC is now. Plus, the year the Mercedes had the flipping problem, he never even got to start Le Mans. WEC and Porsche provides him with a brilliant chance to become an FIA World Champion, and I don't think that is really something that should be sniffed at...

Porsche are very determined to sign him. So he will be getting a "Sh#tload." But given how much he has made from Formula One, money should be the least of his concerns when making a decision.

I doubt Australia's lack of TV coverage will really detract from winning one of the world's greatest races, if I'm totally honest...

I didn't say it would, I said I hope he doesn't because I can't watch it,that's what I meant, and I agree with you as being a top notch championship,from what I've seen and very little it's quite competitive with quite a few big names, it would be a great choice in terms of that, but not for the armchair fan in Australia.

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The thing with a team like Williams or Force India or Sauber is that he'd need to bring funding. That's not what he's doing.

Also, RE: Barrichello...he wanted to run the Indy 500 this year, so his departure wasn't about the oval stuff. He was very angry that he wasn't running well. He couldn't get used to the cold tires, the brakes, and things like that. I think he was at a point in his career where he didn't want to bother with it, so he made a lot of nasty comments in the media about IndyCar (not all of which were false...their crowds do suck...) and decided to go to Stock Car Brasil. If you look at the number of years it's taken Sato to be competitive there, you can almost see why it probably wasn't on Barrichello's mind to "get used to it."

In Indycar I think he would be mid pack to top five sort of material for the first year - so much technology is not in those cars that it will take a bit to unthink it all and drive with your backside again like in Formula Ford. If he did two or more years he would become more dominant. Had Rubes stuck out another year, then I think he would have been up the front. Rubes is definately a better driver than Ryan Hunter-Reey-Reey

Yeah, off-topic, but those Andretti cars are making a lot of guys look good. Hunter-Reay, Hinchcliffe, and Andretti have no natural ability. Hunter-Reay's record was dreadful until Andretti got the advantage with the new car. Hinchcliffe spent a literal five years in the leading feeder series (Indy Lights and Atlantics) in the best equipment available, but despite being the most experienced guy in the top rides, he never won the championship in any of those five years. Andretti's just a bad driver and everyone knows that. Yet all three are contenders now that Andretti's figured it out. I'm not normally one to knock a driver for having a great ride, but it's just been a bit silly to see those three get lifted to "top driver" status. Andretti was a mid-pack team that signed mid-pack drivers and then magically turned it around (credit to them), making those mid-pack drivers look good. I may be biased, but Muñoz is the only guy on that team with real, striking natural ability, and of course he's the one who doesn't get to race for them anymore. No doubt in my mind that guys like Dixon and Pagenaud are better than the Andretti lineup; Muñoz, Newgarden, and Vautier should be in the future, too, though Muñoz may already be, having beaten all of his teammates in his very first race (the hardest race on their calendar, too). I guess that's spec-racing for you, though. One team gets a small advantage like Andretti has found, and it becomes a massive one because there's nothing to balance that out...

As for Webber in IndyCar, not so sure. Barrichello had to pay a few million of his own dollars to fund his car last year. There's just no money there and I'm not sure that even the glory of winning a waning Indy 500 justifies turning down being paid to race to go paying to race.

If Ricciardo plays his cards correct and keep his work in place, avoid unnecessary politics then we may see him in one of the top teams sooner than later - so a chance for a world title may be possible. I have seen a lot of his interviews and I think he's got the right demeanor and mental toughness.

He's my Fav young driver right now and I hope to see him succeed.

It's really, really hard to avoid politics in Toro Rosso and Red Bull's junior program.

I've always been a Vergne guy, so it's been interesting to see the two racing each other. Still hard to get a feel for who is better. Vergne's certainly looked good in the last two races, but Ricciardo's seemed a lot smoother and more consistent this year as a whole.

But given how much he has made from Formula One, money should be the least of his concerns when making a decision.

It's not that simple, though. You could live forever on F1 money if you still had a lot of it and if you were willing to lead a "normal" lifestyle. But not everyone wants to change, and if someone making a lot of money lives like they make a lot of money, making less of a lot of money will be a big shift in lifestyle. Plus, high income doesn't necessarily mean wealth. Tons of "high earners" are flat broke. That's not specific to Webber; I don't know or care what he does with his money. I just mean that you usually don't get to a point where money doesn't matter by way of making a lot of money; you get to that point through other factors (i.e. realigning priorities). Maybe money "should" be the least of his concerns, but that doesn't mean it won't be.

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You gotta feel for Massa don't you, I mean he IMO is the 2008 champion, if it wasn't for bloody glock grrrrr. And that terrible accident, it's good he has got some of that form back as it should keep his seat,all we can hope for now is a win sooner than later

The "what-if" form 2008, for me personally, isn't so much the "what if Glock's strategy hadn't been to stay out" or even the "what if Singapore 2008 had been an actual race," but rather the "what if Ferrari could manage themselves better?" Ferrari panicked. As has been posted here a few times, Räikkönen had two bad races (as if Massa's never had a bad race before :lol:) and they immediately put all resources behind Massa. Hindsight's 20/20, of course. In a normal season, that would be complimented as quick, firm decisiveness. So be it. In 2008, a year in which Massa and Hamilton both did everything they possibly could to lose the WDC rather than win it, those two bad races Räikkönen had were the least of anyone's worries. Had they still backed him, it's not unreasonable to think he clinches the WDC instead of choking on it like Massa and Hamilton did so much that year.

But, again, that's hindsight. I don't think Ferrari expected 2008 to play out the way it did. They figured two races out of the points was game over for Räikkönen because in a competitive, normal season, yeah, it might just have been. There were threats from McLaren and even BMW-Sauber at that point. It's so easy to say "Ferrari messed up" when you know the outcome, but if you think about what was going on at the time, it's not totally unwarranted. What makes it not so great, to me, though, was that Räikkönen was driving the car numbered 1. They knew he could do it. Making a decision after two races in a hotly-contested championship isn't bad, necessarily, but it seemed a little harsh for the guy who was defending his WDC.

You take the what-ifs out, though, and Massa flat lost it. Hamilton's that year's champion and he's certainly someone with the talent to do it again if the situation allows. Massa? A man of the people, maybe...he certainly drove the way the masses would! :lol:

But, no, really, he was just a lovable underdog thrust in a situation that was too good for him. That's the difference between Massa and Button, really. When you put Button in a great situation, Button is good enough to execute. When you put Massa in a great situation, it's over his ability. I think you see that now, still. Every time Alonso has a bad race, Massa has a bad race, too. You'd think, hey, Alonso's out, Massa's the number one this race, he's going to get a podium! And then he finishes twelfth. Love the guy, but it'd almost be embarrassing for F1 if he were a WDC. It's some kind of justice that it went to Hamilton because we can almost forget how lame of a WDC performance it was in 2008 by thinking about how good Hamilton actually is (it's ironic that his WDC year wasn't his best year as a driver, in my opinion).

In hindsight, they back Räikkönen that year, and I think Räikkönen wins it. But in that situation, at that time, in June 2008, I'm not sure what the decision could've been. I think I'd have given the guy a little more loyalty; of course, I often criticize Ferrari for giving too much loyalty! :lol: So, there's no winning to it. They won't do anything halfway and I guess that's fine...until you look at the last few years in the WCC, that is... ;)

As a fan, though, I'm glad 2008 played out the way it did. So thrilling. Vettel being so willing to spoil the championship just to get a better result for himself really made me respect him more. That was such a "racer" thing to do. Still the moment that really stands out in that race, even more than the finish.

(A post praising Räikkönen and Vettel. Gosh, I'm becoming the long-winded, wordy version of Brad). :lol:

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Well put, but as far as saying he would embarrass the sport being champion,hasn't that already happened? Villeneuve anybody? You hit the nail on the head though in saying when he needs to excite he usually can't,as for Hamilton the talent he has, was a huge shock for the sport, honestly when I heard he was teaming up with alonso, I thought Mclaren made a huge error there in placing a rookie against the defending double world champion. Ohh how I are my words.

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It's interesting to compare Webber's career to David Coulthard's - both played 2nd banana to a VERY good driver who experienced a lot of success (and there's a Red Bull cross over between the two). I would like to see him return to Williams or another mid-range team and help them develop a good car that could compete and be successful after he retires.

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I don't think he will go to any team unless he could win again and not have to give his toys to seb, I mean lets face it, it has been handled pretty poor between them two, seb has spat in there face and they still love him, but anyway if he doesn't end up at lotus as a straight swap for kimi then I think he will stay where he is. I know lotus want him as I read somewhere the Eric boullier was very keen to sign him if rb didn't last year, but at the same time apparently rb are NOW in talks with him. So my guess another one yr deal.

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[quote name='Massa' timestamp='1371319186' post='355337']
The "what-if" form 2008, for me personally, isn't so much the "what if Glock's strategy hadn't been to stay out" or even the "what if Singapore 2008 had been an actual race," but rather the "what if Ferrari could manage themselves better?" Ferrari panicked. As has been posted here a few times, Räikkönen had two bad races (as if Massa's never had a bad race before [img]http://www.gptoday.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]) and they immediately put all resources behind Massa. Hindsight's 20/20, of course. In a normal season, that would be complimented as quick, firm decisiveness. So be it. In 2008, a year in which Massa and Hamilton both did everything they possibly could to [i]lose[/i] the WDC rather than win it, those two bad races Räikkönen had were the least of anyone's worries. Had they still backed him, it's not unreasonable to think he clinches the WDC instead of choking on it like Massa and Hamilton did so much that year.

But, again, that's hindsight. I don't think Ferrari expected 2008 to play out the way it did. They figured two races out of the points was game over for Räikkönen because in a competitive, normal season, yeah, it might just have been. There were threats from McLaren and even BMW-Sauber at that point. It's so easy to say "Ferrari messed up" when you know the outcome, but if you think about what was going on at the time, it's not totally unwarranted. What makes it not so great, to me, though, was that Räikkönen was driving the car numbered 1. They knew he could do it. Making a decision after two races in a hotly-contested championship isn't bad, necessarily, but it seemed a little harsh for the guy who was defending his WDC.

You take the what-ifs out, though, and Massa flat lost it. Hamilton's that year's champion and he's certainly someone with the talent to do it again if the situation allows. Massa? A man of the people, maybe...he certainly drove the way the masses would! [img]http://www.gptoday.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]

But, no, really, he was just a lovable underdog thrust in a situation that was too good for him. That's the difference between Massa and Button, really. When you put Button in a great situation, Button is good enough to execute. When you put Massa in a great situation, it's over his ability. I think you see that now, still. Every time Alonso has a bad race, Massa has a bad race, too. You'd think, hey, Alonso's out, Massa's the number one this race, he's going to get a podium! And then he finishes twelfth. Love the guy, but it'd almost be embarrassing for F1 if he were a WDC. It's some kind of justice that it went to Hamilton because we can almost forget how lame of a WDC performance it was in 2008 by thinking about how good Hamilton actually is (it's ironic that his WDC year wasn't his best year as a driver, in my opinion).

In hindsight, they back Räikkönen that year, and I think Räikkönen wins it. But in that situation, at that time, in June 2008, I'm not sure what the decision could've been. I think I'd have given the guy a little more loyalty; of course, I often criticize Ferrari for giving too much loyalty! [img]http://www.gptoday.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img] So, there's no winning to it. They won't do anything halfway and I guess that's fine...until you look at the last few years in the WCC, that is... [img]http://www.gptoday.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

As a fan, though, I'm glad 2008 played out the way it did. So thrilling. Vettel being so willing to spoil the championship just to get a better result for himself really made me respect him more. That was such a "racer" thing to do. Still the moment that really stands out in that race, even more than the finish.

(A post praising Räikkönen and Vettel. Gosh, I'm becoming the long-winded, wordy version of Brad). [img]http://www.gptoday.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]
[/quote]

I agree on everything, and not just because you praised Vettel and Kimi, though that always helps :P

Though I would just say regarding Massa's 2008 form and Ferrari backing him over Raikkonen: Massa did seem quicker than Kimi that year. Of course, it leaves us with a "problem" because anybody with half a brain cell would say Kimi was a better racing driver than Massa. And Massa even at his peak never seemed at all impressive. I think part of the way to solving that "problem" is that in 2008 F1 favoured a driver like Massa, i.e. somebody who could qualify well. Even though a lot of fans don't seem to agree, we're in a golden age at the moment, and seem to have forgotten how difficult passing was that year. So a driver like Massa who used to be so strong in qualifying relative to Raikkonen (who isn't a strong qualifier generally, actually) has a good chance of beating his team mate, when you have an F1 where qualifying carries too much weight.

Now we have an F1 where a fast qualifying driver is just not enough anymore and I don't think you would find a driver like Massa, who pretty much always sucked at every other aspect even at his peak, doing so well. I know it seems super harsh to say the only reason Massa ever did well was because of the way F1 was back then, but I think there is [i]some[/i] truth in it.

Of course, the only way that's really relevant to what you said in that first paragraph is that given that that was the situation, it probably wasn't as stupid as we think to back Massa over Kimi, though I'm not saying for a minute that Ferrari actually did it for those reasons at all. So, was certainly dumb on their part because they did it for dumb reasons, but probably not actually that dumb in reality from a results point of view. Oh, and I think all of that even though I agree that backing Raikkonen probably would have yielded a WDC. Like you said, there's no winning.

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Do anybody think mark sounds a bit unmotivated? I ask this as some interviews I see,seems he is holding back from what he really thinks and always of late seems quite frustrated.

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I heard it was because he had finally learned that Pavlova was a New Zealand dessert, not an Aussie one. And Phar Lap wasn't Aussie either.

He's had quite a week of serious and harsh news, I tell you.

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Priority needs to be given to making sure Pérez and Kevin Magnussen have the resources to become the drivers they can be.

Who is Kevin Magnussen? Any relation to McLaren legend Jan?

What is WEC which people keep mentioning?

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Yeah it's his son and he is bloody quick and he is in Mclaren young driver team. I wouldn't exactly call jan a legend, his son looks like he will be alot better. WEC is world endurance championship, lemans style prototypes.

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lol Jan is only a mclaren legend in the same way that martin brundle is a mclaren legend. As is Michael Andretti! So really anyone who has driven for mclaren

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I was once near Mclaren's factory and even I am considered in many circles a Mclaren legend.

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