Clicky

Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Emmcee

Will Massa Be At Ferrari Next Season?

Recommended Posts

Do you think Felipe Massa has done enough to hold his Ferrari seat? Or is it that there will be no one better available at the time so he keeps it be default? What do you think? IMO since he has come back from his accident he is a splash in the pan compared to his old self and is too hot and cold in terms of results. His form rises has a few good races and then you start to think, maybe he is back, then the next couple or mediocre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think it's time Ferrari look elsewhere for someone who can put in a good campaign while helping Fernando.

Having said that, it would be rare to find someone with that sort of criteria willing to play a clear no. 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they were going to fire him for performance reasons they would have done it a long time ago. Clearly they keep him around for some other reason and anyway, his performances this year are much better than last year, iirc. So no logical reason to fire him now, but like I said, I don't think they're operating on logic with regard to Massa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Must be a loyalty thing with Ferrari and him similar to Alesi, maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Massa has been a Ferrari man for years, all that time he drove for Sauber they were essentially training him up so to speak for his time at Ferrari. I also think he's been given a lot of extra chances thanks to that crash he had, any other driver would have been gone if they drove the way he has in the last few years. I do agree, he does as he's told and when Alonso wants to pass he almost stops the car gets out and bows, finding anyone else who would behave that way isn't so easy. He can get good results, they're just not consistent and crashing three Friday practices running isn't going to endear him to the team.

So I guess I am saying I don't know if he'll be there, you can put an argument for it either way, but somehow I suspect he will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when Alonso wants to pass he almost stops the car gets out and bows,

Not as if that happened many times...probably not more than the times team orders were used at Macca, RBR or Lotus.

Massa will stay. I have no idea why they love him so much, but they do. And he is doing better this year, finally. As bad as he is, I doubt there are many better drivers than him at the moment for that seat. Ferrari always favored experienced drivers.

And the accident bit I never bought it. He was pretty crappy that year before the accident, never had been WDC material (he needed Lewis at his most self-sabotaging persona and a self effacing Kimi to be close to it). Yet he can be pretty good at times. He is a little bit like Trulli. He is pobably one of the nicest guys in the paddock but not a warrior with a luminous career cut short by an accident. He disputed that argument himself a trillion times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe he will be replaced, but not by a young guy since Ferrari seldom use young driver. Webber would have been perfect. May be Sutil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Massa's OK, there are many worse drivers around. He is very variable, but when he is on form, he can be quite impressive. Certainly he has been better in 2013. When he is bad though - oooh dear.

Not WDC material but I can completely understand why Ferrari like him.

Plus I'd like to know how he can do all that driving AND still be a moderator on this forum. I want to have his babies. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Massa's OK, there are many worse drivers around. He is very variable, but when he is on form, he can be quite impressive. Certainly he has been better in 2013. When he is bad though - oooh dear.

Not WDC material but I can completely understand why Ferrari like him.

Plus I'd like to know how he can do all that driving AND still be a moderator on this forum. I want to have his babies. smile.png

Oh for George's sake how naive can you be?

Can't you tell that they both aren't the same person?

The Ferrari driver isn't the real Massa! Geez!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Must be a loyalty thing with Ferrari and him similar to Alesi, maybe.

This is Ferrari we are talking about. Loyalty has no factor in it. They drove out Schumi to bring in Kimi, then drove out Kimi to bring in Alonso.

Massa is there because he serves a single purpose. Help Alonso win! That's why he's employed by them, and has confounded all our expectactions for his longevity in the team. He only had to get to a certain level of results and performance to be safe in that team.

If Ferrari were a real racing team, they would have benched Massa long ago and got a better driver. As much as a dislike Webber, I think he blew it by not going there. But his ego would have got in the way too. I think every driver should strive to be the best, but in those quite moments, those same drivers also know they are maybe not the best there is, and thus can simply do their best. That is not a failure, rather admission within themselves that while they are the best of the best, they are not the "best".

As much as I'd love to see a new driver at Ferrari, Massa will say for years provided he continues to maintain a certain level of performance. He doesn't threaten Heir Alonso in anyway, be it paddock clout, looks, height, or speed. Thus Alonso is safe in his coddled world knowing no matter how good or bad Massa is, when he's good and starts to infringe on Alonso's points and title chances, the call WILL be made to ask Massa to move aside, slow down or take a gearbox/engine change.

The real question should be asked, who was the better driver out of Massa or Rubens. Because at least that might elicit a discussion. Anything else concerning Massa and Ferrari is so plainly obvious to see. He gets paid, does his job, and might get a race win if Alonso has crashed out or coming 10th or something. Other than that, he's a minion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you think Massa would do a better job than kobayashi? Because that's who I think they should replace Massa with. He IMO was better than Perez.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kobi would be sweet, but honestly he didn't live up to his pretty awesome introduction to F1 when he was able to fill the seat at Toyota.

Perez is rubbish and I am fairly certain will not be at McLaren for a long stint. The only way that would occur would be in TelMex put in massive investment into the team.

Di Resta will not get a drive at Ferrari either. He can't control his criticism of Force India and the other teams will take note of this. Golden Rule in F1 is you don't air your dirty laundry in public, much less criticize your team over a period of time. Ferrari won't put up with that, and the drama that could unfold once he realizes here is only there to be Heir Alonso's minion. It would be fun to watch, but a car crash at the same time.

The Hulk maybe to Ferrari, but his stock has taken a dive since he went to Sauber. Sutil maybe, but then again you'd dealing with a possible same situation as Di Resta.

Webber would have been my pick, but his ego, his mouth and clear actions of not even publicly supporting his own team, would mean he wouldn't last at Ferrari either.

Button would be cool actually, even Ricci would be a good choice. He's a nice chap and has never had a bad word to say about anyone. Actually I think it's a brilliant idea, Ricci to Ferrari you've heard it here first folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Webber said RICCI was the best bet for his seat. But many don't think he is ready, but RICCI said he is and I think he is too. I think webber would have been better of takin perez's seat at Mclaren. He would fit in well with button. I don't think he would last long at Ferrari either, he would have the same issue with alonso as seb IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Webber to McLaren would have been a good move actually. I still don't believe Webber's choice to retire from F1 was something he said he made last year. I think it was something he may have brought up to Mateschitz, but was a case of I'll see how I feel during the year kind of thing. It definately feels like he's going sooner than I or we had expected him too. Despite me not liking him I did want to see him goto another team. McLaren or Lotus would have been good options, and it still could have worked at Ferrari if he was prepared to deal with the fact the only race wins he would be entitled to, would be if Alonso had crashed or was not in the running for a championship. It still could have been fun for him, but that is only if his ego and mouth were kept in check. He could have done Porsche and Le Mans after he proper retired.

Perez to McLaren is the stupidest thing I've seen in years. Heikki was a far better move all those years ago than this one. Smells of a rebound relationship, or like someone got cheated on, so goes out and sleeps with someone to get their revenge. Perez will achieve nothing at McLaren.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
I think Ferrari are far too concerned with trying to get a car good enough to launch a season-long assault on the title. Fernando has spent more time moaning about the car this year. With all the new regulations coming in next year, now is not the time to mess with the only consistent from this year to next (the drivers). You'd be hard pressed to find a better, faster driver - that is happy to be a designated number 2. The drivers are fine right now at Ferrari. It's the designers and the management that worry me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Di Resta or Hulkenberg to Ferrari next year, it's been a long time since Massa was anywhere near competitive enough and in a way he is depleting Ferrari's brand equity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see Di Resta going there rwgordan. He might be quick, but he can't keep a lid on what he says, and lately it's been a lot of negative things towards his own team. Ferrari aren't going to bring him in and destabilize Alonso's "tranquility". We all know Alonso needs to be pampered in order to do well.

Massa is now doing a good enough job to keep his seat and that's all that is required of the #2. Keep quite, move over when asked to, and to get some points in the races.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still makes the odd rookie mistake though and isn't as good as he was when he first joined Ferrari back in 2006. Webber has won everyone of his gp's since Massa has won one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, I'm not praising Massa by any means. He is pathetic in the wet and has to be one of the worst drivers for needless spins. However he also seems to be keeping Ferrari happy. Thus any potential applicant for the #2 seat at Ferrari should look at Massa and take that as a template.

In fairness to him though, he should be +1 up on his win count. But apparently Alonso was faster than him that day, and he understood ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that was wrong, felipe would have had that for sure, I guess he will keep his seat by default then, as no current driver is willing/able to do what Massa does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think it's time Ferrari look elsewhere for someone who can put in a good campaign while helping Fernando.

Having said that, it would be rare to find someone with that sort of criteria willing to play a clear no. 2

Maybe, but Alonso's older than, say, Vettel. You can almost see yourself paying your dues and getting that status one day...

...until Alonso leaves and they just turn around and hire someone else as number one. :lol:

If they were going to fire him for performance reasons they would have done it a long time ago. Clearly they keep him around for some other reason and anyway, his performances this year are much better than last year, iirc. So no logical reason to fire him now, but like I said, I don't think they're operating on logic with regard to Massa.

He's regressed from the end of 2012 by a lot. He's just better than the beginning of 2012. So it's hard to say.

But I agree. There's no logic.

Plus I'd like to know how he can do all that driving AND still be a moderator on this forum. I want to have his babies. smile.png

That's the problem; hard to be on-time for those team meetings when you have to compose another 30-paragraph post.

Massa is there because he serves a single purpose. Help Alonso win!

If Ferrari were a real racing team, they would have benched Massa long ago and got a better driver.

He doesn't server that purpose. He's done nothing to help Alonso win in quite some time. He's rarely near enough to Alonso to hold others up or to let Alonso through or anything like that. All he does is just not impede Alonso by virtue of being many positions back. He's costing Ferrari a shot at the WCC year after year, and that's the bigger goal than getting the driver a win.

You are right, though; Alonso likes Massa, and I think that's helped keep Massa around. I just don't see much of what he's done to be helpful to anyone.

To be fair to Ferrari, too, they were going to replace Massa with Kubica. The contract was there. It's unfortunate, obviously. They did try, though. They did.

So you think Massa would do a better job than kobayashi? Because that's who I think they should replace Massa with. He IMO was better than Perez.

Eh. Flashy drivers will always be rated higher than their counterparts because they make a lot of noise and play on our emotions with romantic notions of what a racing driver is. But that's not always better. They were pretty even, though, so I see the case. I just think Pérez has a lot more upside; Kobayashi, to me, is what he is and he'll always be that and it's sort of Massa-ish, honestly. Some good days, a rare great day, and a lot of "ugh" days. Pérez, on the other hand, looks like someone with a lot of potential. Someone who isn't as good as he can be yet. His progression to F1 illustrates that constant improvement and for me, that sets Pérez apart.

But even so, even if Kobayashi is better than Pérez, and I do think you can argue that, as you do, I don't think he's any better than Massa. He reminds me a lot of Massa, just with more highlights. I think something more stable would be better.

Perez is rubbish and I am fairly certain will not be at McLaren for a long stint. The only way that would occur would be in TelMex put in massive investment into the team.

I agree with a lot in your post, so I'm only going to highlight the part I don't agree with. :P

He may not be at McLaren for a long stint, but rubbish, no way. He's been keeping Jenson Button honest all season, really running hard with him, and has scored podia in F1 with Sauber. He has a lot to work on, but rubbish is just too strong of a word for him. I think he's the most exciting prospect F1 has right now.

Webber said RICCI was the best bet for his seat. But many don't think he is ready, but RICCI said he is and I think he is too. I think webber would have been better of takin perez's seat at Mclaren. He would fit in well with button. I don't think he would last long at Ferrari either, he would have the same issue with alonso as seb IMO.

The problem is, Webber and Button are both at the end of their careers. You have that driver pairing, and what, exactly, is your future? McLaren have the top two guys in FR3.5 signed up now (Stoffel Vandoorne just recently, and Kevin Magnussen for a few years), sure, but their introduction to F1 will be timed out and may start as a loan to another team (like Ricciardo at HRT...is there still a tie-up between McLaren and Marussia? I remember there had been) rather than with McLaren proper. Pérez was a risk, and we'll evaluate that outcome by season's end, but they had to take it. You can't just roll out two solid-but-not-elite drivers who are in their final years when you've lost a star like Hamilton. You have to try something. They gambled. I don't think it hasn't paid off. I think it's close to working, really.

Perez will achieve nothing at McLaren.

He's already beaten Button in races...so that's something...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear. Another strange spin from Massa. There was clearly a problem though in his car, as the way the car lurched to the right, then veered off to the left looked like a lockup or some strange issue. Thus if it was truly his gearbox going that would make sense. Why this happens to Massa is anyones guess. Maybe Ferrari put the experimental parts on his car to see if they are any quicker or better before Alonso gets them. See Massa does fill a role or a test driver!

Massa, when I stated Massa serves a role, that is said with the understanding that his results don't matter that much. He's there because he doesn't threaten Alonso in anyway, be it performances or how he relates to him. He also will move over if asked to, and will do whatever the team requires him to do. Absolutely he could do better result wise to help Ferrari win the WCC, but honestly I think Ferrari care more about the WDC. This part is clear to me otherwise they would have replaced Massa years ago if they were that keen on points for the WCC. Right now it's all about not upsetting Alonso.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Massa wants to keep his seat he's not exactly doing the right things out there on the track at the moment is he? How many more 'mistakes' are they going to accept before they decide it's time to show him the door? It's a dangerous time to keep on crashing your car right now, contract time is just around the corner and the last thing you want to do is be showing how inept you can be at times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a Massa fan, but I have seen him do far worse than he is right now, and he's still got the seat at Ferrari. I think as long as Alonso is there, Massa will be too. It has to be clear to everyone that the criteria for having Massa at Ferrari is not results or he would have been gone long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...