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Perception of, not the reality within, Kimi Räikkönen will determine how teams evaluate him.

He could be another Eddie Cheever, Jr. (well, I doubt Kimi sits under trees and writes poems that are "too personal to share," but...), who was completely misunderstood his entire career. Introversion came across as standoffishness, and no one wanted to work with him...so he started his own team and no one wanted to drive for him!

Cheever's not a jerk; everyone just thought that. I wonder how many people who have power in F1 think Räikkönen is whatever negative attribute. As long as they think it, it's an issue for him. There's no doubt that many things that make him endearing to a lot of us aren't always what sponsors want; Lotus have found a great way to sort of spin the "Kimi being Kimi" thing into something vaguely marketable, but not all teams do that.

Now, another thing to consider, with Red Bull's second seat: what about Vergne? Horner made it clear, JEV is not getting a promotion. Yet, at times, he has been more impressive than Ricciardo and, on paper, I don't think you could say he was anything less than equal. Being at STR is always temporary employment, and if the big club passes on you for what will likely be the only opening for a long time, you have no choice but to get out. Soon enough, STR will want da Costa (probably the biggest bust of the year...his motivation in FR3.5 seems to resemble that of Ricciardo's...just doesn't want to be there for another year) and Sainz (really not seeing results from him, but whatever) there. Vergne could easily be another Alguersuari or Buemi, but I think Vergne's better than those two. Ricciardo and Vergne, to me, is about the strongest pairing they ever had on that team. Would Total/Boullier like Vergne for one of the Lotus seats? Or am I just doing some wishful thinking there?

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I think every team would happily sign Kimi in the right circumstances and he's generally well liked and respected in the paddock. The perception issues are more from the fan side of things. I think one reason the perceptions of Kimi might be negative, is because fan perceptions are mostly influenced by the media. Kimi doesn't accept the premise which everybody else accepts that the media are super important, or have any right to ask certain questions, and so he doesn't have that relationship with the media. So, the media can sometimes portray him in a negative way, and sometimes that can get passed on to some fans.

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I think every team would happily sign Kimi in the right circumstances and he's generally well liked and respected in the paddock. The perception issues are more from the fan side of things. I think one reason the perceptions of Kimi might be negative, is because fan perceptions are mostly influenced by the media. Kimi doesn't accept the premise which everybody else accepts that the media are super important, or have any right to ask certain questions, and so he doesn't have that relationship with the media. So, the media can sometimes portray him in a negative way, and sometimes that can get passed on to some fans.

How does one portray "Someone should punch him in the face" in a positive manner?

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How does one portray "Someone should punch him in the face" in a positive manner?

:lol:

On the subject of Kimi, I think this year Kimi fans are even more obnoxious than the Nando and Lewis fans in the past. Nobody says Kimi sucks, well, at least not me. He is fast, he is great, he can win races and championships. We all agree. But I don't see why we should all agree that he is the most wonderful personality in the paddock. He has an extremely special personality. A guy like that might be liked by some and disliked by others. Personally, I find him sometimes funny, sometimes I sympathize with his disrespect for all PR bs, but some other times I find him simply impolite or downright rude.

As for his dedication and technical feedback, it has been an argument for ages. The usual reply is that the more technical savvy drivers "didn't develop great cars" as if the purpose of having a technical driver was for him to design the car. No, it's not. It's about how clear is his description about how the car "feels" and in some cases even giving hints about develpment. But they still depend on the team to develop the car. That is so obvious that the next guy that comes with that argument is going to be smacked with his own keyboard. :f34r:

Now, Kimi gives feedback. But you never hear about him being obsessive about practicing on the simulator or being involved with the mechanics. You hear that about Nando and Vettel. You hear that to some extent about Rosberg and Jenson. You never heard that about Kimi, or Lewis.

Does that mean that they suck? Not at all. They are still 2 of the four best drivers in the grid. They just lack that particular characteristic. And maybe "lack" is not correct, maybe the way to express it would be "their technical feedback is not as good as ..."

Oh, and the "Alonso-Santander anti Kimi" Conspiracy is, of course, as false as the theories about teams purposedly sabotaging one driver because they favour the other one. It's not even worth argumenting against it.

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I like Kimi, half hope he wins another WDC - however I can see almost Aspergers-like aspects to his character (I wonder if he does have this?) and whilst his comments/attitude may appear "fun" and "different" I can't begin to imagine what a handful he is to manage.

He can get away with this for as long as he is winning/up front but if his results go South, he may find a less sympathetic management response.

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Well, the perceptions of Kimi do seem quite skewed, though I think that's true for most drivers. But with Kimi I would guess the perception and the reality have one of the larger gaps between them, because although some people don't believe this, he obviously has a well developed public persona (no doubt an exaggeration of his actual traits, but nonetheless a persona). That isn't as clearly the case with any other driver. Funnily enough, that means our perception of Kimi is largely formed based on an exaggerated persona which is then exaggerated again by the media.

Every driver has some sort of label attached to them but people's perception of Kimi's personality seems to also influence the way they perceive his actual characteristics as a driver. Of course, people have all sorts of ideas about different drivers, but in most cases those are limited to personal attacks. The frustrating thing that colours the Kimi debate is that perceptions of what is obviously a persona go on to then influence a professional attack. You would not generally find, for example, someone saying that Vettel was an arrogant kid (as has been said), then going on to say "and that makes him a worse driver". Or ascribing the arrogance in a way that is negative professionally, like saying he was difficult to manage or work with.

You can consider some of the criticisms made of Kimi, and then ask a few simple questions to try and understand how odd that influence is or at least put the criticisms into some sort of perspective. For example, if Kimi is 1) difficult to work with and/or manage, 2) lazy, unprofessional, unintelligent, bad at technical feedback (delete as appropriate), 3) generally not able to get on with many people in life (i.e. has a divisive "personality").

How do you then manage to match that up with the following: how did he win a world championship at his chosen profession and achieve more than the vast majority of drivers ever did in F1? Why does every team seen so keen to hire him (not the case with all top drivers, e.g. Alonso and Hamilton)? Why does he always part amicably with teams (unlike Alonso and Hamilton)? Why has he never had a serious conflict with a team (unlike Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel)? How did he manage to carve out such a good lifestyle for himself despite these issues? Why do all his fellow drivers and certainly the main rivals respect him so much?

All very difficult questions for anybody who places too much stock in these boring Kimi criticisms based on a public persona. Could it possibly be that our perceptions of people we haven't met are sometimes so exaggerated that they fool us into making inferences that just don't hold up with reality? Nope, better to believe that our perceptions are right and ignore reality. So, Kimi is a lazy unprofessional guy who is difficult to work with. While you are at it, Alonso is a whiner and Vettel is just an arrogant kid. No need for nuance here!

Now, above I said "too much stock". That part was important. There may well be grains of truth to some of our perceptions or criticisms, some grains larger or smaller than others. I would say, for example, that there is more truth that Kimi is lazy in that there is in Vettel being a "spoilt brat" or Alonso being a whiner. The thing to remember is they are just grains of truth, and always to be treated as such and never as complete judgements of someone's character. If you think like that, then you can be cautious about having a completely fixed, caricatured view of a driver. Caricatures are fun when you are quickly trying to make subtle distinctions between drivers. They are useful when you are saying, for example, that Lewis is faster than Button or Alonso is more complete than Vettel, and most people will understand you are talking broadly about what is actually a very small difference. But where caricatures fail is in accurately describing or evaluating a driver and forming a more complex picture about them.

Especially when reality appears to differ, and there is nothing more arrogant than ignoring reality. Happily, the reality is fan perceptions of Kimi are in a few cases wrong, and in all cases completely irrelevant to whether a team wants to sign him. Paddock perceptions count more and as far as we can tell from history, those are perfectly good.

Obnoxious Kimi fan, signing off.

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laugh.png

On the subject of Kimi, I think this year Kimi fans are even more obnoxious than the Nando and Lewis fans in the past. Nobody says Kimi sucks, well, at least not me. He is fast, he is great, he can win races and championships. We all agree. But I don't see why we should all agree that he is the most wonderful personality in the paddock. He has an extremely special personality. A guy like that might be liked by some and disliked by others. Personally, I find him sometimes funny, sometimes I sympathize with his disrespect for all PR bs, but some other times I find him simply impolite or downright rude.

As for his dedication and technical feedback, it has been an argument for ages. The usual reply is that the more technical savvy drivers "didn't develop great cars" as if the purpose of having a technical driver was for him to design the car. No, it's not. It's about how clear is his description about how the car "feels" and in some cases even giving hints about develpment. But they still depend on the team to develop the car. That is so obvious that the next guy that comes with that argument is going to be smacked with his own keyboard. :f34r:

Now, Kimi gives feedback. But you never hear about him being obsessive about practicing on the simulator or being involved with the mechanics. You hear that about Nando and Vettel. You hear that to some extent about Rosberg and Jenson. You never heard that about Kimi, or Lewis.

Does that mean that they suck? Not at all. They are still 2 of the four best drivers in the grid. They just lack that particular characteristic. And maybe "lack" is not correct, maybe the way to express it would be "their technical feedback is not as good as ..."

Oh, and the "Alonso-Santander anti Kimi" Conspiracy is, of course, as false as the theories about teams purposedly sabotaging one driver because they favour the other one. It's not even worth argumenting against it.

Actually, you do hear about Lewis using the simulator quite a bit.

And we all should agree that Kimi is the best personality. Anybody who doesn't get his personality is, quite frankly, stupid. obviously, I can see why you struggle with his personality :whistling::eekout:

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I like Kimi, half hope he wins another WDC - however I can see almost Aspergers-like aspects to his character (I wonder if he does have this?) and whilst his comments/attitude may appear "fun" and "different" I can't begin to imagine what a handful he is to manage.

He can get away with this for as long as he is winning/up front but if his results go South, he may find a less sympathetic management response.

I think the opposite, actually. I would imagine as long as you can strike an understanding, he would be a doddle. I don't think he is anywhere near as fickle as the Lewis, Alonso or Vettels of this world, so basically what you get with Kimi is always what you get.

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As for his dedication and technical feedback, it has been an argument for ages. The usual reply is that the more technical savvy drivers "didn't develop great cars" as if the purpose of having a technical driver was for him to design the car. No, it's not. It's about how clear is his description about how the car "feels" and in some cases even giving hints about develpment. But they still depend on the team to develop the car. That is so obvious that the next guy that comes with that argument is going to be smacked with his own keyboard. Now, Kimi gives feedback. But you never hear about him being obsessive about practicing on the simulator or being involved with the mechanics. You hear that about Nando and Vettel. You hear that to some extent about Rosberg and Jenson. You never heard that about Kimi, or Lewis.

Also borne from the fact that he feels nauseaus when using the simulator, Kimi's too good to use it anywaywhistling.gif

Oh, and the "Alonso-Santander anti Kimi" Conspiracy is, of course, as false as the theories about teams purposedly sabotaging one driver because they favour the other one. It's not even worth argumenting against it.

There is some grain of truth to it certainly, especially if you're taken the fact that Alonso signed a contract with Ferrari due to his Santander association, while Kimi still had a few years left with his contract!!! Can we think about it??? Also, the article I spoke to you all about when Kimi joined Ferrari, 2007, and Peter Windsor predicted Michael as advisor to foresee a role in assisting his then protege Massa. All this a year before it started happening!!! So I really don't know how to drive this point into your heads, I have spoken about this on various occasions? It did'nt turn out as conspiracy theory, this was a complete fact!

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Actually, you do hear about Lewis using the simulator quite a bit.

And we all should agree that Kimi is the best personality. Anybody who doesn't get his personality is, quite frankly, stupid. obviously, I can see why you struggle with his personality whistling.gifeekout.gif

Exactly!

:eusa_think:

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Why is there so many kimi fans? IMO he is boring, has the odd good race but once again IMO, isn't much different between him and webber. Have to have the best car on the day to do the job. Only just won his title due to selfishness between the two Mclaren drivers that year, he is good but not great. Ill just wait for the flame throwing to begin.

tumblr_m632tpTbh21rqfhi2o1_500.gif

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Why is there so many kimi fans? IMO he is boring, has the odd good race but once again IMO, isn't much different between him and webber. Have to have the best car on the day to do the job. Only just won his title due to selfishness between the two Mclaren drivers that year, he is good but not great. Ill just wait for the flame throwing to begin.

tumblr_m632tpTbh21rqfhi2o1_500.gif

For starters, I hope you'r not a fan of wrestling...

2nd, It's pure blashemous putting Webber in the same league as Kimi! 3rd last year in what would seem the 4th best car. Where was Webber? 5th, seems to love hanging down 4-5th in the championship standings with the best car! Please, don't ever do that again!

As for his abilties in an F1 racing car, there's too many quotes on his natural abiltity to extract the most out of a car from team personnel to start lecturing you about...

edit: and he won the most races in 2007 to put him in a position to win the title, if it was'nt for recurring engine blowups in a fragile 2005 car would have have at least won 2 titles aready.

Curious, Just when did you become an F1 fan?? To me the q is really dumb...

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Kimi is a bad fit for RBR. He's bone idle and horribly non-technical. He's a sociopathic hot-shoe with a screw loose. For me, Jenson is a perfect replacement. He is easy to get along with, handles the PR well, is seriously quick in a great car, has technical savvy and is a sound strategist in the car. If they want double podiums, he's the 'go-to' guy in my opinion. For me, Ricciardo is still a rough diamond and he needs a couple more seasons chasing the pack but he is rapid.

Can't agree more! well said about Kimi, but he is a bloody good driver, even if he hates being told what to do :-). As for Jenson, well he sure would be a good fit at RBR and I reckon would be able to teach Seb a few tricks about tyres as well

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For starters, I hope you'r not a fan of wrestling...

2nd, It's pure blashemous putting Webber in the same league as Kimi! 3rd last year in what would seem the 4th best car. Where was Webber? 5th, seems to love hanging down 4-5th in the championship standings with the best car! Please, don't ever do that again!

As for his abilties in an F1 racing car, there's too many quotes on his natural abiltity to extract the most out of a car from team personnel to start lecturing you about...

edit: and he won the most races in 2007 to put him in a position to win the title, if it was'nt for recurring engine blowups in a fragile 2005 car would have have at least won 2 titles aready.

Curious, Just when did you become an F1 fan?? To me the q is really dumb...

Come on mate settle down, this is just my opinion, honestly he has won two gp since his return, you telling me he is doing a better job than what kubica or even how heidfeld and petrov where in early 2011, he is good but IN MY OPINION not great. I've never held him as a "great" driver, but just because I like webber I don't hold him as a "great" driver there, letting you know so you don't accuse me of playing favourites. Just speaking my mind mate, plus I work with Sam michaels brother who is a crane operator in the building industry thought he was full of it, till he brings me in a williams bmw official mechanic shirts and just got a mclaren one a few months ago. he meets him in melbourne every year apparently and he has told me personally that kimi is a such and such. Doesn't like to help the mechanics much with input, turns up late to team briefings if he decides to show and bags team to other members he considers friends in the pitlane. But he has also said webber is quite as vocal in the garage as he is out of it. So it's just my opinion.

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There's no doubt that when Kimi is 'on it' he's hard to beat as a driver. He has won some good races and he is a former world champion which proves he's no slouch. On the other hand, as a person I tend to think Kimi only does what Kimi wants to, when he wants to do it. Is F1 better with him or without him? Well I didn't particularly miss him when he wasn't there but he's done much better on his return than I expected as well. The Lotus is far from the best car and I'd say he's done better with it than many others might be able to.

Do I like him? Can't say I do that much, but then I don't dislike him either, he's a character that's for sure and you certainly can't ignore him.

I remember early in his career when he was qualifying in Spa, there had been a spin or an accident up ahead and the track was thick with smoke, he never lifted off as he went through it. I wasn't sure then if he was stupid or very brave to do that, I'm still not sure to this day.

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There's no doubt that when Kimi is 'on it' he's hard to beat as a driver. He has won some good races and he is a former world champion which proves he's no slouch. On the other hand, as a person I tend to think Kimi only does what Kimi wants to, when he wants to do it. Is F1 better with him or without him? Well I didn't particularly miss him when he wasn't there but he's done much better on his return than I expected as well. The Lotus is far from the best car and I'd say he's done better with it than many others might be able to.

Do I like him? Can't say I do that much, but then I don't dislike him either, he's a character that's for sure and you certainly can't ignore him.

I remember early in his career when he was qualifying in Spa, there had been a spin or an accident up ahead and the track was thick with smoke, he never lifted off as he went through it. I wasn't sure then if he was stupid or very brave to do that, I'm still not sure to this day.

Yeah quite true aswell your post, I'd have to agree, I also remeber him at spa now you mention it, I remember Martin saying at the time it wasn't much different to how the corner is anyway as its blind.

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Just speaking my mind mate, plus I work with Sam michaels brother who is a crane operator in the building industry

Ahh, in case nobody got it when you compared Kimi to Webber, you just made the troll too obvious now! laugh.png

To stay on the off-topic, Kimi's just a very private person, very stereotypical Finn in that regard. It makes him seem cold, stand-offis and rude, but I don't think that's who he really is. There was a nice quote from Button on this last year (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/17/kimi-raikkonen-f1-us-grand-prix):

"I don't speak to him very often because I don't normally get an answer. He's a man of few words. But I flew back from Korea to Japan with him recently and I had a couple of beers with him and he opened up. He's a good guy."

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Ahh, in case nobody got it when you compared Kimi to Webber, you just made the troll too obvious now! laugh.png

To stay on the off-topic, Kimi's just a very private person, very stereotypical Finn in that regard. It makes him seem cold, stand-offis and rude, but I don't think that's who he really is. There was a nice quote from Button on this last year (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/17/kimi-raikkonen-f1-us-grand-prix):

"I don't speak to him very often because I don't normally get an answer. He's a man of few words. But I flew back from Korea to Japan with him recently and I had a couple of beers with him and he opened up. He's a good guy."

So iam a troll because I don't like kimi and you don't believe me? Well good on ya.

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So iam a troll because I don't like kimi and you don't believe me? Well good on ya.

No, I quite honestly thought that to cite "friend who's a brother of this and that" is the universal "i'm just trolling" sign, especially since I've got no idea why Sam Michael's brother would have any insight into how Kimi works with his team and mechanics. As far as I know, even Sam Michaels himself has never worked with Kimi. I rather believe those who have actually worked with him.

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No, I quite honestly thought that to cite "friend who's a brother of this and that" is the universal "i'm just trolling" sign, especially since I've got no idea why Sam Michael's brother would have any insight into how Kimi works with his team and mechanics. As far as I know, even Sam Michaels himself has never worked with Kimi. I rather believe those who have actually worked with him.

Well i asked him the same question and he told me that kimi talks to alot of people and apparently Sam heard it somewhere I guess and told his brother, he also stated that Schumacher had huge pull behind the closed doors due to his success and popularity. This is all what I have been told so your right it's second hand info but at the same time I thought it was worth mentioning. So I dare say Sam Michael would hear alot of stuff about drivers than we or press would know simply by being in the same pitlane. As for kimi I just don't really like him and that's my opinion, basically because his attitude IMO comes accross as that he doesn't really care about this and that, when id kill to have his job. Even hakkinen was a little more approachable and a BIT more talkative.

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As for kimi I just don't really like him and that's my opinion, basically because his attitude IMO comes accross as that he doesn't really care about this and that, when id kill to have his job. Even hakkinen was a little more approachable and a BIT more talkative.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, and I agree that it'd be nice if he was a bit more approachable to the fans during the race weekends (though to be honest, I do not have first hand experience on how approachable any of the drivers are), but I'm also sure public appearances like that really are very uncomfortable to him. In the end, he is sought after, and hired, for driving fast, and he does that pretty darn well. It's a bit silly to try to deny that he's one of the best F1 racers of the past couple of decades just because you don't like his attitude. Comparing him to Petrov, Heidfeld and Webber does not make one look like someone who knows what he's talking about... just imo.

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You are certainly entitled to that opinion, and I agree that it'd be nice if he was a bit more approachable to the fans during the race weekends (though to be honest, I do not have first hand experience on how approachable any of the drivers are), but I'm also sure public appearances like that really are very uncomfortable to him. In the end, he is sought after, and hired, for driving fast, and he does that pretty darn well. It's a bit silly to try to deny that he's one of the best F1 racers of the past couple of decades just because you don't like his attitude. Comparing him to Petrov, Heidfeld and Webber does not make one look like someone who knows what he's talking about... just imo.

I didn't say he wasn't good, but he is not great, Mika hakkinen was better IMO. But in this day and age you have to be approachable . My comparison to webber, heidfeld and petrov, was due to the fact the the lotus he has had is better than the Renault that kubica,heidfeld and petrov drove and his results arnt much different. Yeah he has won a couple if GPS but so would have kubica IMO if he was still driving. As for the webber comparison, he gets similar results to webber in a similar car. As I don't think his and vettel's are the same and this yrs lotus isn't far of the rb IMO. Iam just saying how it is and how I see it that is all. So people who want to flame me go right ahead after all it's solely my opinion and no one has the right to scrutinise me for that as I respect everyone else's opinion.

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