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Yeah quite true aswell your post, I'd have to agree, I also remeber him at spa now you mention it, I remember Martin saying at the time it wasn't much different to how the corner is anyway as its blind.

Far be it from me to disagree with our Martin, but I think there's a bit of a difference between a blind corner and a blind corner with a chuffin' big plume of dust on it.

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Far be it from me to disagree with our Martin, but I think there's a bit of a difference between a blind corner and a blind corner with a chuffin' big plume of dust on it.

Well yes true, but we know what he means, relatively speaking.

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Well yes true, but we know what he means, relatively speaking.

I am not sure I do, to be honest. Blind corner is normal, blind corner with plume of dust means something has changed. To quote Martin himself, he must have had brain fade when he said that :lol:

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My comparison to webber, heidfeld and petrov, was due to the fact the the lotus he has had is better than the Renault that kubica,heidfeld and petrov drove and his results arnt much different. Yeah he has won a couple if GPS but so would have kubica IMO if he was still driving. As for the webber comparison, he gets similar results to webber in a similar car. As I don't think his and vettel's are the same and this yrs lotus isn't far of the rb IMO.

I just don't see any facts supporting this kind of view (apart from Kubica, I think he was very good and could've been at least close to Kimi's level). I think most things point to Lotus being fast because Kimi is driving it. Grosjean is generally considered very talented and fast, won practically every junior category he took part in and I certainly rank him much better than Petrov and around the same level as Heidfeld; he finished last years WDC 8th (less than half of Kimi's points), and lies 8th this year (less than half of Kimi's points). Why hasn't he done a lot better if the car is so good? You don't have to like Kimi, and I even understand the reasons you have for that, but don't let that cloud your appreciation of his talent, it will just detract your enjoyment of F1.

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I just don't see any facts supporting this kind of view (apart from Kubica, I think he was very good and could've been at least close to Kimi's level). I think most things point to Lotus being fast because Kimi is driving it. Grosjean is generally considered very talented and fast, won practically every junior category he took part in and I certainly rank him much better than Petrov and around the same level as Heidfeld; he finished last years WDC 8th (less than half of Kimi's points), and lies 8th this year (less than half of Kimi's points). Why hasn't he done a lot better if the car is so good? You don't have to like Kimi, and I even understand the reasons you have for that, but don't let that cloud your appreciation of his talent, it will just detract your enjoyment of F1.

Grosjean hasn't scored as many point because he hasn't finished as many races, or he's been held back by damage from his habit of coming together with other drivers. He can be fast but he has to learn to stop crashing into people so much. He's better this year than last year, but that's not saying much is it? He's had three non finishes this season, Kimi has none.

Not that I'm trying to put Kimi down at all, just saying that is why Grosjean isn't showing up as being as fast I would say.

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I just don't see any facts supporting this kind of view (apart from Kubica, I think he was very good and could've been at least close to Kimi's level). I think most things point to Lotus being fast because Kimi is driving it. Grosjean is generally considered very talented and fast, won practically every junior category he took part in and I certainly rank him much better than Petrov and around the same level as Heidfeld; he finished last years WDC 8th (less than half of Kimi's points), and lies 8th this year (less than half of Kimi's points). Why hasn't he done a lot better if the car is so good? You don't have to like Kimi, and I even understand the reasons you have for that, but don't let that cloud your appreciation of his talent, it will just detract your enjoyment of F1.

Iam not forgetting how good he is. He is good meaning alot better than the average driver but not a great I've seen him do some awesome things, like this Kimi-skillz.gif but he is just a good driver IMO, like angelica said grosjean has had a few dnfs and has some serious pace and seems to be quite quick in qualify . Kimi just comes accross to me as a jerk, but that's my opinion and I don't take that away from him when it comes to his driving. As I said before he is a good driver meaning better than most but not great. I hold alonso higher as I Beleive he is the fastest driver in f1. Hamilton I believe is quicker too.

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WebRic there are alot of stupidities in your posts on this page. Too many to repsond to all of them. If you want to be considered as someone who puts in good points in discussions, then comparing Kimi to Petrov, Kubica and Webber won't get you anywhere, other than people simply skipping your posts. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but there are also commonly held views on this as well. For instance as much as I dislike Alonso and Hamilton, I can still see their talent. I don't then compare them to Heikki, Massa or Ralfie. If you don't like a driver that is fine, we all have drivers we don't like, but don't let that cloud your vision of a driver when the majority of people on here can put that "hate" aside and see a drivers real talent and merit.

Kimi is a Spa legend. Him going through that smoke only adds to it. It wasn't so much him even going through the smoke that was epic, but the fact he didn't lift off during it. Thus he went through at 100% throttle. I recall this is what amazed the commentators at the time. Had he not spun out in the wet in the final laps of 2008 he'd have another Spa win and would have nearly locked down all the wins in close to a decade. There are many great moments of Kimi at Spa, the smoke incident is now one of folklore.

As for this Sam Michel business, mate there aren't many people on this forum who respect the guy at all. He's brought nothing but bad news for Williams and the team is far weaker now than when he first worked for the team. And then... McLaren hire him. And we are seeing the fruits of that partnership playing out. It doesn't matter to me if you work with Sam's brother or not. The point being is that there is far more verifiable evidence from Kimi's past work mates that he was great to work with. He's never had beef with a team mate, nor a team, even Ferrari. Other than the nutter Montezemolo who said some petty things concerning Kimi to the press, whilst other Ferrari workers said things contradictory that Kimi was great to work with, I rather got the impression he was simply posturing to the media and laying down a welcome mat for Alonso.

Kimi is a wanted man in F1. Thus the BS about him being unmotivated is proven yet again to be false. The false information and rumors about him not able to give good technical feedback is also seriously questioned. And Kimi now holds the record for the longest amount of consecutive races finished in the points. You only have to look at who else is on that list to see how good an indication of talent that really is.

Kimi is not the greatest, I don't think even his most ardent supporters will utter this, but he is a great make no mistake about that. The Kubica's, the Heidfelds, the Petrovs, the Massas, the Ralfies, the Trullis, the Fisis... they are not in the same league. They are in a lower level of greatness in my view. So if you want to hold any credibility on this forum, keep posting by all means, but temper that hate for a driver to the point it makes you say things others on here see as either trolling due to how off and misguided it is, or show your understanding of F1 isn't at a level to where you should be discussing these topics anyway.

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This: http://www.gptoday.c...dmits_Boullier/ might explain why Kimi may chose to leave Renault.

Not much fun for him if they are delaying paying him...

Good find mate. I've posted this before someplace else on these forums, but there have been quite a few red flags coming up with Lotus. Going back even to why they still call themselves Lotus, when Lotus don't even pay a cent of sponsorship. To them recording the biggest financial loss for a F1 team ever last year. To mentions of new title sponsors (Honeywell), only for it to never eventuate, to the mob called "Infinity Racing" who apparently bought into the team, with Lotus releasing a press release announcing it, to them releasing another press release weeks later stating this wasn't the case. Plus add in the rumors of more financial issues at the team, of them losing Allison and the writing it starting to clearly show on the wall.

I know they want to keep Kimi, and let's say they could actually pay his salary which for sure will be more than they are paying now, where is the money to then develop the car? They might actually be that type of team that instead of putting money into their car and developing/improving the car, instead give most of that money to their driver. This way they keep their sponsors, but don't make any inroads or improvements up the grid.

Now I've been critical of Lotus last year due to their inability to make any inroads or improvements on their car that move them up the grid. This year I feel will be exactly the same. Thus they start the year with a really great car, but essentially it's still the same car by the end of the year. It's not that they don't have the talent? (an open question mark now due to Allison leaving), they simply don't have the funds to push through the changes.

Kimi's already stated his decision on who he drives for next year might be considered stupid to others. At this point I just can't see him staying at Lotus. If they are struggling now, then next year will put them out of business due to the new rule changes. This year was meant as a breather for the teams, and thus the rule changes and design changes from last year were minimal. Thus they will be off the grid next year if something doesn't happen soon. Thus for me it's either McLaren (bad choice, but he will get paid), RBR, Ferrari or Merc. There is simply no way on this earth he is going to drive a Williams, a Force India or a Sauber.

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WebRic there are alot of stupidities in your posts on this page. Too many to repsond to all of them. If you want to be considered as someone who puts in good points in discussions, then comparing Kimi to Petrov, Kubica and Webber won't get you anywhere, other than people simply skipping your posts. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but there are also commonly held views on this as well. For instance as much as I dislike Alonso and Hamilton, I can still see their talent. I don't then compare them to Heikki, Massa or Ralfie. If you don't like a driver that is fine, we all have drivers we don't like, but don't let that cloud your vision of a driver when the majority of people on here can put that "hate" aside and see a drivers real talent and merit.

Kimi is a Spa legend. Him going through that smoke only adds to it. It wasn't so much him even going through the smoke that was epic, but the fact he didn't lift off during it. Thus he went through at 100% throttle. I recall this is what amazed the commentators at the time. Had he not spun out in the wet in the final laps of 2008 he'd have another Spa win and would have nearly locked down all the wins in close to a decade. There are many great moments of Kimi at Spa, the smoke incident is now one of folklore.

As for this Sam Michel business, mate there aren't many people on this forum who respect the guy at all. He's brought nothing but bad news for Williams and the team is far weaker now than when he first worked for the team. And then... McLaren hire him. And we are seeing the fruits of that partnership playing out. It doesn't matter to me if you work with Sam's brother or not. The point being is that there is far more verifiable evidence from Kimi's past work mates that he was great to work with. He's never had beef with a team mate, nor a team, even Ferrari. Other than the nutter Montezemolo who said some petty things concerning Kimi to the press, whilst other Ferrari workers said things contradictory that Kimi was great to work with, I rather got the impression he was simply posturing to the media and laying down a welcome mat for Alonso.

Kimi is a wanted man in F1. Thus the BS about him being unmotivated is proven yet again to be false. The false information and rumors about him not able to give good technical feedback is also seriously questioned. And Kimi now holds the record for the longest amount of consecutive races finished in the points. You only have to look at who else is on that list to see how good an indication of talent that really is.

Kimi is not the greatest, I don't think even his most ardent supporters will utter this, but he is a great make no mistake about that. The Kubica's, the Heidfelds, the Petrovs, the Massas, the Ralfies, the Trullis, the Fisis... they are not in the same league. They are in a lower level of greatness in my view. So if you want to hold any credibility on this forum, keep posting by all means, but temper that hate for a driver to the point it makes you say things others on here see as either trolling due to how off and misguided it is, or show your understanding of F1 isn't at a level to where you should be discussing these topics anyway.

Mate don't blow up your dress because I don't agree with you so fnn what, it's my opinion and like you I don't care what you really think as you keep going on and on about it even though I partially agree with you, it's my opinion and just because you have a kimi avatar doesn't make you his personal security team. Mate people arnt always going to like what your obsessed with so deal with it. Gee whizz so much for stating an opinion. How dare you state my opinion trolling, get over yourself mate geez, can't Beleive if your a grown man your arguing over someone disagreeing with you, it's kind of pathetic and childish IMO. I've been pretty kind on some things said about webber on here being a fan, if I acted like you did I would be banned by now.

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Mate don't blow up your dress because I don't agree with you so fnn what, it's my opinion and like you I don't care what you really think as you keep going on and on about it even though I partially agree with you, it's my opinion and just because you have a kimi avatar doesn't make you his personal security team. Mate people arnt always going to like what your obsessed with so deal with it. Gee whizz so much for stating an opinion. How dare you state my opinion trolling, get over yourself mate geez, can't Beleive if your a grown man your arguing over someone disagreeing with you, it's kind of pathetic and childish IMO. I've been pretty kind on some things said about webber on here being a fan, if I acted like you did I would be banned by now.

Get a grip and some proper perspective, then your opinion won't sound like it does...

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Get a grip and some proper perspective, then your opinion won't sound like it does...

That's what it is an opinion, doesn't mean you have to agree with it, seems I touched a nerve there mate, shouldn't be on a forum if you can't take critisism or take other people's perspective for a change if you expect them to take yours. Common courtesy.

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That's what it is an opinion, doesn't mean you have to agree with it, seems I touched a nerve there mate, shouldn't be on a forum if you can't take critisism or take other people's perspective for a change if you expect them to take yours. Common courtesy.

Agreed

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Hmm. I'm in Sweden now where there is a lot of gossip about a revival of the Swedish GP. I think there were six in the 70s at what is now the Anderstorp Raceway in the west of the country. I remember the infamous Brabham fan car debut and of course, the late, great Ronnie Peterson. If anyone could hold a candle up to Ayrton, it was Ronnie. Jody Sheckter told me that. It all ended in 1978 when RP lost his life at Monza and Gunnar Nilsson succumbed to testicular cancer. Tragic. There is no real Swedish interest in F1 nowadays. Touring cars and rallying, yes but where is the next Stefan Johansson or Jo Bonnier coming from?

Anyway, back to the future. I can actually picture Nando at RBR and a complete clear out at Maranello. If I was Ldm I would certainly bring in Ricciardo or the Hulk. It's what the team needs - youth and speed. OK, the team needs a 'Daddy'. I hear you. Well, there is always JB. It's all pretty fanciful to some ears but the Ldm rebuke is probably the beginning of the end and its a long time since their last WCC.

I also believe Michelin will be back next year and NJ won't make the calendar. My other prediction? Toto Wolff replaces Bernie at CVC.

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Now we have Kimi / Ricardio / Alonso / and the rest of the field all trying to get a Red Bull seat :-) OH and for those that haven't noticed before Red Bull do NOT make Cars :-)

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Now we have Kimi / Ricardio / Alonso / and the rest of the field all trying to get a Red Bull seat :-) OH and for those that haven't noticed before Red Bull do NOT make Cars :-)

No, Red Bull make unhealthy 'energy' drinks but Red Bull Racing manufacture Adrian Newey- designed F1 cars and every driver wants to be in one.

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Except Webbo.

I've not heard anything about Anderstorp coming back, but would welcome the return of a proper circuit.

Apropos nothing much, Sean, I saw you on BBC4 a few weeks back. I hope you sacked the hairdresser.....

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Hmm. I'm in Sweden now where there is a lot of gossip about a revival of the Swedish GP. I think there were six in the 70s at what is now the Anderstorp Raceway in the west of the country. I remember the infamous Brabham fan car debut and of course, the late, great Ronnie Peterson. If anyone could hold a candle up to Ayrton, it was Ronnie. Jody Sheckter told me that. It all ended in 1978 when RP lost his life at Monza and Gunnar Nilsson succumbed to testicular cancer. Tragic. There is no real Swedish interest in F1 nowadays. Touring cars and rallying, yes but where is the next Stefan Johansson or Jo Bonnier coming from?

Anyway, back to the future. I can actually picture Nando at RBR and a complete clear out at Maranello. If I was Ldm I would certainly bring in Ricciardo or the Hulk. It's what the team needs - youth and speed. OK, the team needs a 'Daddy'. I hear you. Well, there is always JB. It's all pretty fanciful to some ears but the Ldm rebuke is probably the beginning of the end and its a long time since their last WCC.

I also believe Michelin will be back next year and NJ won't make the calendar. My other prediction? Toto Wolff replaces Bernie at CVC.

If all that happens as you said it will, I might be asking you for some lottery number recommendations ;) What you say does make sense in many ways though.

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Except Webbo.

I've not heard anything about Anderstorp coming back, but would welcome the return of a proper circuit.

Apropos nothing much, Sean, I saw you on BBC4 a few weeks back. I hope you sacked the hairdresser.....

Stop the press! Everybody's favorite ape is back!

And so is Russ.

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Except Webbo.

I've not heard anything about Anderstorp coming back, but would welcome the return of a proper circuit.

Apropos nothing much, Sean, I saw you on BBC4 a few weeks back. I hope you sacked the hairdresser.....

Ah,ha! very funny. I have really missed your sublime jibes. Where the hell have you been, laddo...

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Oh, you know how it is. One day you just forget to turn up. And then life bites you on the arse and it takes a while to get back on an even keel. Nice to be back, chaps. I see you've lured in some more unfortunate souls while I've been gone...

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Oh, you know how it is. One day you just forget to turn up. And then life bites you on the arse and it takes a while to get back on an even keel. Nice to be back, chaps. I see you've lured in some more unfortunate souls while I've been gone...

Hush! They still have respect this forum...the suckers!

Oh, and don't mention soylent green around them. Yet.

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Oh, you know how it is. One day you just forget to turn up. And then life bites you on the arse and it takes a while to get back on an even keel. Nice to be back, chaps. I see you've lured in some more unfortunate souls while I've been gone...

What is a life please? Where do you go to get one?

Welcome back :)

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In the words of the great Keith Reid, "Life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

Ta muchly for the welcome back, recent person.tiphat.gif

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That's what it is an opinion, doesn't mean you have to agree with it, seems I touched a nerve there mate, shouldn't be on a forum if you can't take critisism or take other people's perspective for a change if you expect them to take yours. Common courtesy.

There's nothing in your most recent posts that extend any courtesy to others, so best to quit now about trying to take the moral ground. It's you who can't take any criticism and then resort to losing the plot. I have kids, I know all about temper tantrums. Most certainly I have every right to agree and disagree with what you say. The same goes for yourself and everyone else here. But regardless of what you say, how you say it and relate to others is more important, and that is where you are failing.

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