Quiet One 15 Report post Posted July 29, 2013 I know you didn't mean it in a derisive way. I just don't think he is as political as people think, either in a derisive sense or any other. Now, for something completely different: Ferrari and RoGro penalised. Romain, for his pass on Felipe and collision with Button (I think the incident with Button was either a racing incident or more on Jenson's side to blame as he went for the gap that didn't exist and then bumped RG on his way back). Ferrari for...Alonso! He used the DRS illegaly 3 times, but as it seems that it was a setup error from the team, that he only gained a second on the whole race and that because the team when they noticed allowed him to use the DRS only when they told him so they only got a fine. As for Romain and Massa. Felipinho himself defended the Frenchman: http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/459844/Massa_Grosjean_penalty_completely_wrong/ Now, Massa might be worthless as a driver, but at least he is honest. He would make a great steward. I hope he retires soon so he can become one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Shadow 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2013 Alonso a political manipulator of F1? I don't see aything wrong with that. He is not breaking any rules that he and every single one of his competitors also ascribe to. In my opinion, people view him as manipulative because he's probably the most intelligent of the current F1 crop. And manipulator is just a label people use to attack someone who has given thought, planned out and executed a great plan. About Massa's comments on Grosjean's penalty, Massa has always been more than a fair guy. I remember when he had that collision with Hamilton in Singapore 2011, he walked up to Hamilton, patted him on the back and said "Good Job!". What a nice young man!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted July 29, 2013 I thought the Button incident at the chicane was RG's fault. The Massa pass was a good pass as far as I can tell, and if he really didn't have all four wheels off the track then there's no basis for a penalty, not even a technical one. Of course, the problem Grosjean has is he's been involved in so many incidents he's likely to attract attention and have decisions go against him. That's not fair but it is life. It might take a while for the "Grosjean effect" to wear off, but for that to happen he has to be absolutely clean for a number of races, more so than other drivers even; he was not absolutely clean today, in regard to Button, or at the start (as Alonso also pointed out, iirc). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2013 I thought the Button incident at the chicane was RG's fault. The Massa pass was a good pass as far as I can tell, and if he really didn't have all four wheels off the track then there's no basis for a penalty, not even a technical one. Of course, the problem Grosjean has is he's been involved in so many incidents he's likely to attract attention and have decisions go against him. That's not fair but it is life. It might take a while for the "Grosjean effect" to wear off, but for that to happen he has to be absolutely clean for a number of races, more so than other drivers even; he was not absolutely clean today, in regard to Button, or at the start (as Alonso also pointed out, iirc). I have to agree here, although grosjean was far enough along side, he just plain and simply pushed jenson of the circuit, jenson had no where to go. Grosjean deserved the penalty there as he failed to leave the required one car width. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2013 What he said. The boy is definitely lacking in the spatial awareness department. That's twice he misjudged the width of the track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted July 30, 2013 What he said. The boy is definitely lacking in the spatial awareness department. That's twice he misjudged the width of the track. HAHAHAAHAHA mg, GOOD TO SEE YA! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Massa 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2013 I enjoyed it. Whenever a Mercedes is leading a Grand Prix, I assume the lead will change, so that keeps me excited. I thought it would be Grosjean's race, but then that fell apart. So, I thought it would be Webber's race, but they switched strategies on him, perhaps out of the impossibility of getting ~20 laps (they pitted at 43, but could have gone to 50, I believe) on the soft tires...but even then, he wasn't out of it, until they held him until 10 to go to put on those softs. It was obvious, then, that they were just trying to get him behind Vettel, which is perfectly fair, I think. Webber was losing time to Hamilton for quite a few laps before they finally brought him in, which illustrated that the goal was not to get Webber the best possible result. Webber would have lost less time to Hamilton/Räikkönen/Vettel if he came in around 13-14 to go for those softs, and would have had more laps to make up that smaller gap without the worry of wear (they did ~11 on the first stint of softs with Vettel on heavy fuel, so 13-14 was realistic). Probably still don't get Hamilton on anything less than gaining a stop on him, but a better result for Webber. Nevertheless, they got a good result for the team and for Vettel, and that's fair. Vettel had a bit of a ragged race, perhaps overstated by the fact that he had a lack of front downforce. Still, he's a much better overtaker than that, and I think he tried for more than the Hungaroring will give you at times. One race does not make a driver, and I hope people won't use this as an estimate of Vettel's abilities. It was one of the worst races I've seen him drive in a long time and he still finished third in a less-than-perfect car (wing damage, KERS problems). So, that's how good he and that team are...very, very good. Hopefully, he'll regroup and get back to typical Vettel for Spa. It was an interesting race in that it seemed like a lot of things might happen, and even though they didn't, it left enough for "realistic imagination" to be thought-provoking enough for my tastes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted July 31, 2013 Grosjean's driving reminds me of the way I dance; lots of flailing, gaining lots of attention and rare (very rare) occasions of competence. Ultimately cringeworthy with others trying to give plenty of space whilst a horrible spectacle transpires. It's why I don't dance anymore and why Lotus should turn the music off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted July 31, 2013 Grosjean's driving reminds me of the way I dance; lots of flailing, gaining lots of attention and rare (very rare) occasions of competence. Ultimately cringeworthy with others trying to give plenty of space whilst a horrible spectacle transpires. It's why I don't dance anymore and why Lotus should turn the music off. LOL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2013 Grosjean's driving reminds me of the way I dance; lots of flailing, gaining lots of attention and rare (very rare) occasions of competence. Ultimately cringeworthy with others trying to give plenty of space whilst a horrible spectacle transpires. It's why I don't dance anymore and why Lotus should turn the music off. Lol like, Elaine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted July 31, 2013 Grosjean's driving reminds me of the way I dance; lots of flailing, gaining lots of attention and rare (very rare) occasions of competence. Ultimately cringeworthy with others trying to give plenty of space whilst a horrible spectacle transpires. It's why I don't dance anymore and why Lotus should turn the music off. Sounds like me, if you replace 'dancing' with 'lovemaking' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
