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Emmcee

Kimi To Ferrari

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Yet the silly season just gets better with the addition of Raikkonen racing for 3 teams in 2014. Lotus,RedBull and now Ferrari, a local Finnish newspaper has said the deal is already done. If that's the case Ricciardo would be almost certain for rb and di costa to tr. so where is Massa going then? Here's the link to Raikkonen and Ferrari story, what you think?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/36d88cb295aa72776af92287a6d4999a/tumblr_mjs4n5deb81s4mmj8o1_400.gif

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Yet the silly season just gets better with the addition of Raikkonen racing for 3 teams in 2014. Lotus,RedBull and now Ferrari, a local Finnish newspaper has said the deal is already done. If that's the case Ricciardo would be almost certain for rb and di costa to tr. so where is Massa going then? Here's the link to Raikkonen and Ferrari story, what you think?

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/460783/Kimi_is_going_to_Ferrari/

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I'm never too quick to trust "papers (usually a tabloid) from [driver/team's home country]," though I don't disbelieve that every high-end team in the paddock is going to solicit Räikkönen and Alonso, if available, regardless of how odd it may seem.

Does Räikkönen to Ferrari, playing along on the assumption it is true which is not an assumption I actually hold yet, really mean Ricciardo to Red Bull? If Red Bull wanted Räikkönen, it's an obvious sign that they're trying to put someone very strong next to Red Bull and nothing against Ricciardo here, but there could be more proven candidates floating around. There's the Alonso stuff and all, and I just don't know that Ferrari would sign Räikkönen to replace Massa. Of course, if Alonso's willing to race alongside Vettel, he'd be willing to race Räikkönen, I'm sure, but it just doesn't add up. The appeal to Ferrari was that it was going to be Alonso's team. Allison and Räikkönen make it less so, and at that point, if you lose that advantage as Alonso, you may as well try to be in the best car now that the situations would be equal...

I offer this, too: why would Räikkönen sign with Ferrari if he could sign with Red Bull? Both teams have, right now, a lead driver who will be very hard to beat. So, on those equal terms (as I mentioned for Alonso), you go to the better team, Red Bull, assuming (big assumption) contract length and payments are about the same. Remove Alonso, though, and now it's not equal. Ferrari is your team; Red Bull is Vettel's. What I'm saying is that it not only would make sense for Alonso to be at Red Bull if Räikkönen were at Ferrari, but also that it would make sense for Räikkönen to be at Ferrari predominantly if Alonso were at Red Bull.

Where is Massa going? Nowhere, knowing Ferrari who would much rather you shame them in how you drive than in what you say. Ironic that Ferrari tells us drivers come and go, and yet it seems Massa is eternal.

If Massa is out, he's not going anywhere. He was the only driver who refused reducing driver salary as part of cost-cutting around 2009 or so. The teams that are on his level need drivers who bring the funding, not drivers who demand many millions. He's out-pricing himself, and even if he did take a pay cut (something he doesn't want to do, and he has his right to feel that way, no doubt...he's someone who knows how dangerous this is and all), I still don't see an unsteady team like Sauber letting in a driver who doesn't bring money. Plus, Sauber's a catch-22. The seat belongs to Sergey Sirotkin. The only way to open the seat is for the Russian rescue deal to fall through. If that deal falls through, though, there won't be funding in place to give that seat to anyone. So that notion goes out. I haven't seen Massa linked to any other team, and just can't.

I'm not sure we need to worry about him. I think, somehow, someway, he stays at Ferrari. They seem totally happy with him. Now, it's just a matter of deciding is it 2007 all over again, with Massa and Räikkönen partnered and Alonso leaving home to be paired with a teammate every bit his equal, or is it going to be the much more likely 2014 where the pieces stay the same.

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[i]"Kimi is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message?"[/i] LOL

Not sure how I feel about Kimi going back to Ferrari if the rumours are true. However great Lotus have been with their social media and being a team Kimi is comfortable in, at the end of the day it's all about the racing, and they are lucky to be where they are right now. They've lost Allison, have no funds to even pay Kimi, let alone develop the car further. I just can't see Kimi staying there to be honest. Even if they do scrounge up the money and get a title sponsor, they are a midfield team who have been hitting above their weight.

Maybe the people who run Lotus have been doing a great job with the resources that they have, but it's getting old hearing they have signed this investor, and this sponsor only for it to turn out to be baloney.

At least Ferrari will have the funds, and if they truly get behind Kimi, they can make some progress. Now that Schumi's ties with the team have been severed, and hopefully Massa out the door, he won't get any of that interference during his 2008 and 2009 years.

RBR are like a girl who has many prospective boyfriends. She's about ready to choose one, when another one pops up she might think is better. It makes no sense why they havn't snapped up Kimi, but I can think of 2 possibles.

Scenario 1 - They need a driver to partner Vettel.
Scenario 2 - They need a driver to replace Vettel in 1-2 years time as the team leader.

Kimi fits better into scenario 2. But he's proven to have not had issues with team mates in the past, and has not engaged in any of the game playing and politics. Thus he would also fit into scenario 1.

I think RBR are thinking this over too hard. But they do ahve alot to think about. What happens if Vettel leaves? And they could have got Alonso or Kimi now to protect against that. What happens if Vettel doesn't leave? Having Alonso moreso than Kimi is going to be a nightmare. Alonso has a proven track record as a driver who can turn on his team.

As much as Lotus keep harping on how they want to keep Kimi, he seems in no hurry to sign with them. I can't think of a more stupid thing to do, in not paying your top driver, and then stating you want his services further. It doesn't make any sense and means Lotus are in such a dire situation, they can't hide this. Sure they can not pay their contractors and various partners, and keep that info from Kimi, but by not paying him, of course he's going to look at other options.

Lastly, Lotus are not able to improve over a year. It happened last year, and it's happening this year. Their one advantage of running a race with one stop less than the others isn't working anymore. The teams have worked out the tyres now, so their only ace up their sleeve is gone.

At the end of the day, I just hope Kimi stays in F1.

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"Kimi is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message?" LOL

Not sure how I feel about Kimi going back to Ferrari if the rumours are true. However great Lotus have been with their social media and being a team Kimi is comfortable in, at the end of the day it's all about the racing, and they are lucky to be where they are right now. They've lost Allison, have no funds to even pay Kimi, let alone develop the car further. I just can't see Kimi staying there to be honest. Even if they do scrounge up the money and get a title sponsor, they are a midfield team who have been hitting above their weight.

Maybe the people who run Lotus have been doing a great job with the resources that they have, but it's getting old hearing they have signed this investor, and this sponsor only for it to turn out to be baloney.

At least Ferrari will have the funds, and if they truly get behind Kimi, they can make some progress. Now that Schumi's ties with the team have been severed, and hopefully Massa out the door, he won't get any of that interference during his 2008 and 2009 years.

RBR are like a girl who has many prospective boyfriends. She's about ready to choose one, when another one pops up she might think is better. It makes no sense why they havn't snapped up Kimi, but I can think of 2 possibles.

Scenario 1 - They need a driver to partner Vettel.

Scenario 2 - They need a driver to replace Vettel in 1-2 years time as the team leader.

Kimi fits better into scenario 2. But he's proven to have not had issues with team mates in the past, and has not engaged in any of the game playing and politics. Thus he would also fit into scenario 1.

I think RBR are thinking this over too hard. But they do ahve alot to think about. What happens if Vettel leaves? And they could have got Alonso or Kimi now to protect against that. What happens if Vettel doesn't leave? Having Alonso moreso than Kimi is going to be a nightmare. Alonso has a proven track record as a driver who can turn on his team.

As much as Lotus keep harping on how they want to keep Kimi, he seems in no hurry to sign with them. I can't think of a more stupid thing to do, in not paying your top driver, and then stating you want his services further. It doesn't make any sense and means Lotus are in such a dire situation, they can't hide this. Sure they can not pay their contractors and various partners, and keep that info from Kimi, but by not paying him, of course he's going to look at other options.

Lastly, Lotus are not able to improve over a year. It happened last year, and it's happening this year. Their one advantage of running a race with one stop less than the others isn't working anymore. The teams have worked out the tyres now, so their only ace up their sleeve is gone.

At the end of the day, I just hope Kimi stays in F1.

He'll stay at lotus. Vettel says he doesn't care who partners him. Yeah right, bet behind closed doors he did what ever he could to keep kimi out that seat and push ricciardo in it. Alonso would do the exact same. No way he will risk a repeat of 2007. See with ricciardo, he is perfect for seb, he would do exactly as Redbull tell him as he will be just stoaked to be running at the front. Redbull will make sure when they sign him that there is a clear "No.2" on top of his contract and it won't be his car number.

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I'm in two minds about Vettel's not wanting Kimi there. I actually believe him, when he said he'd like Kimi there. I think the roadblock hasn't been Horner, who is a Kimi supporter, or Newey who is most definately a Kimi supporter, but Marko. He despite still not knowing what his actual purpose is other than a poor mans Lauda, seems to carry alot of weight in the team.

If it was a toss up between Vettel not wanting Kimi as a teammate, or Alonso, I'd say Alonso would be more scared. Vettel likes a challenge, and you'd have to admit has not only been fighting the rest of the grid, but his own team mate unnecessarily as well. He's a fighter. Alonso is well, Spanish.

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I'm in two minds about Vettel's not wanting Kimi there. I actually believe him, when he said he'd like Kimi there. I think the roadblock hasn't been Horner, who is a Kimi supporter, or Newey who is most definately a Kimi supporter, but Marko. He despite still not knowing what his actual purpose is other than a poor mans Lauda, seems to carry alot of weight in the team.

If it was a toss up between Vettel not wanting Kimi as a teammate, or Alonso, I'd say Alonso would be more scared. Vettel likes a challenge, and you'd have to admit has not only been fighting the rest of the grid, but his own team mate unnecessarily as well. He's a fighter. Alonso is well, Spanish.

Maybe your right,but it could be Vettel,trying to win some fans back after the "multi 21" incident. I saw on a few other forums,Facebook,twitter, Vettel got smashed for that, lost alot of support. Iam not saying that because iam a webber fan. Iam stating what I've read and saw. I know if I was Vettel and I had his perfect situation,I'd fight to keep it and not take a chance to loose it.

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I'm in two minds about Vettel's not wanting Kimi there. I actually believe him, when he said he'd like Kimi there. I think the roadblock hasn't been Horner, who is a Kimi supporter, or Newey who is most definately a Kimi supporter, but Marko. He despite still not knowing what his actual purpose is other than a poor mans Lauda, seems to carry alot of weight in the team.

If it was a toss up between Vettel not wanting Kimi as a teammate, or Alonso, I'd say Alonso would be more scared. Vettel likes a challenge, and you'd have to admit has not only been fighting the rest of the grid, but his own team mate unnecessarily as well. He's a fighter. Alonso is well, Spanish.

I don't think Alonso is scared of anyone at all. He knows he is the best and he is just editing for a car close to the rb. I believe he could beat vettel in a car just little less good than the rb.

Alonso scared? Nah. Vettel of kimi? In think he would prefer ricci for sure. He wants to beat Schumacher records and do notvwantba top driver in his way at all.

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I don't think Alonso is scared of anyone at all. He knows he is the best and he is just editing for a car close to the rb. I believe he could beat vettel in a car just little less good than the rb.

Alonso scared? Nah. Vettel of kimi? In think he would prefer ricci for sure. He wants to beat Schumacher records and do notvwantba top driver in his way at all.

I see alot of Schumi in Vettel. Maybe because Schumi mentored him, but he seems to use the same approach towards everything even to the point of how he wants his team built around him. I remember Schumi used to go out of his way to make sure the other driver in the other car, wasn't getting what he had first, and had the upper hand so he didnt have to worry about battling a teammate, he could go straight for the crown.

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Alonso is well, Spanish.

Should I ask what this has to do with Alonso's supposed willingness or unwillingness to have an equal-status teammate, or did I completely miss some sort of reference to something?

I think Vettel and Alonso are equally desirous of winning races and championships. Accordingly, I think both would use any power they are afforded to control who partners them. Both have continued to have weaker teammates for many years, with Hamilton at McLaren being the only exception in their histories. Alonso's McLaren exit, to me, proves that he wants to win, and feels that control is key for him to win. He could not command McLaren to get behind him (that's a two-way street; don't see that as total blame on Alonso), and it was more important for him to be in a situation where he could than to be in the absolute best car. He's done alright in that regard, though he's never won the WDC that way. Either way, I think that highlighted how important it is for Alonso to have that position, and it must be important because he believes that's the best way for him to win. I wouldn't fault any driver for trying to get a weaker teammate in the same way I wouldn't fault any driver for trying to get in a better car. Yes, it may be "heroic" or "admirable" to pair up with a WDC or try to win the title in a Marussia out of loyalty, but at the end of the day, any driver who wants to win has every right to do what he or she can to get in the best situation, and determine what actually is the specific best for him- or herself. I think control is important to Alonso and to Vettel; Vettel's "disobedience," for lack of a better term, suggests that he wants to run the show, but might not yet have the respect of Red Bull to do that entirely. I believe Alonso does have Ferrari's respect to hold the position Vettel wants, and that's part of why Massa stays: he has Alonso's endorsement.

At the same time, though, I can't quite figure out Vettel's public comments about Räikkönen. They're an odd thing to say if he doesn't mean it. Is he really that concerned about perception that he'd invent a plan, knowing Räikkönen would not be signed, to make it seem like he wasn't the reason Räikkönen joined, in hopes that people would respect him more for inviting such a challenge? I highly, highly doubt it. I don't think these guys care that much what we think. Likewise, I'm not sure he really has time to think of games he can play with the media.

So, it's hard to justify publicly saying that if 1) it's not what the team wanted to do and 2) it's not what he wanted to do. Then again, he knows what Räikkönen would give him, whereas Ricciardo probably hasn't hit his peak, so maybe he does prefer Räikkönen. It might not have to be inconsistent with wanting control to want to partner with Räikkönen. Alternatively, Vettel might actually want a bigger challenge, precisely because he's never had one. We shouldn't assume what he's had his whole career is what he really desires. That said, if he does feel that way, it could be premature, as both he and Webber have not always responded well to each other when they raced closely. Each has had complaints to voice, or employed tactics that the team did not enjoy. Vettel's never seemed to enjoy defeat (which driver does...), and putting himself in a situation where that would happen more frequently than it does with Webber would seem like an odd request.

He, too, could be saying it specifically because the team doesn't want Räikkönen, and he just feels like being "that way" about things. I doubt that, of course.

Could Red Bull, then, have told Vettel to say it, as some sort of tactic in this whole negotiation process? There's seemingly something they want to accomplish with Ricciardo, because it takes them forever to sign him when he was, in fact, the easiest to sign and, as a young driver, would probably take a pretty unimpressive-by-top-tier-F1-team-standards contract. They kept delaying, and still are delaying. Whether that's just to motivate Ricciardo and see if he responds to this type of motivation, or to try to make him settle for less money/different term/whatever, I don't know, but there's that possibility.

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I don't think Alonso is scared of anyone at all. He knows he is the best and he is just editing for a car close to the rb. I believe he could beat vettel in a car just little less good than the rb.

Alonso scared? Nah. Vettel of kimi? In think he would prefer ricci for sure. He wants to beat Schumacher records and do notvwantba top driver in his way at all.

I agree he's not scared, but he also knows that a quality driver will sometimes have the upper hand. Even if 75% of the time Alonso is ahead of the other driver in quali and the race, the other 25% of the time he'll have his teammate in the way. Qualifying ahead of him, blocking him into turn 1, getting preferential pitting, holding him up in the race, etc. He'd of course prefer a clear #2 and the team saying 'Alonso gets preferential treatment 100% of the time, best pit strat, free overtakes, hell, we'll have your teammate TOW you in qualifying.'

It seems like the rumor is now that Kimi has his deal signed with Ferrari and they are announcing on Wednesday. I just can't understand why they would do this... two great drivers in one team which does not have the best car is not going to allow them to challenge for the WDC. Maybe they've decided WCC is all they're gonna be able to get for now.

Unless Alonso is openly shopping other teams, this seems crazy. After all, they moved Kimi out to make room for Alonso, this is the man who wasn't keeping up with Massa in 2008... and they PAID him eight figures in 2009 NOT to drive their car..

I had really felt Kimi was going to McLaren. Macca needs a top driver or they're gonna risk going the way of Williams. Button is swell, but top tier is Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen. It makes sense for each of them to be captaining a top team. It just feels right that way, and makes for great racing.

Edit: Oh yeah, and Kubica. He'll always be top tier in my book

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I don't think Alonso is scared of anyone at all. He knows he is the best and he is just editing for a car close to the rb. I believe he could beat vettel in a car just little less good than the rb.

Alonso scared? Nah. Vettel of kimi? In think he would prefer ricci for sure. He wants to beat Schumacher records and do notvwantba top driver in his way at all.

Time will tell. There is alot of noise around right now about Kimi being confirmed at Ferrari on Wednesday.

And that being the reason Alonso has been moody and difficult to deal with. He wanted Massa to stay obviously as his gimp, but the team want more out of their drivers now.

So Alonso going to RBR I feel was more than just a rumour.

There's also quite a few stories stating Alonso going back to Lotus, with Renault and Total investing heavily back into the team is more than just rumour.

Put simply, if Kimi is at Ferrari in 2014, and Alonso is not... he IS scared. There is no other reason for him to leave. He's in the second best team at the moment, thus no reason to leave for a lessor team. If he had gone to RBR, then even if he was scared, the option of driving for a champion team would crush any other argument and no one would think worse of him. You don't turn down a drive in the best team of the past 4.5 years.

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With all LdM comments about the team, I feel he wants to make sure that a constructors title finds it way to Ferrari soon. That's why they want the best line up. TBH, I feel that until they are back to being #1 constructor, the arguments about who will be the teams #1 driver are pointless. I fear that Kimi and Fernando will spend the next couple of years putting the Ferrari at the top (ala Berger and Alesi)..............only for Vettel to come along take all the glory.

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Bah. The President of the team publicly corrected his driver. That's not the media fabricating a story, that actually happenened. And Alonso has seemed frustrated at times, as well he might.There is tension at Ferrari to one degree or another, more so than at Red Bull or Mclaren or most other teams. Obviously the media want to play on it, and it might not be all that bad (I doubt it is), but it is there to be played on.

Nobody came out and tried to deny there was tension at Red Bull in Malayasia and for a little while after, because there obviously was. Same story here.

As for the Raikkonen rumours, well if they sign him you can take it a number of ways. Obviously Raikkonen is a fantastic driver and so you could look at it and say "Ferrari just wanted the best driver available". The problem is that isn't how Ferrari has been running for a long time and it isn't the policy of many top teams to hire two top line drivers. So we are back to those tensions again. If you wanted to take that angle, you could go two ways. Either some of the problems at Ferrari are caused by Ferrari telling Alonso they wanted to hire Raikkonen, or Ferrari want to hire Raikkonen because of the difficulties.

Either way, it would show that the driver has no control over these things, only influence. And influence is something you can lose once other interests take over.

Btw, I still expect Ferrari to sign Massa or Hulkenberg.

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EDIT: Nevermind. Answer too long, and it won't change anything. BTW I know what you meant, and you are partially right, but that was not my point.

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You think I'm completely right really, you just don't want to admit it in public :P

No, I demand you explain in 140 characters or less.

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Nevermind.

EDIT: Nevermind. Answer too long, and it won't change anything. BTW I know what you meant, and you are partially right, but that was not my point.

Now you are just teasing us! You must be hiding some real gems of insight that you think we are not worthy of appreciating... We demand you tell us anyway! tongue.png

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:lol: I wish I could, but whatever I said I will sound like an irrational pro Nando hooligan, so it's a damn if you do damn if you don't situation. And that's what happens to FA and what infuriates me. I was merely going to point the many examples of similar or worse attitudes against their teams or teammates by the other big names, but I know it won't help.

Again, nevermind. I don't know how to express my disagreement with the light under which the present situation of ALonso and Ferrari is viewed without causing more misunderstandings and making me sound even more irrational.

Sorry!

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Well, I wouldn't deny for a second that there are plenty of other examples of this kind of thing and many quite recent ones. Some not as bad, some much worse. But for once I don't think the media is all that responsible, although yes, it has been sensationalised. I don't think there's anything that wrong at Ferrari that Alonso winning a race wouldn't go a long way to heal, if it's true that there is some tension there (which I think it is).

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Irrational pro Nando hooligans! hmmm sounds like a good idea for a t-shirt haha.

In a way this is just desserts for Ferrari, call it karma if you will. They attempted to stir the sh*t at RBR last year by going on how Vettel was going to, or interested in leaving RBR for Ferrari. Seems they got their own issues to deal with and it's not even RBR's whose fanning the flames. Got to give them a little respect for not putting the boot in themselves and having a little dig.

Ferrari's issues are down to them not getting the results. From the team management perspective, that then falls on Massa and Alonso's shoulders.

If Ferrari hire Kimi, then that shows Alonso's influence has weakened in the team because he wants Massa by his side. The love in for him is essentially over now anyway. This brings up all kinds of potential changes to the team. For instance how long will Santander stay with them?

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