Kimi To Ferrari

[Insider 0]

It's all very interesting. Alonso will not like this one bit. He didn't last five minutes at McLaren with Lewis and Ferrari will have to change their DNA to fit two No.1s into the team. I don't see it and would not be suprised to see him jump ship. The Hulk or Button would be a much better fit but the Scuderia obviously think their sole change of success against RBR it getting two drivers on the podium every week. Getting there is quite another thing.

[Insider 0]

Finally officially announced. I hope Ferrari provide a car worth the hassle.

They won't. Bet on it. Small turbo engines aren't their bag, man.

[Guest]

Ferrari certainly do not want to risk losing santander's money. However, I'm sure if FA was to leave early and take his banking friends with him - there will be some compensation written into the contract.

I think we all misunderstood when LdM said he diddn't want 2 roosters in the hen-house. It was never about the drivers, it was about his own emperorship. With this move, he's asserted himself big style. LdM IS Ferrari and anybody who doubts otherwise only need to ask MS, JT, KR and FA.

[Rainmaster 7]

Alonso and Kimi, what a dream team. Thank you, Ferrari, although it seems like you wasted years giving Massa a seat and now you've gone too far the other way to make up for it, putting two titans in the same team.

2014 just got so much more exciting, even if Ferrari don't produce a great car.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The Dark Knight returns...

beautiful...

http://f1bias.com/

[Quiet One 15]

Kimi is F1's Justin Bieber

[Massa 0]

You only leave a team if you have at least an equal team to goto. So Alonso staying for now, doesn't mean he's mended his ways and reformed.

Renault was not equal to McLaren when Alonso left. He will go if he wants to go. It's self-fulfilling that people who don't like Alonso pin Alonso in situations where he can never possibly get credit; of course you will never think Alonso could ever redeem himself if you always have an out to reduce anything Alonso does...

Moreover, it implies that the McLaren situation was a straight-up "Alonso left because Hamilton matched him and McLaren didn't give him number one status." That doesn't have to be the case. We can never know the truth there, and I'm sure that played a role. But was that the whole of the situation? I doubt it.

Then, it implies that a driver is somehow inferior for thinking he or she deserves number one status, and for thinking that number one status would be beneficial to the team as a whole. That's not an argument that I've ever seen made well, but I'd invite any attempts.

So, let's not be too hard on Alonso now. The rivalry is fun, and I enjoy the ribbing we see amongst the fans of different drivers here. We'll see what Alonso does. If you want my guess, he beats Räikkönen in the same car...

...and Vettel and Hamilton beat both...

...but that's the fun of the future.

[Rainmaster 7]

Funny to see LdM's change of stance regarding Ferrari's driver policy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnyr0YZs-w

The problem for Alonso isn't beating Kimi on the track. That he can do, and I think he might even do more comfortably than we'd imagine. The problem comes if the reason LdM's position has changed is because he wants to put Alonso in his place or there is some issue there. Alonso can handle a strong team mate but he won't handle a fast team mate in a team that doesn't support him properly anymore. That isn't the case yet, of course, but he really doesn't need to give the media any more ammo for the rest of the year.

[Quiet One 15]

Best. Tweet. Evah.

https://twitter.com/Lotus_F1Team/status/377765191053606912/photo/1

[BradSpeedMan 6]

"The same applies to Raikkonen, and the irony merely compounded yesterday when Ferrari Team Principal Stefano Domenicali admitted to Autosport that it was Allison’s appraisal of the Finn that swayed the Ferrari board into re-signing Kimi: “As for the technical side of things, not only do we know full well how much Kimi can contribute… when the technical framework is changing so significantly, but we also have first hand information from James Allison, as to how much the Finn has progressed in this area over the past two years.

I would’ve thought that prognosis would’ve been self-evident given the frequent drubbing Kimi and co have been able to apportion to Ferrari over the last twenty-four months. But more so, it should’ve been obvious during Raikkonen’s determinative year with them in 2009. While unhappy with the F-60’s understeery nature and a lack of affinity with that year’s Bridgestones, it wasn’t until Felipe Massa’s accident in Hungary, that the team turned their attention to Raikkonen’s specific requirements. It was an awkward scenario for all when Kimi stoically remarked that he’d made specific requests early in 2009, only for his calls to fall upon deaf ears"

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/463950/Ferrari_and_the_Ex_Factor/

Another myth gone, a few of us kept on saying this, but we all know what the response was... Waiting for my other conspiracy theory to reveal itself in time, why Massa beat Kimi 2008-2009 with MS influence looking after his protege.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Best. Tweet. Evah.

https://twitter.com/...3606912/photo/1

NO!, this one"s even better, am sure u will like

https://twitter.com/f1silverarrow/status/377793503515783168/photo/1

[Quiet One 15]

Yeah, shows the maturity of Kimi's fanbase.

[rodders47 2]

hey for us viewers it has to be great news to have Kimi and Alonso in the same team, just like 2 roosters in the one Hen house............. gotta make for some interesting racing. Can you imagine Kimi being asked to let Alonso go by because he is faster ???? Bloody brave guy on the other end of the radio to do that :-)

[pabloh20 1]

It will certainly be interesting, for sure.

Unless they are on completely different strategies, or there is an issue, I don't think they will ask Kimi to move over, or indeed Alonso, if the situation is reversed. At least not until somebody has a sizeable lead in the championship, anyway.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Renault was not equal to McLaren when Alonso left. He will go if he wants to go. It's self-fulfilling that people who don't like Alonso pin Alonso in situations where he can never possibly get credit; of course you will never think Alonso could ever redeem himself if you always have an out to reduce anything Alonso does...

Moreover, it implies that the McLaren situation was a straight-up "Alonso left because Hamilton matched him and McLaren didn't give him number one status." That doesn't have to be the case. We can never know the truth there, and I'm sure that played a role. But was that the whole of the situation? I doubt it.

Then, it implies that a driver is somehow inferior for thinking he or she deserves number one status, and for thinking that number one status would be beneficial to the team as a whole. That's not an argument that I've ever seen made well, but I'd invite any attempts.

So, let's not be too hard on Alonso now. The rivalry is fun, and I enjoy the ribbing we see amongst the fans of different drivers here. We'll see what Alonso does. If you want my guess, he beats Räikkönen in the same car...

...and Vettel and Hamilton beat both...

...but that's the fun of the future.

You won't find many people who rate those 2 years after Alonso left McLaren to go to Renault as highlights of his career, accept maybe Singapore for all the wrong reasons. Not only did it feel like Alonso was putting in 50% effort since the car was rubbish, I read it many times that various F1 pundits also felt he was just ticking down the clock until his next move, which was to Ferrari. Hardly the mark of a true champion who gives 100% no matter what. As for why he left McLaren, well where do you start. Blackmailing Ron Dennis? Knowingly using stolen information and communicating to PDR about it? Our lives are not long enough to get into the mess that became. Thus for many means it made sense for Teflon Alonso to bail and go back to a team that never questioned him while he licked his wounds.

There's many instances of Alonso speaking/lashing out against his own team when he doesn't feel the love, or gets paranoid and thinks they are working against him. Surely his outburst against Renault stating he felt they didn't want him to win the Championship has to go down as one of his best tin foil hat moments. But dissecting Alonso's missteps and transgressions whilst fun, simply at this point would take too much of out time. I'm sure one day when things are boring in F1, we can go have a good detailed discussion about it. But the truth is Alonso has a lot of baggage. He doesn't get a ribbing for nothing, he's earned it.

"The same applies to Raikkonen, and the irony merely compounded yesterday when Ferrari Team Principal Stefano Domenicali admitted to Autosport that it was Allison’s appraisal of the Finn that swayed the Ferrari board into re-signing Kimi: “As for the technical side of things, not only do we know full well how much Kimi can contribute… when the technical framework is changing so significantly, but we also have first hand information from James Allison, as to how much the Finn has progressed in this area over the past two years.

I would’ve thought that prognosis would’ve been self-evident given the frequent drubbing Kimi and co have been able to apportion to Ferrari over the last twenty-four months. But more so, it should’ve been obvious during Raikkonen’s determinative year with them in 2009. While unhappy with the F-60’s understeery nature and a lack of affinity with that year’s Bridgestones, it wasn’t until Felipe Massa’s accident in Hungary, that the team turned their attention to Raikkonen’s specific requirements. It was an awkward scenario for all when Kimi stoically remarked that he’d made specific requests early in 2009, only for his calls to fall upon deaf ears"

http://www.gptoday.c..._the_Ex_Factor/

Another myth gone, a few of us kept on saying this, but we all know what the response was... Waiting for my other conspiracy theory to reveal itself in time, why Massa beat Kimi 2008-2009 with MS influence looking after his protege.

Thanks for posting that Brad. I'm one of the few who like you believed the myths were bulls**t. And it's been a long fight over many years to try and get people to even acknowledge that they were believing and repeating rumours. It was hard to make people see that Ferrari's treatment of Kimi during 2008 and 2009 was abhornet. And then to insult the guy even more, they spread bs about him being unmotived etc., then cut him from their team. So it's great to read more things about that era, as you and I both know, something stunk really badly there during that time and it wasn't anything to do with Kimi's motivation, or skills.

You've seen that other great website article that has a whole breakdown of that era. About Schumi's influence in getting Ferrari to make a car molded to Massa's liking. Yet there were many times, comments, quotes from Ferrari engineers, saying how great Kimi was with technical feedback, and that he didn't speak alot like a chatterbox, but when he did, what he said was spot on and knowledgeable. McLaren engineers and team members have raved about Kimi for years. Lotus rave about him. I'll take fact, from people who worked with him and had no axe to grind, or political whatevers to gain, over whom or where these rumours first came from. There were also things I read on many F1 websites after that year, from Ferrari mechanics too, stating how amazed they were, how much they respected Kimi, that he was able to get the performances he did in the second half of 2009, from a car they had abandoned even trying to improve around half way during that season. Massa's accident meant they had no choice but to do what he was recommending for car setups, and handling etc. And his performances backed that up. Yet people chose to buy the bs from Ferrari about Kimi's lack of motivation, and it was bandied about as fact. Just look at my signature lol. Kimi has come out many times to say it wasn't the case. No wonder he doesn't like dealing with the media and I don't blame him.

So it makes me happy to read this, and also to see that Kimi is gaining even more fans on a daily basis. It's great that these myths are being buried hopefully for good.

[KoolMonkey 0]

It will certainly be interesting, for sure.

Unless they are on completely different strategies, or there is an issue, I don't think they will ask Kimi to move over, or indeed Alonso, if the situation is reversed. At least not until somebody has a sizeable lead in the championship, anyway.

Yeah I can't imagine Ferrari asking Kimi to pull aside to let Alonso pass in race 2 of 20, or having him accept a gearbox penalty to bump him up a spot either. You only have to look at 2008 to see Kimi supported Massa all the way, so he's not against helping his team mate at all. Thus if Alonso is in with a shot and Kimi isn't, I expect he will do the same. However since we have never seen Alonso in this position, we don't have a track record of it. He might be ok with it, or he might sulk, create a scene and get fired. Who knows, but next year will be fantastic. I just hope Ferrari don't have a stinker of a car, as have many posters here have stated, they have very little knowledge and experience working with 1.6L turbos.

[Massa 0]

You won't find many people who rate those 2 years after Alonso left McLaren to go to Renault as highlights of his career, accept maybe Singapore for all the wrong reasons. Not only did it feel like Alonso was putting in 50% effort since the car was rubbish, I read it many times that various F1 pundits also felt he was just ticking down the clock until his next move, which was to Ferrari. Hardly the mark of a true champion who gives 100% no matter what. As for why he left McLaren, well where do you start. Blackmailing Ron Dennis? Knowingly using stolen information and communicating to PDR about it? Our lives are not long enough to get into the mess that became. Thus for many means it made sense for Teflon Alonso to bail and go back to a team that never questioned him while he licked his wounds.

There's many instances of Alonso speaking/lashing out against his own team when he doesn't feel the love, or gets paranoid and thinks they are working against him. Surely his outburst against Renault stating he felt they didn't want him to win the Championship has to go down as one of his best tin foil hat moments. But dissecting Alonso's missteps and transgressions whilst fun, simply at this point would take too much of out time. I'm sure one day when things are boring in F1, we can go have a good detailed discussion about it. But the truth is Alonso has a lot of baggage. He doesn't get a ribbing for nothing, he's earned it.

My point was that Alonso left a better team for a worse one because he was unhappy with the situation.

If he is unhappy with the situation of Räikkönen as his teammate, he will leave Ferrari, even if it means going to a worse team.

If he does not leave, that means he is happy with the situation of Räikkönen as his teammate. Your first post, to which I was replying, implied that Alonso would stay because he had nowhere better to go; I was referencing his leave from McLaren to Renault to illustrate that performance won't be a factor if Alonso truly wants to leave.

Thus, if Alonso stays, as planned, he is not afraid of Räikkönen, and has no problems working with Räikkönen. I did not consider it fair to say Alonso could still, somehow, be afraid of his teammates even if he stays at Ferrari, which you were implying in saying that he'd only stay because he had no other ride.

I was not saying Alonso is somehow flawless, or that he isn't controversial. I personally don't think he's the best driver out there; I've made (terrible) graphs for Vettel. I wouldn't take the time for Alonso.

Simply, I was trying to illustrate that you will never give Alonso credit when you box him into a situation where either thing he does will be criticized. You put Alonso in a place where, if he stays, it's dismissed because he wouldn't go to a lesser team (yet, of course, he has in the past), and if he leaves, he's "scared." There's no situation, in the reality you created for him, where Alonso could be respected. To me, that's different from "ribbing" or analyzing the incidents around him.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

don't know how true this is...

http://f1bias.com/2013/09/13/kimi-got-his-apology-from-montezemelo/

[KoolMonkey 0]

My point was that Alonso left a better team for a worse one because he was unhappy with the situation.

If he is unhappy with the situation of Räikkönen as his teammate, he will leave Ferrari, even if it means going to a worse team.

If he does not leave, that means he is happy with the situation of Räikkönen as his teammate. Your first post, to which I was replying, implied that Alonso would stay because he had nowhere better to go; I was referencing his leave from McLaren to Renault to illustrate that performance won't be a factor if Alonso truly wants to leave.

Thus, if Alonso stays, as planned, he is not afraid of Räikkönen, and has no problems working with Räikkönen. I did not consider it fair to say Alonso could still, somehow, be afraid of his teammates even if he stays at Ferrari, which you were implying in saying that he'd only stay because he had no other ride.

I was not saying Alonso is somehow flawless, or that he isn't controversial. I personally don't think he's the best driver out there; I've made (terrible) graphs for Vettel. I wouldn't take the time for Alonso.

Simply, I was trying to illustrate that you will never give Alonso credit when you box him into a situation where either thing he does will be criticized. You put Alonso in a place where, if he stays, it's dismissed because he wouldn't go to a lesser team (yet, of course, he has in the past), and if he leaves, he's "scared." There's no situation, in the reality you created for him, where Alonso could be respected. To me, that's different from "ribbing" or analyzing the incidents around him.

That is true, him leaving McLaren for Renault was a worse move, but I also have to think he had an inkling he was headed to Ferrari anyway. Thus it was just him frittering away time until he was able to get the seat at Ferrari. Thus it really didn't' matter so much, since he was getting paid tons, and he knew toughing it out there was worth it counting down the days until he went to Ferrari.

That's not the same as now. If Alonso left Ferrari for Lotus... he might never go anywhere else. But who knows, maybe he might have a plan to head to RBR if Vettel leaves for Ferrari as many people think he will in time.

I don't think he's the same sort of person either now, as he was back in his Renault 2.0 days. Thus he might not be willing to head to a lesser team knowing he's now spent years trying to get his 3rd WDC. So he might be more "tolerant" to the idea of equal #1 status, but as I mentioned you can't change someones spots. Thus his true nature will come out eventually. Either he will lose it, or he'll be beating Kimi and thus avoid the embarrassment of the world seeing him act like the child he as in the past.

I think he'll see how it goes at Ferrari, and then either way we'll see the outcome. He could very easily head to a lesser team, having already locked up a contract for a bigger team a year or two after that.

[KoolMonkey 0]

don't know how true this is...

http://f1bias.com/20...om-montezemelo/

I hope it is true. The way Kimi was treated by Ferrari was beyond an insult. For me the worst, was the way the team, mainly Luca, were still putting Kimi down, after Kimi had left the team. There was no need for that at all, unless it was to stroke Alonso's ego. Why criticize a driver, after they have left the team. Very strange. So yeah, I hope he did give Kimi a genuine apology. Not so much for cutting him from the team, as let's face it, it's happened to many drivers in all the teams and will continue to do so in this sport. But the way they did it was what bothered me. Kimi never defended the accusations, or said anything negative about it. He showed some class in how he conducted himself. He could very easily have played the bitter victim and lashed out, as he was out of F1 and had nothign to lose but he didn't.

And lastly, I saw a cool comment on another F1 website about Massa. And it said that the person felt not sympathy for Massa due to him showing none for Kimi when he was cut from the team. But mostly because afterwards he said the team was working better than it ever had now that Alonso was there. If that wasn't a dig at Kimi, then who was it aimed it. Anyway he's had his chance, 5 years too many if you ask me. I hope he stays in F1, but even if he doesn't, he's made plenty of $$ and set for life from this point.

[Guest]

I think he'll see how it goes at Ferrari, and then either way we'll see the outcome. He could very easily head to a lesser team, having already locked up a contract for a bigger team a year or two after that.

By then, Seb could be 6 times WDC, an old timer may not seem such a good signing for any team by then.

Time is deffo on the side of Seb - Kimi, Alonso and Hammy need to get the job done quickly.

[Massa 0]

By then, Seb could be 6 times WDC, an old timer may not seem such a good signing for any team by then.

Time is deffo on the side of Seb - Kimi, Alonso and Hammy need to get the job done quickly.

Yeah, exactly. It's kind of odd to think that at 34, Räikkönen will be the oldest driver on the entire grid next year, with Button a few months younger. Those two, and Alonso, will all be leaving around the same time, and with the European racing ladder not exactly strong, it may simply cement Vettel's supremacy as their eventual successors are guys who only needed seven years to finally win that GP3 title or whatever...

Hamilton, at 28, still has the most prime ahead of him of Vettel's challengers. I would love to see the Mercedes as a capable car next year. I'd find it very, very exciting to have Hamilton and Vettel as the primary candidates for the WDC, personally.

[KoolMonkey 0]

When Brawn gets it's right with his cars, it's often a total shutout for the other teams, so as a non Merc fan, I hope he doesn't get it right next year

[BradSpeedMan 6]

uh...sooooo....

Ferrari was in contact with Kimi last year about replacing Massa for 2013. Given that Lotus was behind with his payments, he could have walked away from his contract, but he chose to stay loyal.

This time around his decision to move on has been swayed by the ongoing financial squeeze at Lotus, and presumably the team has not been able to give him any guarantees that the situation will improve. His faith in his current team was also dented by the departure of James Allison to Ferrari.

http://adamcooperf1.com