What Now For Massa?

[Emmcee 0]

So, with what we expected to happen has finally happened,Felipe Massa gets the boot. So whats next for our Massa? I can honestly say f1 wise, not a great deal. I keep reading that lotus has him on the cards, but with only one "real" sponsorship he has and his "average" results of the past 24 months, IMHO don't think it really makes him a candidate in today's pay and drive form of racing. Sauber looks like his best bet, as I Beleive lotus will partner hulk with grosjean, yes grosjean as I Beleive boullier will give his fellow Frenchman, another shot. Massa and Gutierrez/Sirotkin, whats your say.

[dribbler 6]

Poor old Felipe is damaged goods. It's not even as though he needs rejuvenating in a less pressured environment. In my opinion he's just not as good as he was prior to his accident. To this end, the sooner he admits this to himself, hangs up his helmet and lives out his days in Brazil with his beautiful family, the better.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Poor old Felipe is damaged goods. It's not even as though he needs rejuvenating in a less pressured environment. In my opinion he's just not as good as he was prior to his accident. To this end, the sooner he admits this to himself, hangs up his helmet and lives out his days in Brazil with his beautiful family, the better.

Ah Dribs, your posts are like accidentally finding the coffee cream in a box of Milk Tray - unexpected, different and surprisingly satisfying

[Quiet One 15]

Ah Dribs, your posts are like accidentally finding the coffee cream in a box of Milk Tray - unexpected, different and surprisingly satisfying

Indeed.

Yours, on the other hand, are like finding pubes in a box of Milk Tray: out of place, gross and only Paul likes them.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Indeed.

Yours, on the other hand, are like finding pubes in a box of Milk Tray: out of place, gross and only Paul likes them.

you mean Custard tray... it's Grabs we're talkin bout

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Yours, on the other hand, are like finding pubes in a box of Milk Tray: out of place, gross and only Paul likes them.

Oh go easy on Paul, prison life is tough you know - last time he saw a box of chocolates was when he nicked them from a supermarket *

* when I say box of chocolates, I was being nice - Paul is from a rough area, actually I meant to say box of gravel....

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

you mean Custard tray... it's Grabs we're talkin bout

you know me so well!

[KoolMonkey 0]

I tend to think Massa is as good as he's ever been at the moment. So much is made of his accident in 2009, yet no one ever talks about the car he was driving in 2008. A car for the first time in his career that was with Schumi's "advice" catered to his driving style. Thus finally having a car that matches his style, he shone brightly that year, and sadly for him won then didn't win the WDC.

He's still atrocious in the wet, and is able to spin his car going in a straight line. Those parts about him haven't changed. But it's too simplistic to state he's never been the same since his accident. A more accurate way of describing it is, he hasn't had the same results since his accident. So what's changed. The car has changed. Schumi was gone from the team, and he had a young up and comer teammate by the name of Alonso. I hear great things about him.

He would have 1 win to his name had Smedely not told him Alonso was faster than him.

I'm not a Massa fan, but it irritates me to no end, to see comments bandied about, how he's not the same driver as before his accident, when the changes to the team, the car, his team mate etc., have had way more of an affect on him. You can't tell me he's driving with the same level of confidence and team support as he was in 2008. Thus the "accident" I feel is not the reason he hasn't had good results.

[Emmcee 0]

I tend to think Massa is as good as he's ever been at the moment. So much is made of his accident in 2009, yet no one ever talks about the car he was driving in 2008. A car for the first time in his career that was with Schumi's "advice" catered to his driving style. Thus finally having a car that matches his style, he shone brightly that year, and sadly for him won then didn't win the WDC.

He's still atrocious in the wet, and is able to spin his car going in a straight line. Those parts about him haven't changed. But it's too simplistic to state he's never been the same since his accident. A more accurate way of describing it is, he hasn't had the same results since his accident. So what's changed. The car has changed. Schumi was gone from the team, and he had a young up and comer teammate by the name of Alonso. I hear great things about him.

He would have 1 win to his name had Smedely not told him Alonso was faster than him.

I'm not a Massa fan, but it irritates me to no end, to see comments bandied about, how he's not the same driver as before his accident, when the changes to the team, the car, his team mate etc., have had way more of an affect on him. You can't tell me he's driving with the same level of confidence and team support as he was in 2008. Thus the "accident" I feel is not the reason he hasn't had good results.

Iam sorry I disagree, he has certainly lost something since his accident. Wheather it's speed or confidence, he has lost something. We see the on the odd occasion, the "real" felipe but he has failed to deliver anything decent since really, and that's sad as iam a fan of his. He seems to have this certain aura that attracts fans to him, similar to Jean Alesi and I think that particular sense about him has made him bet much loved at Maranello and that's why he has kept his seat IMO. As for 2008, someone hit the nail on the head about his 2008 campaign. That was the easiest championship in the history of the sport to win, and he missed it. Like this person said, lewis wasn't even driving aswell then as we have seen him do later on and still miss out in the title. 2008 was the year 5 drivers "didnt" want the title. When I mean that, it was up for grabs for a few drivers and no one seemed to take a solid hold on the trophey till the end of the season. It's sad like I said, as when Schumi retired in 2006 and I heard felipe was going to lead the team with Raikkonen, I was nervous. But he drove very well, shame we havnt seen more of the Massa from 06-1st half of 09. Sauber seems like his best option. What a sad story.

[Massa 0]

I tend to think Massa is as good as he's ever been at the moment. So much is made of his accident in 2009, yet no one ever talks about the car he was driving in 2008. A car for the first time in his career that was with Schumi's "advice" catered to his driving style. Thus finally having a car that matches his style, he shone brightly that year, and sadly for him won then didn't win the WDC.

He's still atrocious in the wet, and is able to spin his car going in a straight line. Those parts about him haven't changed. But it's too simplistic to state he's never been the same since his accident. A more accurate way of describing it is, he hasn't had the same results since his accident. So what's changed. The car has changed. Schumi was gone from the team, and he had a young up and comer teammate by the name of Alonso. I hear great things about him.

He would have 1 win to his name had Smedely not told him Alonso was faster than him.

I'm not a Massa fan, but it irritates me to no end, to see comments bandied about, how he's not the same driver as before his accident, when the changes to the team, the car, his team mate etc., have had way more of an affect on him. You can't tell me he's driving with the same level of confidence and team support as he was in 2008. Thus the "accident" I feel is not the reason he hasn't had good results.

Great post, in my opinion.

I don't know where the notion that Massa was ever a better driver comes from. His driving has always been erratic and inconsistent. High-potential, able to beat almost anyone in the right situation on his day, but very rarely operating as such. He actually score fewer points per race in 2008, his "wonderful year," than he did in 2007, a year in which he was a clear number two to Räikkönen (having had to yield to him in two races, I recall). 2008 is far from Massa's best year of driving; it was just the worst year for everyone else, with all the other competitors finding ways to eliminate themselves from contention until someone finally had to win it.

People forget that in 2010, after three races, the first three races of Massa's comeback, Felipe was leading the points. Ahead of Alonso, ahead of everyone. He was no worse a driver when he came back; he was exactly the same in 2010. Able to run better than anyone for a short period of time so long as everyone else was operating at their very worst (as they were in 2008).

Massa's change was in confidence. He got a weird taste of number one status in 2008 after Ferrari found any excuse (I believe it was two races out of the points) to demote Räikkönen, and he absolutely choked in a year that he could have put it all away with many races left. Yes, there were team errors in the pits, and sad mechanical failures in 2008. However, it was still the mathematical "easiest" year to win a championship (as in lowest points per race) in a long time. BMW-Sauber flat-out withdrew from development while Kubica had the lead. Hamilton drove the worst year of his life (and then won it anyway). Alonso was in the Renault, Vettel was in the STR, and Button was in the Honda. The other McLaren had Kovalainen in it, and the other Ferrari was granted number two status. It was a thrilling year, but only because everyone was making it impossible to win.

He's exactly the same driver. Every characteristic people observed in Massa then (this forum was filled with comments about him spinning all over the place, as he did many times at the start of that year, and remarks that he could only ever win from pole) still applies now. Nothing changed. He's still fast enough to out-qualify Alonso from time-to-time. He's still good enough to finish on the podium in the right circumstances. He's still inconsistent enough to be such a pain. He'd come just as close to the WDC again if he were the number one and if Alonso, Vettel, and Button were in lesser cars than he was, and if Hamilton were making errors or plagued with mechanical failures, and if Rosberg's team stopped caring. Then, he'd still lose, the way he did in 2008...

...because that's exactly who Massa is as a driver: someone who gives you the greatest of hopes every now and then, only to falter. The car drives Massa. It is above his capabilities. Vettel or Button may have won their WDCs in the greatest equipment, and Button certainly has struggled when the car isn't to his liking, but they were also great enough drivers to match the car given to them and do what needed to be done. They mastered the highest-performing cars, and that's sort of what we should praise drivers for doing. Massa could not be the master of his car.

(I've made this same post before, several times. I am aware of that).

Sauber seems like his best option. What a sad story.

Will Sauber be an option? I assumed not. Sirotkin is guaranteed; if Sirotkin is not there, the team's rescue deal fell through, so then the team wouldn't be there, anyway. Gutiérrez is funded. If he moves on, Ferrari have stated recently that Bianchi is ready to go to Sauber, and I assume there'd be some sweetenings of that deal to convince Sauber of it (plus, Bianchi brings funding, anyway, as far as I know). I'm not sure the team's environment will lend itself to Massa joining right now.

I think he will be out of F1, and while he's shown great character at many times, it can only be sad to a certain point for me. I want F1 to be competitive, and the consequence of that is realizing that no driver gets perpetual employment in this sport, no matter how much I like him or her. The quality of the field is heightened by having Räikkönen at Ferrari, so, in theory, the race-viewing process should be, too.

[KoolMonkey 0]

You are free to disagree WebRic, but I maintain I am right in the sense that the question is not that Massa is not the same driver as he once was, rather he has not produced the same results are he used to. Thus by proxy the end result might look the same, but the cause it not the same.

Massa, I think Sauber could be an option. I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to give Sauber a big discount on their engines for them to employ Massa. Thus the net result is that it kind of equals a pay driver coming in with alot of $$.

Who here honestly thinks Sirotkin is going to be anything other than a Petrov, but probably worse. He's only there due to his rich daddy. Gutierrez, even with his massive backing, might not be there either.

Going back to Massa, I do feel for him in some ways, and in another not really. The things he said after Kimi was let go by Ferrari were classless, and akin to school ground stuff. Kimi supported Massa during 2008. He had no beef with Kimi at all. No incidents, no issues. Thus his comments about how great the team now was, as though it was suddenly better now that Kimi wasn't around was certainly for me lacking in class. It wasn't needed. But he lacks diplomatic skills I think.

[dribbler 6]

I tend to think Massa is as good as he's ever been at the moment. So much is made of his accident in 2009, yet no one ever talks about the car he was driving in 2008. A car for the first time in his career that was with Schumi's "advice" catered to his driving style. Thus finally having a car that matches his style, he shone brightly that year, and sadly for him won then didn't win the WDC.

He's still atrocious in the wet, and is able to spin his car going in a straight line. Those parts about him haven't changed. But it's too simplistic to state he's never been the same since his accident. A more accurate way of describing it is, he hasn't had the same results since his accident. So what's changed. The car has changed. Schumi was gone from the team, and he had a young up and comer teammate by the name of Alonso. I hear great things about him.

He would have 1 win to his name had Smedely not told him Alonso was faster than him.

I'm not a Massa fan, but it irritates me to no end, to see comments bandied about, how he's not the same driver as before his accident, when the changes to the team, the car, his team mate etc., have had way more of an affect on him. You can't tell me he's driving with the same level of confidence and team support as he was in 2008. Thus the "accident" I feel is not the reason he hasn't had good results.

If Massa is still the driver he was pre-accident, the people who really know (ie the other teams) will snap him up, won't they.

Won't they?

[Massa 0]

Won't they?

No. Not if the argument is "Massa was as flawed then as he is now," instead of "Massa is as good now as he is then." It's not that Massa is better now than some are seeing; it's that they saw Massa as being better than he actually ever was once. Teams wouldn't have signed him with any more desperation if he became available after 2008, in my opinion, assuming similar circumstances (i.e. some teams requiring money, and those requiring less or none having other options).

[KoolMonkey 0]

Yeah that's a good point Massa, it's not that he was ever great, it's that people thought he was better than he really was. And the main argument to all of this I feel, is that he beat Kimi for a season. Thus if he beat Kimi, never mind that Ferrari designed a car to not suit him but to suit Massa, he must surely be a great driver!

He's a consistently inconsistent good driver, but not a great. The main reason Ferrari signed Massa was a #2. It's not as though they haven't shown him patience. If he was there to be a #1, he would have been fired years ago. He wasn't. He was there as the #2, and thus their levels of expectation, of his performances were clearly very very low. There is no other way to justify a driver been retained by Ferrari for so many years, with such a mediocre performance history.

So although Sauber might pick him up, due to Ferrari possibly giving them a big discount on their engines, Force India, Williams maybe since Smedley is going there or Caterham might be interested in his services.

However, the value to those teams isn't going to be as much as his value to Ferrari since he was their lackey. He did whatever they asked or told him to do. Thus you would not have found any other team wiling to have hired him for 8 long years based on purely his results.

[radical-one 0]

Massa will drive for LOTUS in 2014

[KoolMonkey 0]

Lotus are Williams are his current "options" in the media.

I can't see Maldonado lasting to be honest without his drug money paying the bills. Now that his country has a new leader, it's very possible PDSVA won't be a title sponsor for next year. And that means he's gone for someone else who can either bring some $$, or a driver good enough to actually get paid by the team. Massa doesn't fit either of those roles. But he could potentially entice Petrobras or some other Brazillian company to bring some backing. I don't think this is really likely though.

As for Lotus, I can't see that happening. Massa instead of the Hulk? no chance.

Sauber has to be an option, even if a slim on due to his history and Ferrari's history with the team. Force India I think could work as well. Maybe Caterham. Whose left? Marussia.

[Emmcee 0]

Lotus are Williams are his current "options" in the media.

I can't see Maldonado lasting to be honest without his drug money paying the bills. Now that his country has a new leader, it's very possible PDSVA won't be a title sponsor for next year. And that means he's gone for someone else who can either bring some $$, or a driver good enough to actually get paid by the team. Massa doesn't fit either of those roles. But he could potentially entice Petrobras or some other Brazillian company to bring some backing. I don't think this is really likely though.

As for Lotus, I can't see that happening. Massa instead of the Hulk? no chance.

Sauber has to be an option, even if a slim on due to his history and Ferrari's history with the team. Force India I think could work as well. Maybe Caterham. Whose left? Marussia.

Yeah you sound right there. But do you really think he would go to caterham or marussia just to stay in f1?

[KoolMonkey 0]

Well we've seen it before from Rubens. Talk of I will quit F1 if I lose my seat. As though it's some ultimatum. OH NO! is what he's hoping the reaction will be, stay we will give you a drive.

But then desperation kicks in and they will look at the lower teams with a new set of eyes.

He might have a shot at Williams though if Smedely goes there. But I don't think he has a chance at Lotus who I'm sure will pick up the Hulk. So it's going to be the lesser teams and depending on how big his pride is, will determine what happens.

[Emmcee 0]

Well we've seen it before from Rubens. Talk of I will quit F1 if I lose my seat. As though it's some ultimatum. OH NO! is what he's hoping the reaction will be, stay we will give you a drive.

But then desperation kicks in and they will look at the lower teams with a new set of eyes.

He might have a shot at Williams though if Smedely goes there. But I don't think he has a chance at Lotus who I'm sure will pick up the Hulk. So it's going to be the lesser teams and depending on how big his pride is, will determine what happens.

Very well put, I could actually see him in the Williams with smedly, but if you where lotus you would have to pick hulk. I mean someone needs to give this kid the bloody chance he needs. He has been dupped a few times, you can see it straight away, every time he is behind the wheel. This kid has got it. I think grosjean will stay at lotus too, unfortunately so IMO its Williams or sauber as I Beleive sauber would take him back over Gutierrez IF he isn't expecting a pay check, I mean look at timo glock, I don't think he was getting much at all from virgin/marussia and at the end it was nothing. The question is like you said, how big is his pride, and will the pure desire of just simply "racing" outweigh his wallet? After all, inst that why they do it? Because they love to race.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Massa has made plenty of money from his years at Ferrari, so yeah if his desire is to race, not earning anything won't hurt him. I actually like the idea of him going to Williams. I don't know much about Bottas, but have heard a few things he's pretty good. I've never liked Maldonado, and after his attempts at crashing into a driver on purpose, I've been looking forward to the day he gets the boot. That is unforgiveable in the modern era of F1, and I don't care how much sponsorship you bring to the table. The way I see it, as soon as his backing is gone, he will be too.

Latest news is Lotus is deciding between the Hulk and Massa. Unless they are wanting to hire Massa for his inside knowledge of Ferrari, I can't see how that is a better prospect long term. The Hulk needs a top seat now, and like many felt McLaren stuffed up bigtime in signing Perez over him.

[Emmcee 0]

Massa has made plenty of money from his years at Ferrari, so yeah if his desire is to race, not earning anything won't hurt him. I actually like the idea of him going to Williams. I don't know much about Bottas, but have heard a few things he's pretty good. I've never liked Maldonado, and after his attempts at crashing into a driver on purpose, I've been looking forward to the day he gets the boot. That is unforgiveable in the modern era of F1, and I don't care how much sponsorship you bring to the table. The way I see it, as soon as his backing is gone, he will be too.

Latest news is Lotus is deciding between the Hulk and Massa. Unless they are wanting to hire Massa for his inside knowledge of Ferrari, I can't see how that is a better prospect long term. The Hulk needs a top seat now, and like many felt McLaren stuffed up bigtime in signing Perez over him.

Well I felt Mclaren absolutely shot themselves in the foot over Perez and hulk. 100% agree on Maldonado, this sposorship thing required nowadays is making a mockery of the sport from an outsiders perspective. I mean this is what needs to be done in lower formulas, but f1, they pinnacle of circuit racing? What a joke.

[Massa 0]

Williams have a Formula One Grand Prix winner bringing $40,000,000 per year who is voluntarily staying with the team even though he could go to Lotus. They're not going to replace him with Felipe Massa. No way. Maldonado has won, he's shown tremendous pace, he's been far less controversial this year (a season out of the spotlight with a bad car had the one upside that Maldonado and Bottas get to learn in secrecy; Maldonado's errors last year all occurred while he was in or around the points, making them extra painful. This year, without that pressure, he's been able to run more steadily).

Massa has two options, in my opinion: Lotus and leave F1. There is no other seat for him that I can see. Ferrari will not help him go to Sauber when Ferrari specifically prefer Bianchi moving to Sauber; the team said so very recently. Williams will not have an opening. His contact with McLaren likely was initiated by his manager, and promptly laughed off with a "you never know." I doubt McLaren change the lineup at all. Pérez has a lot left to improve upon, but the points forget to tell you of the tire blowout at Silverstone while running ahead of Button, the Canadian Grand Prix in which he beat Button but neither scored points (such that it is considered a 0-0 tie, when it was actually a Pérez win), and the last race, in which a 4.5 second pit stop totally changed another likely-to-beat-Button race. Pérez is close. He really is. I know people don't like him because he brings money and everyone lives in a bizarre state of spite that frowns upon anyone who found some means of entering the grid. He's a pleasure to watch, though. It's not his fault that someone saw value in backing him. Telmex/América Móvil isn't a family thing or whatever. What difference does it make if a sponsor is connected to a driver or a team? The "team" sponsors can be there for merit, for connections, for other relationships, whatever. Same with "driver" sponsorships. I see no difference. It's a company that would not sponsor Pérez if there were no value in sponsoring Pérez. Maldonado is not the only driver funded by PDVSA or other Venezuelan government entities; tons of them are in GP2, IndyCar, and sports cars. Maldonado is in F1 because he earned it; those drivers did not get the PDVSA funding to do F1 because they did not. Telmex is the same way. NASCAR, sports cars, junior formulae...they've been everywhere. Why didn't they take Toño Pérez, or Salvador Durán, or Pablo Sánchez López, or Memo Rojas, or Germán Quiroga, or Dany Suárez, or any of the other drivers they back/have backed to F1? Because Sergio Pérez was the only one who earned a spot.

It's amazing to think that there's no merit in bringing funding to a team, that this money is just loosely thrown around to anyone born in a certain country or whatever. It's amazing to then think that there is merit in funding that originates with the team. Shouldn't we be outraged that reputable companies like GE, Dell, Airbus, etc. are with Caterham due to AirAsia and other B2B relationships outside of F1? Shouldn't we demand they drop Caterham and sponsor Red Bull's team instead? Why aren't we mad if Santander wants Alonso to stay at Ferrari, or if Shell wanted Räikkönen to join as rumored? Sure, Santander and Shell are team sponsors, not driver sponsors, but like driver sponsors, they want certain people to represent them. They balance a lot of factors. Ability is a factor in it. Maldonado has ability superior to Viso et al. He has F1 ability. Pérez has ability to Durán et al. He has F1 ability, and was hired by McLaren without any personal backing for, at a minimum, the year 2013 (given that Vodafone is a direct competitor of América Móvil).

I wonder if the referenced outsiders even know that this goes on. I feel as if the "insiders" are more bothered by it, because they cling to notions of purity and false history, as if F1 was "pay driver"-free forever (it never, ever was. It was instead filled by a larger percentage of these drivers, and by a lower quality of these drivers). I would think outsiders would have to know a lot more than people who don't pay attention to something would conceivably know to understand how everyone on the grid got a ride.

Maybe I'm wrong there.

Regardless, I favor Hülkenberg over Massa for Lotus because there's more upside to that, and it probably comes at a better price. I want to see Hülkenberg in a better car because I never seem to notice him.

(I think I am more inclined to notice the flashy prospects...the Pérez, Maldonado, or Grosjean...those who are making a lot of noise, sometimes good, sometimes disastrous. The subtly good ones like Hülkenberg are likely the better, more complete drivers, but I am too obtuse to see that. )

[Quiet One 15]

A post so brilliant I had to wear shades to read it. Boullier agrees with me than next year experience will be worth more than speed, though, so Massa might still have some good offers coming. He's no top driver, but they will need hard workers and if he gets some confidence back he can be certainly fast. Don't think he will suck as much as he did in ferrari everywhere else. Some team principals certainly don't.

[Rainmaster 7]

Massa says he won't play a supporting role for Alonso for the rest of the year. No doubt just a meaningless sentiment, but an odd thing to publicly announce, in my opinion.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109920

[Quiet One 15]

Massa says he won't play a supporting role for Alonso for the rest of the year. No doubt just a meaningless sentiment, but an odd thing to publicly announce, in my opinion.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109920

To say that he is not helping Alonso anymore is like me saying that I'm not going to support Mensa anymore.

Anyways, it is a comprehensible statement, he made it for the Brazilian media to be consumed by the Brazilian public.

BTW, there's another reason to keep Massa around. Nevermind the sponsors, no brazilian in F1 means an empty Interlagos. Not sure F1 can afford that.