What Now For Massa?

[Rainmaster 7]

I didn't want to get into the fact that supporting role meant pretty much nothing

[KoolMonkey 0]

Massa, I had read that after Chavez died, there was mention that would effect PDVSA's sponsorship of Williams. I thought it was $30m, so $40m is huge. It's almost as though Williams know it won't last so are grabbing it with two hands.

I just can't see them pumping $40m a year into a team like that for medium sized red lettering on the side of the Williams car and not much else to show for it. Sooner rather than later, it's going to run out, and as we've seen, sponsorship always trumps experience when it comes to the back end of the grid. No matter what they "say", all those smaller teams have shown us $$ > experience. So once his backing dries up, Maldonado won't be at Williams anymore.

I like that Massa has said he won't drive for Alonso again. But we'll see if that actually does happen on the racetrack. He hasn't had to give up any race wins to Alonso this year, and I think maybe has only had to let him past on a few occasions, so he hasn't really been put out that much this year anyway. I will say the whole drafting thing at Monza was absurd though.

Anyway I hope he truly just guns it and goes for it. But I suspect he'll be toeing the party line when it comes down to it.

[Emmcee 0]

Massa, I had read that after Chavez died, there was mention that would effect PDVSA's sponsorship of Williams. I thought it was $30m, so $40m is huge. It's almost as though Williams know it won't last so are grabbing it with two hands.

I just can't see them pumping $40m a year into a team like that for medium sized red lettering on the side of the Williams car and not much else to show for it. Sooner rather than later, it's going to run out, and as we've seen, sponsorship always trumps experience when it comes to the back end of the grid. No matter what they "say", all those smaller teams have shown us $$ > experience. So once his backing dries up, Maldonado won't be at Williams anymore.

I like that Massa has said he won't drive for Alonso again. But we'll see if that actually does happen on the racetrack. He hasn't had to give up any race wins to Alonso this year, and I think maybe has only had to let him past on a few occasions, so he hasn't really been put out that much this year anyway. I will say the whole drafting thing at Monza was absurd though.

Anyway I hope he truly just guns it and goes for it. But I suspect he'll be toeing the party line when it comes down to it.

Why would he but? It's not like there going to turn around and go " ohh sorry felipe, since your doing the right thing, you can stay" they bloody sacked him, I would be doing the same, but I would stick to my word. If felipe goes against what he has said, ill have a totally different opinion about him from that point on.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Luca's already made a comment that as far as he's concerned Massa will do what is best for the team, including helping Alonso.

Massa's comments are bluster, and they were meant for his Brazilian base. I mean it when I say it would be nice if he really did go flat out and race for himself, but it won't happen. Ferrari do not tolerate insubordination. For that matter if Webber was at Ferrari and had done the things he's done, talking badly in public about his team, he'd have been shown the door.

It's been awhile, but seem to even remember this kind of attitude from Rubens too. In the end, this is just talk from Massa. He will do his best naturally as he's still chasing a seat in F1. But he won't be pulling a Webber ala Brazil 2012 either. He's been subservient for far too long, and I think it's actually in his nature too, not just in his contract. So he won't be pushing Alonso off any circuit, or cutting in front of him, or any of those things.

[Emmcee 0]

Luca's already made a comment that as far as he's concerned Massa will do what is best for the team, including helping Alonso.

Massa's comments are bluster, and they were meant for his Brazilian base. I mean it when I say it would be nice if he really did go flat out and race for himself, but it won't happen. Ferrari do not tolerate insubordination. For that matter if Webber was at Ferrari and had done the things he's done, talking badly in public about his team, he'd have been shown the door.

It's been awhile, but seem to even remember this kind of attitude from Rubens too. In the end, this is just talk from Massa. He will do his best naturally as he's still chasing a seat in F1. But he won't be pulling a Webber ala Brazil 2012 either. He's been subservient for far too long, and I think it's actually in his nature too, not just in his contract. So he won't be pushing Alonso off any circuit, or cutting in front of him, or any of those things.

Yeah but Massa has been booted, why would he do it? Just incase they want him back? Ha yeah right, I would see him as a pussy if he backed down from his words now. It can't get any worse for him than what it is now, so if I were him. Bat out of hell till the end. F@$k Ferrari.

[KoolMonkey 0]

No it's not to get Ferrari to change their minds and keep him, it's for other teams to see his temperament. Teams don't want loose cannons and destabilizes. Thus Massa won't be doing himself any favours by then not helping the team. Also don't put it past Luca to replace him before the year is out, if he pulled some stunt that affected Alonso.

It's all words and hot air for his Brazilian base. He will continue to do what he's done for all these years and say, yes sir, uh huh, right away sir. Just wait and see. Nothing will change. Not because he's trying to make Ferrari change their minds, or have them rehire him, but because it's in his temperament. He doesn't have the killer instinct, the Schumi, the Vettel in him. He's a pleaser, and will do as he's told. Luca even said that too haha

[Massa 0]

So, there's a blurb out there about Massa and Williams. Only a blurb, and certainly, Massa's alleged funding wouldn't do much to replace Maldonado's...

http://www.gptoday.c...in_at_Williams/

...however, one now must wonder if Maldonado's funding is what they say it is. E. J. Viso, another driver backed by PDVSA, is out of IndyCar this weekend. The team is claiming that he is "ill," but other reports from Venezuela say that payments have not been arriving to the team...

http://www.el-nacion..._282571983.html

There is no reason to link the two together yet. Coincidental timing is all. Still, it could make the Massa rumors more credible, and makes one wonder if Maldonado saying that he would "leave F1" if he can't get a good car, in contrast to what he had said so recently that he wanted to stay with Williams and rebuild them, is really the situation.

[Massa 0]

FOX News is now reporting that all payments have been suspended to all Venezuelan auto and motorcycle racers. Pardon me for not sharing the link; I just didn't have the heart to drive traffic when I saw that "FAIR AND BALANCED" header at the top...

...but anyway, if true, things are going to change. And that would be, from a racing standpoint, something of a shame. Not that Maldonado is WDC material, but he was better than he was allowed credit for, in my opinion. One would say, then, "well, why can't he stand on his own merits?" and I get that. He didn't have a very long time, though, to prove what he could do, and I'm not going to pretend he's the most-qualified driver on ability alone. Hülkenberg deserves a ride first. I'm not so sure Massa does, though, but oh, well.

[Emmcee 0]

Mate there are plenty of decent drivers without a seat due to pay drivers like Maldonado. Kobayashi anyone?

[Massa 0]

Not sure Kobayashi is significantly better than Maldonado, but subjective observations aside:

The ride was not open to Kobayashi, or any other non-pay driver. The ride was only open to Maldonado, or another driver with Maldonado's funding. Had that funding not been there from any driver, either Williams would not exist, or Williams would be even worse than it is today.

You can't say they are without a seat due to drivers like Maldonado taking them; the seats were never available, at least as they are, to the other drivers.

If pay drivers bother you (they don't bother me, as everyone knows, but I understand that a lot of people are frustrated by the concept), don't blame the pay drivers themselves. Blame the environment F1 has created. Blame high costs from all sorts of things, blame the lack of value for sponsors to back a team rather than a driver, blame the declining viewership worldwide, etc. It's not Maldonado, or Pérez, or Chilton doing this, and it certainly isn't a new thing.

In fact, one might say the problem must be worsening, and yet in the "golden age," only five or six drivers were actually paid by the teams. The only change has been even more funding (even when adjusted for inflation) is now required versus then (about 1970 or 1971).

What else has changed?

The fact that these pay drivers, the ones we have today, are professional drivers who have gone through the same ladder systems (successfully) as any other. They're far more prepared, and far more talented, than we've ever seen before.

[Quiet One 15]

Indeed.

[Emmcee 0]

No I understand pay drivers a needed but I think there is currently to many and besides I'd thought I'd never see the day that Williams needed one. I mean easy to say they do based of today's results, but if we had this conversation 15yrs ago, bet ya Williams would never pop into out heads. I guess iam still sour over Rubens loosing his seat to Maldonado. Just feels like anyone could drive f1 of you have the cash and it shouldn't be like that.

[F1 FANatic 1]

So while I was watching Quali for Japan on NBC, the guys there said that it came to light that even if Maldinado wanted to leave Williams he can't. Apparently he tried to get the lotus seat but Williams has a one way release clause. Only Williams can fire Maldinado. He can't quit without paying the entire sum of the sponsorship that is still owed them over the next two years. So from the looks of it he will stay at Williams through 2015 or he will have an $80 Million buyout. Somehow I don't think PDSVA is going to pay 80 million to NOT sponsor Williams.

The real question becomes what will Williams do if they don't get payed?

[Emmcee 0]

Apparently all funding from this particular company towards all Venezuelan racers has been suspended for reasons only known to themselves I Beleive.

[Massa 0]

Actually, it has been suspended for an investigation of corruption and fraud:

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268756/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=dMJWTD0u

[rwgordon 0]

Agreed, would be very valuable to a team like Sauber

[Emmcee 0]

Actually, it has been suspended for an investigation of corruption and fraud:

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268756/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=dMJWTD0u

Why doesn't that surprise me? What insnt corrupted and fraudulent these days? The whole bloody sport is if you ask me, just ask romain and mark.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Sauber.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah sauber it Williams is where he will end up imo

[Insider 0]

Williams looks to be the option right now and with Rob Smedley on his way there too, it will be a boost for the team. Massa will shine I am sure.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Williams do like having Brazilian drivers in their team. Even though he's lost his edge since Hungary 09 I still think he'd bring a lot to Williams, especially since they've been struggling quite badly in recent years. Also any excuse to get Maldonado out of F1 is fine by me

[Insider 0]

Unfortunately, Mad Donald is in high demand because of his $20m sponsorship package and will probably get a seat somewhere. My guess would be Lotus or Force India. It's inevitable that half the drivers in the sport will be paying for their rides.

[Emmcee 0]

Unfortunately, Mad Donald is in high demand because of his $20m sponsorship package and will probably get a seat somewhere. My guess would be Lotus or Force India. It's inevitable that half the drivers in the sport will be paying for their rides.

Yep that's the way it is, sad actually. It's not mad Donald either. It's Pasta Marinara.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Damn pay drivers! Once there was only a few of those in the mid nineties who were only getting drives for the crap teams. Nowadays, the half decent teams are gonna have pay drivers racing their cars. Tis a shame really for the talented upcoming drivers who have little chance of making it big in F1

[Massa 0]

Mid-nineties?

I have a very hard time saying this grid is better than today's, personally, whether the rides were paid for by the driver or the team:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_1995#Drivers_and_constructors

Perhaps the pay drivers are in better cars because the quality of pay driver is much higher.

Certainly, it is sad that Jaime Alguersuari did not have a longer run in F1, and that Esteban Guerrieri never made it. Maybe Giorgio Pantano is missed, too, and a few others. Still, those flashes of ability from Pérez, Maldonado, Bianchi, Sutil, and others who are paying for their seats...I hope they aren't missed by those who wish not to support the way they entered F1. Sometimes, they look they belong amongst the best, and I really hope one of the younger ones does develop into that role. A consistent Pérez or Maldonado, racing in a top-level car, would be the most exciting thing on the track, I'd bet.