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Emmcee

Singapore Gp

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It's not like Vettel lucking into a championship with a greater driver breaking down with unreliable machinery...

Nah, now you are talking crap. You got your years confused, you seem to be talking about 2005 when it is rather obvious that you meant 2007 ;)

If I were you I wouldn't get into a competition over:

a) Lucky championships.(2005 was only lucky in your imagination, whereas 2007...)

B) Votes for driver of the year (Alonso is the top winner in tha category in the past years)

Now, let's leave the friendly gibe aside and focus on your objection to my argument:

You mention the level of artistry. I am guessing you refer to the RBR-Vettel domination. Well, I already mentioned that it is an amazing technical feat, call it an artistic achievement if you want to, the issue still remains. People gets bored. Look at Jay's status message for a precise explanation. They are great, but that's boring. If (when) they win the 4 WDC it will be more than deserved. Nobody doubts the awesomeness of the RBR, nobody denies the hard work and talent of Vettel.

But it's booooooring...Let's be grateful, though. The field behind Vettel is a million times better than in Schumi's domination era.

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http://www.f1zone.net/news/webber-handed-10-place-penalty-for-korea/20487/

First reaction: Those b#####ds! Why don't they pay attention to what is really important???

Second reaction: Harsh, but fair. It was not the first time they are reprimanded for this. Both are not exactly rookies, they should know better. Then again, perhaps they know better and simply didn't give a damn :lol:

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http://www.f1zone.ne...or-korea/20487/

First reaction: Those b#####ds! Why don't they pay attention to what is really important???

Second reaction: Harsh, but fair. It was not the first time they are reprimanded for this. Both are not exactly rookies, they should know better. Then again, perhaps they know better and simply didn't give a damn laugh.png

Some are even saying that they got away lightly:

http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/09/22/alonso-lift-lands-webber-korean-gp-grid-penalty/

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Nah, now you are talking crap. You got your years confused, you seem to be talking about 2005 when it is rather obvious that you meant 2007 wink.png

If I were you I wouldn't get into a competition over:

a) Lucky championships.(2005 was only lucky in your imagination, whereas 2007...)

cool.png Votes for driver of the year (Alonso is the top winner in tha category in the past years)

I would'nt bring up 2007, because Kimi was unlucky first b4 he got "lucky". Go check his retirement stats before he went on to the most wins of the season...

Now with Alonso 2005 on the other hand.... BULLETPROOF and FAST....man, even last year he almost got gifted the championship by being so lucky during first half of the year....

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You mention the level of artistry. I am guessing you refer to the RBR-Vettel domination. Well, I already mentioned that it is an amazing technical feat, call it an artistic achievement if you want to, the issue still remains. People gets bored. Look at Jay's status message for a precise explanation. They are great, but that's boring. If (when) they win the 4 WDC it will be more than deserved. Nobody doubts the awesomeness of the RBR, nobody denies the hard work and talent of Vettel.

But it's booooooring...Let's be grateful, though. The field behind Vettel is a million times better than in Schumi's domination era.

exactly :)

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A good description from one of the commentators: A podium of warriors.

Excellent.

Complete domination by Vettel, can't remember when I last saw such a performance. Brilliant drives by Alonso and Räikkönen as well, all three of them were in a league of their own today.

His 3rd Grand Slam, indeed.

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As for the race, yes it was a boring masterclass. I'm sure it's true that when you take away unpredictability from sport it becomes boring, and that's the main issue with people being bored and booing.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no idea why it should be the case that being bored is considered some terrible negative aspect, and that's for at least two reasons. First of all, our boredom or happiness from watching sports isn't actually based on anything meaningful. It's just based on arbitrary things like whether you like the driver who is winning, or how much you appreciate the technical aspect of F1, or how much you like overtaking, etc, which are again based on base level arbitrary things like which country you are born in and your cultural sensibilities and so on. I suppose what I'm saying is (which is completely contrary to the point of watching sport for most people, by the way) that we should not consider our boredom or happiness particularly important when it comes to sporting events, which is counter-intuitive because we always give our own experiences the most weighting because it's all we have "experience" of, and we should just accept the fact that other people would find it interesting or boring as we found it the opposite. I'm sure someone like Adrian Newey would find any motor-race interesting, especially an F1 race, because he has such a great level of insight into the mechanical and aerodynamical working of the car that simply seeing the cars working is enough for him to be captivated (obviously he has other reasons to be interested, but you get the point).

The other sense in which saying it's boring doesn't really mean anything to me is that you couldn't have sports events without having boring sports events, so in what sense exactly is boredom a negative consequence of predictable sporting events or championships that become predictable? We might as well say that lack of heat is a negative characteristic of snow or that draws are a negative characteristic of chess. It just doesn't mean anything to say that. I mean so what if it was boring? It hardly gets you any further descriptively that just saying it was a race you watched.

But yes, I found the race largely quite boring, almost falling asleep at times (was a beautfiful warm day here), but people should deal with that and accept boring sports events are part of reality just like snow is part of a weather system, and our own experience of stuff like this is not so important. I don't think I am explaining what I mean too well and again, rambling too much...but just get over it :D

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Even Lauda has come out and said the booing is essentially BS. And he's right. It shows a very clear ignorance of the "fans" that are doing it. Webber has also come out against it.

Vettel is in a class of his own. It's amazing how many apparent reasons why people boo him too, from he's arogant, to a cheater, to it's not really him it's RBR they "cheat" all the time, so he sucks, the list goes on.

It's not good for the sport no matter who you support. There were times when it was needed like those times Schumi was gifted wins by Rubens, but only on those occasions.

Vettel didn't put a put or wheel wrong, drove a flawless race and still get's booed. This only makes me admire the guy more. He's no using drugs, he's not running a dog fighting ring, or screwing 20 hookers all around the world. The guy's life is F1. He lives it , he breaths it. He spends hours looking at the data AFTER he wins a race.

I can guarantee you, the model for the young drivers in motorsport is Vettel. That is who they are emulating and looking up to.

I didn't find the race boring at all. The only beef I had was the incredibly long safety car period when Ricci's car was cleared within 1 lap of it happening. Stupid we then burn another 6-7 laps before racing can resume.

Vettel will win this years WDC, and he'll be a 4x in a row WDC. Epic. The booers can boo all they want, but it won't change the fact he's the best driver of this generation of drivers.

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Even Lauda has come out and said the booing is essentially BS. And he's right. It shows a very clear ignorance of the "fans" that are doing it. Webber has also come out against it.

Vettel is in a class of his own. It's amazing how many apparent reasons why people boo him too, from he's arogant, to a cheater, to it's not really him it's RBR they "cheat" all the time, so he sucks, the list goes on.

It's not good for the sport no matter who you support. There were times when it was needed like those times Schumi was gifted wins by Rubens, but only on those occasions.

Vettel didn't put a put or wheel wrong, drove a flawless race and still get's booed. This only makes me admire the guy more. He's no using drugs, he's not running a dog fighting ring, or screwing 20 hookers all around the world. The guy's life is F1. He lives it , he breaths it. He spends hours looking at the data AFTER he wins a race.

I can guarantee you, the model for the young drivers in motorsport is Vettel. That is who they are emulating and looking up to.

I didn't find the race boring at all. The only beef I had was the incredibly long safety car period when Ricci's car was cleared within 1 lap of it happening. Stupid we then burn another 6-7 laps before racing can resume.

Vettel will win this years WDC, and he'll be a 4x in a row WDC. Epic. The booers can boo all they want, but it won't change the fact he's the best driver of this generation of drivers.

beautiful

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As for the race, yes it was a boring masterclass. I'm sure it's true that when you take away unpredictability from sport it becomes boring, and that's the main issue with people being bored and booing.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no idea why it should be the case that being bored is considered some terrible negative aspect, and that's for at least two reasons. First of all, our boredom or happiness from watching sports isn't actually based on anything meaningful. It's just based on arbitrary things like whether you like the driver who is winning, or how much you appreciate the technical aspect of F1, or how much you like overtaking, etc, which are again based on base level arbitrary things like which country you are born in and your cultural sensibilities and so on. I suppose what I'm saying is (which is completely contrary to the point of watching sport for most people, by the way) that we should not consider our boredom or happiness particularly important when it comes to sporting events, which is counter-intuitive because we always give our own experiences the most weighting because it's all we have "experience" of, and we should just accept the fact that other people would find it interesting or boring as we found it the opposite. I'm sure someone like Adrian Newey would find any motor-race interesting, especially an F1 race, because he has such a great level of insight into the mechanical and aerodynamical working of the car that simply seeing the cars working is enough for him to be captivated (obviously he has other reasons to be interested, but you get the point).

The other sense in which saying it's boring doesn't really mean anything to me is that you couldn't have sports events without having boring sports events, so in what sense exactly is boredom a negative consequence of predictable sporting events or championships that become predictable? We might as well say that lack of heat is a negative characteristic of snow or that draws are a negative characteristic of chess. It just doesn't mean anything to say that. I mean so what if it was boring? It hardly gets you any further descriptively that just saying it was a race you watched.

But yes, I found the race largely quite boring, almost falling asleep at times (was a beautfiful warm day here), but people should deal with that and accept boring sports events are part of reality just like snow is part of a weather system, and our own experience of stuff like this is not so important. I don't think I am explaining what I mean too well and again, rambling too much...but just get over it biggrin.png

I am not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but I don't think it's a big negative aspect to call a race boring, sometimes it is the most apt description. It doesn't mean that we have fallen out of love with F1, or that we are burning our Michael Schumacher onesie, or breaking our Michael Schumacher mug, it just means that this race wasn't very exciting.

Booing should just never happen. Then again, I have been to some football matches where some of the crowd start booing their own team, that's an attitude that I will never comprehend.

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I agree with Paul (ughhh) and I also do not agree that is not a problem if a sport is boring. Sports are above all spectacles. THey do not exist in some ideal world disconnected from the public. I am not even getting into the argument that it is also a business and bored peoople are unsitisfied customers. Even if F1 was a fully amateur sport, being a good spectacle is something central to it.

Once again, just to be absolutely clear: I do not condone the booing, I think that is awful but I also think it is not directed towards Vettel as a person. I only think that people is expressing boredom, more than hatred towards Seb.

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Once again, just to be absolutely clear: I do not condone the booing, I think that is awful but I also think it is not directed towards Vettel as a person. I only think that people is expressing boredom, more than hatred towards Seb.

....Don't mention the war; I did once but think I got away with it.....

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Once again, just to be absolutely clear: I do not condone the booing, I think that is awful but I also think it is not directed towards Vettel as a person. I only think that people is expressing boredom, more than hatred towards Seb.

I'm not so sure, some people loathe him, call him arrogant etc etc

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I'm not so sure, some people loathe him, call him arrogant etc etc

Yes, for example, me :D

But outside of the f1 forums world, where most of us are busier messing up with each other, I can't see Vettel being able to inspire many emotions of loathing or otherwise. He has shown that he can be arrogant, rude and even stupid at times, I would even add cheater according to some (heheh want to punch me in the face now? :P I don't think he cheats but you know some people do) but still not "evil" enough to inspire so much booing. May have made sense in Malaysia because of the Multi 21 thing,but why people would boo him now? For winning by a country mile? Yes, but that's not his fault. They boo for the poor spectacle, and regretfuly for him he is the scapegoat.

Jokes aside, I consider him better than Schumacher as a person (his arrogance and stupidity comes from impulsiveness and if I didn't accept that in him how would I accept that in Alonso?)

So, maybe you are right and people hate him, I just didn't come across many people that hate him, I did saw many people fed up with a supremacy that eliminates any supsense or actual fight in the championship (even Lewis said that). My mental boos, at least, were not directed at him.

But still...he sucks! :P

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They boo for the poor spectacle, and regretfuly for him he is the scapegoat.

yeah, on second thought, I think you're right there... not that it was a poor spectacle in my sight, I thoroughly enjoyed itbiggrin.png but I can understand why fans of the other drivers feel that way.

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I hate Vettel with a passion but at the end of the day, doesn't matter who stands up top there, if they have done the job he did, it demands respect. People who boo to that, have absolutely no idea of respect or about formula one. For some one who has a passion not only to drive formula one cars quick but has an obsession with making himself better, is always going to be unbeatable. Nothing can overpower a correct and confident mindset. And what makes me impressed the most about this kid, is his ability to push like hell on cold tyres and still keep it on the circuit ,its phenomenal. If you have ever tried to push a go kart right away with cold tyres, will have even more respect for the skill the kid possesses.

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I have disliked Hamilton and Alonso at times in their careers. I still respect them, but it doesn't mean I'm hoping they will get a podium either.

You see, I know all about booing in sports. One of the best of recent years is from Rugby Union here in Australia when they play the All Blacks. Since the World Cup, actually since he (Quade Cooper) kneed a living legend in the face twice!, and pretended it was an accident, without even offering up a phony "sorry" let alone a genuine apology, this upstart who thought before he'd even played a game against the All Blacks, was the best #10 to ever live, ended up being the biggest turd to ever play the game. So much so that he was dropped for this toxic behavour and bad influence on other team members. To this day, he's never got even close to his pre-world cup skill level. For the past 3 years since the kneeing incidents, he's been booed relentlessly every single time he's touched the ball, and it's destroyed his game I'm sure of it. In the beginning he deserved to be booed for his unsportsman like behaviour. Now however it's not needed, but it still goes on.

People aren't just booing Vettel like they do in the NFL, or baseball (Bostons vs Yankees). It's not playful "booooooo" with a smile on peoples faces, this seems to have some venom to it. As though people actually do hate Vettel. This will go on for ages. But I bet it he does end up joining Ferrari and starts winning for that team, the Tifosi will be worshiping him like they will be Kimi next year.

People really do believe RBR cheat at every race, purposefully sabotage Webbers car for every race, break every rule in the book, all for Vettel. What a shame these people think this, when we are witnessing a driver who will I believe be known as an ALL time great. Not just a great, but one of the best ever. He'll have the stats Schumi had, but without the baggage. That is sad for them as they aren't seeing that despite RBR making great cars, Vettel is making them even greater. If you were to base the RBR on Webber performances alone in that car over the past 4 years, you wouldn't come out of it thinking great things would you. So I feel for Vettel. He's works his a## off, wins race after race, destroying his comrades, and it's got to hurt for people to turn around and say it's just the car, anyone could win in it. Well Webber can't win it can he.

Multi 21 and all this other fluff will blow over soon enough anyway. No one will remember it all in a few years time accept us F1 aficionados here smile.png

This won't affect his legacy. And probably what will cement it permanently and without the current fuss, is if he does go to Ferrari and keeps on winning. At that point, his detractors will then look like a bunch of uneducated vindictive school yard bullies.

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I hate Vettel with a passion but at the end of the day, doesn't matter who stands up top there, if they have done the job he did, it demands respect. People who boo to that, have absolutely no idea of respect or about formula one. For some one who has a passion not only to drive formula one cars quick but has an obsession with making himself better, is always going to be unbeatable. Nothing can overpower a correct and confident mindset. And what makes me impressed the most about this kid, is his ability to push like hell on cold tyres and still keep it on the circuit ,its phenomenal. If you have ever tried to push a go kart right away with cold tyres, will have even more respect for the skill the kid possesses.

Although you hate Vettel, I appreciate your honest evaluation of him, it's very rare. All you have to do is look around in other F1 chat forums and get a different perspective from other Vettel haters.

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Although you hate Vettel, I appreciate your honest evaluation of him, it's very rare. All you have to do is look around in other F1 chat forums and get a different perspective from other Vettel haters.

I give the same advice as I give to people who read 'biased' media reports and then complain incessantly about them................stop reading them!! I mean, how could you possibly improve on us anyway?? :lol:

The thing is, all joking aside, it's a not too savoury by-product of this 'instant-on', anonymous, online, or whatever you want to call it, world we live in now, . A lot of the stuff that is posted is purely to get a reaction, you jumped up, brainless, idiotic, bollock-breathed, Kimi-worshipper. I am sure there are some people that do truly hate Vettel, but I would hope they are few and far between, but it takes all sorts in this life, I guess.

Obviously, I would never insult anybody online, besides baldy and that's only because we are lovers, so it's allowed.

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Although you hate Vettel, I appreciate your honest evaluation of him, it's very rare. All you have to do is look around in other F1 chat forums and get a different perspective from other Vettel haters.

Thankyou, I can't stand him as a person, but as a race driver, he is the complete package. Although his car is unbeatable someone still has to drive it, it seems he has found an ideal balance with the rb chassis that seems to embrace his driving style. Mark webber wheather you like it or not is a bloody quick driver and that shows vettel's skills even more and webber has beaten every teammate he has ever had with the exception of Vettel. He even outpaced David coulthard, who in his prime was one bloody quick race driver. At the end of the day, weather he leaves rb or not, he will be remembered by us enthusiasts as a driver who basically couldn't be stopped unless mechanical gremlins had there say. Looking at it how we see it now, senna wasn't even this dominant and how high do we hold him in regards to greatness.

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I give the same advice as I give to people who read 'biased' media reports and then complain incessantly about them................stop reading them!! I mean, how could you possibly improve on us anyway?? laugh.png

The thing is, all joking aside, it's a not too savoury by-product of this 'instant-on', anonymous, online, or whatever you want to call it, world we live in now, . A lot of the stuff that is posted is purely to get a reaction, you jumped up, brainless, idiotic, bollock-breathed, Kimi-worshipper. I am sure there are some people that do truly hate Vettel, but I would hope they are few and far between, but it takes all sorts in this life, I guess.

Obviously, I would never insult anybody online, besides baldy and that's only because we are lovers, so it's allowed.

laugh.png

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BTW, on the subject of pay drivers, another solid demonstration from Maldonado, who keeps beating highly rated Bottas. The Williams suck, but that's not Pastor's fault.

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BTW, on the subject of pay drivers, another solid demonstration from Maldonado, who keeps beating highly rated Bottas. The Williams suck, but that's not Pastor's fault.

The analysis over at intelligentf1 blog indicates that Bottas was, actually, much faster than Maldonado in the race. Would be nice to see the numbers, though.

http://intelligentf1.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/singapore-grand-prix-race-notes/

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The analysis over at intelligentf1 blog indicates that Bottas was, actually, much faster than Maldonado in the race. Would be nice to see the numbers, though.

http://intelligentf1...rix-race-notes/

Another take that says the contrary which goes to prove that numbers mean crap :lol:

http://formulaspy.com/features/tm-s-team-mate-battles/907-team-mate-battles-singapore-gp

Anyways, even giving this one to Bottas, they are at least pretty even, and my point is that Pastor might be one of the less charismatic drivers ever, and a bit on the rough side, but has nothing to be ashamed of when paired with non pay drivers.

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Anyways, even giving this one to Bottas, they are at least pretty even, and my point is that Pastor might be one of the less charismatic drivers ever, and a bit on the rough side, but has nothing to be ashamed of when paired with non pay drivers.

Pastor certainly has speed, and he has been much calmer this year (though hard to say to what extent this is due to the car).

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