Vettel Or Alonso, Who Is Better?

[Emmcee 0]

Found this article about drivers saying who they think is the best ATM.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/472854/Vettel_or_Alonso_Formula_1_drivers_divided_over_who_is_the_best/

[BradSpeedMan 6]

For us the answer is quite clear... Sebastian Vettel

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Interesting that NONE of the drivers said vettel except the 2 drivers who are part of the red bull family (Ric & Vergne)

[Emmcee 0]

Interesting that NONE of the drivers said vettel except the 2 drivers who are part of the red bull family (Ric & Vergne)

Lol exactly, I've considered Alonso better than Seb, just his consistancy for so long. His ability to always find a way to get up towards the front of every gp despite his starting position is pretty impressive.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

This is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most about 2014 - new cars, probably a new order and that means seeing how Vettel fares in a car that isnt miles ahead of everyone else.

[Emmcee 0]

This is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most about 2014 - new cars, probably a new order and that means seeing how Vettel fares in a car that isnt miles ahead of everyone else.

Absolutly, who ever can adapt the quickest will be the one to beat. What else made me laugh is the same website I got this story from has one on "Is Chilton better than Alonso"? I couldn't Beleive I just saw what I did. What because someone is that slow that they hang round in last place some 20 odd seconds of 21st position, and finishes every gp in his rookie season. Simple, if your a rookie and don't have any dnf's due to driver error for pushing so hard, then your not trying hard enough IMO.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Yep i'm sure Marussia would've preferred Max to have a couple of crashes if it meant beating Bianchi sometimes and getting a few top-15 finishes

[Emmcee 0]

Yep i'm sure Marussia would've preferred Max to have a couple of crashes if it meant beating Bianchi sometimes and getting a few top-15 finishes

Yep for sure, how are young going to know the limits of the car and yourself in that car, if you don't push the boundaries, that's what makes a better driver.

[mikathegreat2 2]

It's the million dollar question. I'm gonna side with Vettel. He has more world championships, smashed records & is a generally nicer guy than Alonso. When things don't go Nando's way he acts like a spoilt child thinking that he can get his own way & is very public about it. Vettel on the other hand seems more reserved if things aren't going his way. Also the Vettel "boo bus" is pathetic. If it were the other way round & Alonso was the reigning four time World Champion these brainless haters would want Alonso's head in a box rather than Vettel & be preaching about how much Vettel is in a slower car & would slaughter Alonso in an equal car.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

It's the million dollar question. I'm gonna side with Vettel. He has more world championships, smashed records & is a generally nicer guy than Alonso. When things don't go Nando's way he acts like a spoilt child thinking that he can get his own way & is very public about it. Vettel on the other hand seems more reserved if things aren't going his way. Also the Vettel "boo bus" is pathetic. If it were the other way round & Alonso was the reigning four time World Champion these brainless haters would want Alonso's head in a box rather than Vettel & be preaching about how much Vettel is in a slower car & would slaughter Alonso in an equal car.

The boy surely has his head screwed on right, thats why he's the strongest on the grid.....

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Interesting that NONE of the drivers said vettel except the 2 drivers who are part of the red bull family (Ric & Vergne)

...with the stronger better drivers confused.

[Insider 0]

Take the car away and this is the way the top 10 falls for most everyone I know in F1 - I am talking about the complete package - not one lap wonders here......

Alonso/Vettel/Kimi/Rosberg/Jens/Lewis/Hulk/Grosjean/Massa/Ricciardo

This is without any favouritism from me. It's just what I hear. These are the top ten assets based on speed, tech savvy, experience and team player points. I am sure Bottas and Magnussen will join those ranks and Sutil is classy too.

I am sure 2014 will NOT be the game changer everyone think it might be but we could see a shuffle at the top and I see McLaren moving back up the ladder especially with two of RBRs best aero boys on board.

[dribbler 6]

Rosters and Button in front of Lewis?

Er, nice try.

[Emmcee 0]

I think Rosberg is massively underrated.

[Ikyrotz 0]

I think Rosberg is massively underrated.

I think so too, but at some point soon he really needs to start producing great results too. We need to see that flash of brilliance from him still, that I don't think we've really seen yet, apart from some great efforts during his debut season.

[Emmcee 0]

He has won 2 races this year he is showing his worth already, just needs a more reliable car that can last with the tyres.

[brambilla 0]

He has won 2 races this year he is showing his worth already, just needs a more reliable car that can last with the tyres.

He's shown a good turn of pace in Qualifying, but his performance in races has been sketchy, especially when stuck behind slower cars in the later part of the season, he seemed to be either hanging back to preserve tyres or just incapable of passing. He used to be a good passer back in the Pre-Pirelli era in his crappy Williams, so I'd like to think he's just over-thinking the tyre preservation angle ...

[KoolMonkey 0]

I'm still amazed people are talking about Vettel as a one lap wonder. That's hardly the case. Trulli was a one lap wonder!

How can people not see that Vettel is the WHOLE package here. He's also fast in the race too, not just quali. When he doesn't score a pole position, or even gets beaten off the line, I have at no time felt he would stay there. He's got past who needs to, and most often before DRS is enabled. When he drops back into the pack after a pit stop, he gets the job done and passes who he needs to. This "universal" love affair with Alonso is either bias or plain BS. He is not the best driver in F1. His results don't show it, his temprament doesn't show it, and quite frankly the way Ferrari murdered Massa when it suited them to give Alonso a leg up is astonishing. He tried to blackmail Ron about Spygate. And I think personally new in advance about Crashgate. He's not the best in my view for many reasons. Even if I single out just his driving, it's getting beyond tiring hearing he gets more out of the car, he's the complete package and so on.

A driver's job is to go fast and win. To do the best you can do. Vettel is killing him at the moment, yet he's still labled as one lap wonder. It's mind boggling, but it won't matter in years to come. Vettel is already an all time great at this very moment, he doesn't have to prove anything more. Yet we all know he's still got many wins left in his career. I cannot say the same for Alonso in that I feel he is an all time great. He's a great there is no doubt, but not an all time great.

I put drivers responses to that question down to jealousy. They know Vettel is the best. He's also got the best car... but ONLY in Vettel's hands. If you were to measure the RBR in Webbers hands, you might be hard pressed to say they had the 2nd or 3rd best car on the grid. But in Vettels' hands, that have the clear best car going.

Can't wait for next year. Vettel will win races again. And we'll still be hearing how Alonso is the best, that Vettel is no good and it's all the car rubbish. I'm sure the boo bus will show up in Europe too. Things just don't change, which in a way is good, because that means Vettel will be WDC for 5x in a row.

[brambilla 0]

I'm still amazed people are talking about Vettel as a one lap wonder. That's hardly the case. Trulli was a one lap wonder!

How can people not see that Vettel is the WHOLE package here. He's also fast in the race too, not just quali. When he doesn't ....

I'm guessing you're making the "one-lap wonder with reference to some other site ? Dont see anyone on this thread who's called Vettel a One-Lap Wonder. RE: the whole point of him being better than Alonso - dont think so. Alonso's shown sustained Excellence at Renault, McLaren and Ferrari, especially when he's taken ill-handling cars and put them in places where they had no place being. Vettel, unfortunately for him, drives a car that appears better than the Ferrari. I'm sure the seasoned observers can see he's special, and better than the rest, better than Alonso - that's still up for debate until Alonso gets a car under him in which he appears as comfortable as Vettel does with the RedBull.

Of course, people should take into account that it maybe Vettels feel for the car, feedback etc. which has allowed the design team to get the maximum out of the car, but until he goes to another team and establishes that for a fact, people will say he's a great driver, who happened to be in a car that suited him well.

I think Insider's ranking above is pretty good, other than for the Rosberg\Jens\Lewis Order ... but then again he is talking about the complete package, and not just out and out speed, and Lewis has a tendency to do some brilliant things and some boneheaded things.

[rodders47 2]

well my two cents worth is that Alonso is good, but better then Vettel nah. Weber was similar to Alonso n that he always got to the pointy end at the end of race, but to say Allonso is better then Vettel, Alonso has only two WDC, Vettel 4 !!!!!!!!

[Emmcee 0]

Yes but Vettel has won his 4 in a better car than fernandos Renault where he won his double. Like mentioned above, alonso has shown his consistancy in every car he has ever driven, and it is still open to debate, until, like said above, alonso gets a similar car or Vettel gets a worse car. Alonso victories are often more professional than vettel's. Of course your going to win if you can build a 5 second gap in 2 laps.

[Insider 0]

Rosters and Button in front of Lewis?

Er, nice try.

Thought that may bring you out of your hole These are not my ratings. I would have him in front of Button and behind Rosberg.

[Insider 0]

I'm guessing you're making the "one-lap wonder with reference to some other site ? Dont see anyone on this thread who's called Vettel a One-Lap Wonder. RE: the whole point of him being better than Alonso - dont think so. Alonso's shown sustained Excellence at Renault, McLaren and Ferrari, especially when he's taken ill-handling cars and put them in places where they had no place being. Vettel, unfortunately for him, drives a car that appears better than the Ferrari. I'm sure the seasoned observers can see he's special, and better than the rest, better than Alonso - that's still up for debate until Alonso gets a car under him in which he appears as comfortable as Vettel does with the RedBull.

Of course, people should take into account that it maybe Vettels feel for the car, feedback etc. which has allowed the design team to get the maximum out of the car, but until he goes to another team and establishes that for a fact, people will say he's a great driver, who happened to be in a car that suited him well.

I think Insider's ranking above is pretty good, other than for the Rosberg\Jens\Lewis Order ... but then again he is talking about the complete package, and not just out and out speed, and Lewis has a tendency to do some brilliant things and some boneheaded things.

If you put the top five or six guys in a Vettel spec RB every week, I am sure the honours would be spread out quite evenly though I am quite sure that Lewis would wreck the tyres! Every one of them brings a different dish to the table. Alonso, Vettel, Kimi, Jens and Lewis have 9 WDCs between them. Will Rosberg ever win one? Or, is he destined to become the new Mark Webber. With just 3 GP wins and overall, only ten podiums in seven seasons he is way behind the top five in terms of results. To be honest, I can't see Nando, Kimi or Jens winning another WDC. Their current contracts will probably be their last - at least, in a decent car. The future belongs to Seb, Lewis and Nico. Mclaren have probably got the best of the new talent in the shape of Magnussen and Vandoorne but I am impressed by Daniil Kyvat. He has probably got just the right mix of speed and arrogance to shake the tree with big bananas on.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I'm guessing you're making the "one-lap wonder with reference to some other site ? Dont see anyone on this thread who's called Vettel a One-Lap Wonder. RE: the whole point of him being better than Alonso - dont think so. Alonso's shown sustained Excellence at Renault, McLaren and Ferrari, especially when he's taken ill-handling cars and put them in places where they had no place being. Vettel, unfortunately for him, drives a car that appears better than the Ferrari. I'm sure the seasoned observers can see he's special, and better than the rest, better than Alonso - that's still up for debate until Alonso gets a car under him in which he appears as comfortable as Vettel does with the RedBull.

Of course, people should take into account that it maybe Vettels feel for the car, feedback etc. which has allowed the design team to get the maximum out of the car, but until he goes to another team and establishes that for a fact, people will say he's a great driver, who happened to be in a car that suited him well.

I think Insider's ranking above is pretty good, other than for the Rosberg\Jens\Lewis Order ... but then again he is talking about the complete package, and not just out and out speed, and Lewis has a tendency to do some brilliant things and some boneheaded things.

I'll address one facet you brought up which I've bolded.

Alonso's first stint at Renault was impressive. He didnt' have the fastest car in 2005. That was Kimi's McLaren which was prone to blowups of all kinds. What won him the championship that year was consistency, and not taking risks. He was also very quick to throw a fit when it suited him. Crying over the pit radio about Fisi holding him up at Montreal comes to mind. The reply from pitwall, was past him then! How about in 2006 him claiming that he felt Renault didn't' want him to win the WDC? He's had more team preferential treatment than anyone other than Schumi from what I can see. Though his McLaren stint didn't go as planned.

I've never said ever that Alonso is rubbish, but how many years must this emperor with no clothes on fanfaire continue. He won his two WDC in 2005 and 2006. We're coming up to 9 years since his first. He did great at McLaren in 2007, but then did nothing in 2008 and 2009 in his second stint at Renault. Singapore doesn't count as a win, even if he gets the credit. This was a guy running down the clock, claiming his paycheck every week and to me looking like he was putting in 30% effort. His mind was on when he got to Ferrari and thus just stuck it out at Renault. How is that a great? It's not.

I disagree completely that Vettel needs to go to another to show he's a great. He's already an all time great right now. It's not his fault the other teams haven't made cars to match RBR, and as I've said already is you measured the dominance of the RBR by looking at Webbers results, viewpoints chance drastically.

The facts are right there for everyone to see. 4x WDC in a row. 9x consecutive race wins, 13x wins in a season. Even on these forums and many other places that I've seen comments from others, people are letting go of the vitriol and saying you know what, I hated Vettel, didn't like him, but have to admit that seeing him go up another gear this year, shows he really is one of the greats. And I believe Horner too when he said we haven't seen the best of Vettel yet. He's only 26, he's easily got another 10 years if he wants it in F1.

But week in week out, we'll still see posts from people stating that Alonso is just the best, gets the most out of his car, puts his car where it shouldn't be etc. etc. He's not dragging a Marussia around the track, he's got the 2nd or 3rd best car on the grid. How is he doing better than it appears he's supposed to be doing? His form of late has been pretty bad to be honest, especially his qualifying. Yet the same record plays over and over that he's second to none. In my view he is second to Vettel. Stats never tell the full picture. In fact sometimes stats can be wrong, but Vettel's stats are not down to pure luck.

Insider, I tend to agree with you on Jenson not winning another WDC. I hate to say it but Kimi prob won't win another one either. I also cannot see Lewis ever winning another one. He does not work hard enough to me, and seeing this article a few days back only confirmed what alot of us have been saying that his work ethic, his full on commitment has been missing. He's been so busy playing the part of an "F1 Racer" than actually just being one. Article is here: http://www.planetf1....o-Go-Old-School

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I dont think the number of titles is the best argument to use, if the rules hadnt changed for '09, and stayed the same for another 5 years, Felipe Massa might have ended up a triple-world champion.

Is Jacques Villeneuve better than Stirling Moss cos he has a world title & Moss doesn't?

Don't get me wrong I've finally acknowledged in the last year or 2 that Vettel really is special. But I don't think the argument "he's better cos he has 4 titles to Alonso's 2" has much weight. Alonso hasn't been driving a Newey-designed RBR for the last 5 years.

Next year Alonso has a formidable team-mate, this will give a better indication of how great (or not?) he really is.

And if RBR get it wrong and Vettel is scrapping just to get on the podium, perhaps he'll keep crashing and show us all that he's not such a legend after all? We'll see. I can't wait! But number of titles and wins doesnt do it for me.