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Apples127

Sounds About Engine Noise

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I'll tell you what, it's alot easier to sleep on the couch now with the F1 on replay on the tele. No screaming banshees to wake me out of my slumber. I don't normally fall asleep watching a race, unless it is utterly boring, or I'm short of sleep due to work and so on.

Most likely because of Kimi getting punted by Mag Jr, but I felt this race until the Massa/Bottas almost drama to be a real bore.

And no, I'm still not liking the sound. I felt so disconnected watching the race especially the helicopter footage. All silent and wow, it just makes them seem slower even. Thumbs down.

I agree with you, feels & sounds like they've had their souls ripped out of them

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I found this interesting:

The FIA claims it is an 11 dB difference at max volume.

But that's just what the FIA claims, and that's just the max, not at all points.

That'd still be mighty loud.

The numbers I remember: a single NASCAR vehicle is around 130 dB max. A single IndyCar vehicle is around 125 dB max. Formula E will be 80 dB max for one car.

So, you may not like how they sound. That's fair.

But too quiet? Not so sure on that.

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There is a conspiracy theory doing the rounds that given that Bernie is anti the engine change, he has allegedly ordered the microphones on the circuit to be positioned to negatively affect the sound of the engines in TV (may be supported by comments last GP where Todt amongst others said the engines appeared a lot louder/different in real life.

Only a theory....

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There is a conspiracy theory doing the rounds that given that Bernie is anti the engine change, he has allegedly ordered the microphones on the circuit to be positioned to negatively affect the sound of the engines in TV (may be supported by comments last GP where Todt amongst others said the engines appeared a lot louder/different in real life.

Only a theory....

Funny, I heard the opposite. Apparently, a group of commies that only want to bring us down with ecology and such will position themselves close to each microphone (a russian satellite was diverted towards Bahrein so as to pinpoint each one), once in position, these frigging long-haired, pot-smoking, baby-seal-defending reds will proceed to make engine noises with their mouths.

They already banned tobacco sponsorship (F1 is a FARCE without tobacco sponsorship, a FARCE I TELL YA! What would James Hunt say? Huh? What would he?). Now they are going for the sound. Friggin' commies. Make no mistake, these guys are highy trained professionals and they are against everyhthing we care for. I got some footage of their secret training somewhere in Libya, or some other place we despise because "it smells funny":

THEY ARE COMING!!! THEY ARE COMING FOR US!!

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The decibel

I found this interesting:

The FIA claims it is an 11 dB difference at max volume.

But that's just what the FIA claims, and that's just the max, not at all points.

That'd still be mighty loud.

The numbers I remember: a single NASCAR vehicle is around 130 dB max. A single IndyCar vehicle is around 125 dB max. Formula E will be 80 dB max for one car.

So, you may not like how they sound. That's fair.

But too quiet? Not so sure on that.

I don't think the decibel readings reflect actual true sound as there is a huge difference in volume between last years engines and this years. Whilst track side this year at the Melbourne race I was standing on the exit of turn one & like Ron Walker has verified you can't hear the cars at the end of the straight as they approach turn one - it's just silent as if an electric car was approaching. It was only as they started to wind up through turn one you then heard them and they proceeded to pass by with a flat drony sound that certainly was nothing like the volume of last years, hence why nobody had ear plugs in this year.

The pitch, the revs & the acoustics of the exhaust note must all play a factor in the actual sound as the old cars you could hear screaming down Melbourne's straight long before you could see them approach turn one. How can two extreme's in sound as I've just demonstrated be only 11DB difference in volume?

Edited by Apples127

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judging from the thread I assume a lot of folk won't be switching on the TV when there is a race shown, pity, you will be missing some decent racing lol

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I love the new sound. I love the turbo noises. I love the fact that you can hear many many more of the pops and hisses and grumbles of the engine than before because they are not drowned out by the higher RPM.

I also loved the v8's but the v8's were nothing like the v10's. Every engine has its own sound and feel. Maybe it is because I am a car guy and not just a driver fan that I like the sound. I love the engineering challenge of it. If anything this change in the rules has made f1 much more interesting for me.

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How can two extreme's in sound as I've just demonstrated be only 11DB difference in volume?

Decibels measure the sound pressure level, irrespective of frequency.

Our ears have a specific hearing curve and are more sensitive to some frequencies than others. You would not necessarily perceive a sound at 70db @ 19KHz sounding "as loud" as one at 7KHz.

Plus the decibel scale is logarithmic, so a 3db increase represents a doubling in power and 10db represents an increase of 10 times.

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judging from the thread I assume a lot of folk won't be switching on the TV when there is a race shown, pity, you will be missing some decent racing lol

Well that poll run by Ferrari with 83% of 50,000 people being unhappy with the new rules I think speaks in volumes and if this continues as F1 makes its way around the world continuing to disappoint people then F1 is in real trouble. The FIA will have to act otherwise an attitude of "this is the new formula so get used to it" may very well bite them on the bum!

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Decibels measure the sound pressure level, irrespective of frequency.

Our ears have a specific hearing curve and are more sensitive to some frequencies than others. You would not necessarily perceive a sound at 70db @ 19KHz sounding "as loud" as one at 7KHz.

Plus the decibel scale is logarithmic, so a 3db increase represents a doubling in power and 10db represents an increase of 10 times.

Thanks for that

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Decibels measure the sound pressure level, irrespective of frequency.

Our ears have a specific hearing curve and are more sensitive to some frequencies than others. You would not necessarily perceive a sound at 70db @ 19KHz sounding "as loud" as one at 7KHz.

Plus the decibel scale is logarithmic, so a 3db increase represents a doubling in power and 10db represents an increase of 10 times.

Is that the power needed to provide 10db more sound pressure level, as it were?

According to my research, well when I say research I mean I looked on google, as a 10db increase being 10 times more power seemed high, but that is indeed correct for power. However, in terms of sound pressure level a 20db increase represents a ratio of 10 to 1 in sound pressure. And then to be totally confusing, in terms of sound level perception for us humans, a 20db increase sounds about 4 times louder, so a 10db increase sounds about twice as loud.

So basically, what google says is that the old engines were twice as loud as the new ones :lol:

So the upshot of this is if you used to wear earplugs when going to watch an F1 race live and you don't now, the new engines should sound louder :whistling:

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Or...you could wear one earplug only and they will sound just the same!

:eusa_think:

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Well that poll run by Ferrari with 83% of 50,000 people being unhappy with the new rules I think speaks in volumes and if this continues as F1 makes its way around the world continuing to disappoint people then F1 is in real trouble. The FIA will have to act otherwise an attitude of "this is the new formula so get used to it" may very well bite them on the bum!

You have to ask yourself if Ferrari would have run this poll if they had won the first 2 races of the season, especially if they had got a 1-2 finish in the last race?

I also suspect if Mercedes had run this poll, then the it might have been 83% in favour of the new rules.

Fans are fickle. And I still maintain that 93.4% of statistics are made up on the spot :lol:

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Or...you could wear one earplug only and they will sound just the same!

eusa_think.gif

Only if you tilt your head at a 57.6% angle away from the point of source of the sound.

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You have to ask yourself if Ferrari would have run this poll if they had won the first 2 races of the season, especially if they had got a 1-2 finish in the last race?

I also suspect if Mercedes had run this poll, then the it might have been 83% in favour of the new rules.

Fans are fickle. And I still maintain that 93.4% of statistics are made up on the spot :lol:

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You have to ask yourself if Ferrari would have run this poll if they had won the first 2 races of the season, especially if they had got a 1-2 finish in the last race?

I also suspect if Mercedes had run this poll, then the it might have been 83% in favour of the new rules.

Fans are fickle. And I still maintain that 93.4% of statistics are made up on the spot :lol:

Oh and the racing is so much better this year - bulls##t! Ill re-table a quote I posted at the beginning of the season "everyone will soon get sick of the 2 Mercedes disappearing into the distance as Senna & Prost did in 1988 & the rest fight over the scraps". Not only have this years rules ripped the soul out of F1 by removing the noise with green loving technology but they tried to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place.

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I remember people were not happy when we had a ton of different winners to open 2012 (and even 2013, to a degree). It was apparently a fluke due to Pirelli.

Now, some of the same (not all, mind you, and not necessarily people on the forum) people hate this season because the same team has won all two races.

For my part, I enjoyed 2012-13, and I'm enjoying this. The prospect of Mercedes building a huge lead early, only for Red Bull to develop its way into the fight by the end of the year is very exciting. Think 2006, but without the FIA banning the mass damper to make it closer. 2009, to a degree, too, though Red Bull didn't get super close. Either way, I think this season has a lot left to offer. It's still wide open, and so is this era as a whole, with Honda joining next year. These cars have plenty more to give us if we'd only let them...

Well that poll run by Ferrari with 83% of 50,000 people being unhappy with the new rules I think speaks in volumes and if this continues as F1 makes its way around the world continuing to disappoint people then F1 is in real trouble. The FIA will have to act otherwise an attitude of "this is the new formula so get used to it" may very well bite them on the bum!

Want to play with numbers? English-language F1 TV viewership is up 102% in the United States.

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/102413-f1-nbc-sports-reports-big-ratings-gains-for-opening-two-races

See, the thing with numbers is, just because you have them does not mean your opinion is now correct. You have a number that "proves" this is "bad" for the sport. I have a number that "proves" this is 'good" for the sport. The difference? Who was sampled, and how.

I would bet neither your Ferrari poll or my U. S. TV ratings are true for the whole of the world's F1 fans, either. We just don't have an accurate measure of that yet.

But before the world ends, at least know that a country with a deep motor racing tradition (and as much of a love for engine noise as any) is doubly interested in the English broadcast of F1 in 2014 than they were at this point in 2013. That's a good sign for a Formula One that's about to add a U. S.-based Haas Racing Development and is seeking to add a race in Southern California. :)

I love the new sound. I love the turbo noises. I love the fact that you can hear many many more of the pops and hisses and grumbles of the engine than before because they are not drowned out by the higher RPM.

I also loved the v8's but the v8's were nothing like the v10's. Every engine has its own sound and feel. Maybe it is because I am a car guy and not just a driver fan that I like the sound. I love the engineering challenge of it. If anything this change in the rules has made f1 much more interesting for me.

Great post. I think frequent rules changes are very important to keep things fresh and exciting. This is the only series in which the teams design a new car every year. Changing the rules on them takes full advantage of that fact. I love it.

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.....However, in terms of sound pressure level a 20db increase represents a ratio of 10 to 1 in sound pressure. And then to be totally confusing, in terms of sound level perception for us humans....

Well, actually using Newton's third law of thermogravyonics, 10db = three times the square root of the 1 to the power of custard.

And on this basis, I estimate that the new engines' sound travels at 1.533 recurring kiloFurlongs per Fortnight, which means they sound about the same....

:D

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You can argue numbers & dismiss poll percentages all you like but im yet to see a poll that says 83% of 50,000 people like the new rules. Until then or at least until another poll has such a conclusive result in favour of the new formula we can only conclude that the world at large is currently not in favour.

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Ah, but hang on a minute... the poll was on Ferrari's website and is hardly an accurate measure (especially given that it will be Ferrari fans and they are not doing so well, so are less likely to be happy) and it depends how the questions are asked.

So as a measure of satisfaction, I would say it is "interesting" but not necessarily significant.

A better measure would be TV viewing figures....

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....and if looking at figures the number of TV viewers in 2013 dropped by 50 million to 450 million - that is 10%. (from Formula One's Global Media Report)

So sounds like leaving the series as it was would not have been an option because fans were unhappy too.

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Oh and the racing is so much better this year - bulls##t! Ill re-table a quote I posted at the beginning of the season "everyone will soon get sick of the 2 Mercedes disappearing into the distance as Senna & Prost did in 1988 & the rest fight over the scraps". Not only have this years rules ripped the soul out of F1 by removing the noise with green loving technology but they tried to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place.

Are you seriously suggesting that a poll run by Ferrari, who are struggling it has to be said, is indicative of the whole F1 fan base? You can't see how this poll could be a tad biased in any way? Or are you seriously arguing that if Ferrari had won the first 2 (now 3) races by a good margin that the poll would still say 83% don't like the new rules?

You also raise a good point about Prost and Senna. Even when the FIA didn't stick it's nose in, you had McLaren winning 15 of the 16 races, same with Williams when they were dominant too. So it seems to me that sometimes a team just comes up with a really good design, or trick that gives them the advantage.

And yes, if we want to make rash judgements on how good, or bad the racing has been this year on the strength of only 2 or 3 races, then you would have to conclude that so far the racing has been better, if only for the Bahrain race by itself.

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Are you seriously suggesting that a poll run by Ferrari, who are struggling it has to be said, is indicative of the whole F1 fan base? You can't see how this poll could be a tad biased in any way? Or are you seriously arguing that if Ferrari had won the first 2 (now 3) races by a good margin that the poll would still say 83% don't like the new rules?

You also raise a good point about Prost and Senna. Even when the FIA didn't stick it's nose in, you had McLaren winning 15 of the 16 races, same with Williams when they were dominant too. So it seems to me that sometimes a team just comes up with a really good design, or trick that gives them the advantage.

And yes, if we want to make rash judgements on how good, or bad the racing has been this year on the strength of only 2 or 3 races, then you would have to conclude that so far the racing has been better, if only for the Bahrain race by itself.

I'm suggesting I'm yet to read a poll with a majority of people saying they like the new formula, maybe there has been one but I've not seen it through GPToday.

The Bahrain race was entertaining, owing mainly to the safety car that put paid to Hamilton's gap over Rosberg & the fact the laps behind the safety car ended concern over running out of fuel. Aided also by the fact that Mercedes allowed their drivers to actually race each other & hence with the wick turned up we saw a true indication of their pace over the rest of the field - something to the tune of 2 seconds per lap faster? If the safety car not been deployed it would've been a bit more of a procession of a race. I just hope Mercedes continue to allow their drivers to fight but if that is the case it's only a matter of time before there'll be contact followed by tears & Multi 21 will be deployed. Look what happened to Prost & Senna when they went head to head - great drama for the spectators though

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