Will This Year Make Or Break Vettel?

[dribbler 6]

Unfortunately, I believe Renault will fix its reliability woes before season start. Underneath it will be a super quick Red Bull.

You're all waaaaay to quick to rule Seb out.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Yeah but Schumi built that Ferrari team, he knew he needed to get in order to turn Ferrari around. Drivers dispise Schumi simply because his will to win is so strong, others can't comprehend the extent he would go to and that's whats separates good drivers from greats. Vettel is unbeleivable, but yet has to really "fight" for victories, every win basically has been down to driving away at the start of each race. When he does have to fight to get to the front, he hits webber,button or even makes a silly mistake, Canada 2011 pushing when it wasn't needed.

I can't believe I'm still replying to this. Ok this will be the last time I speak on this since it's cirlces going round and round.

The Vettel you describe is the old Vettel. The Vettel we saw last year was patient, calculating, and able to win from not the front row. Thus him only being able to win from the front is incorrect. You can't compare 2011 to 2013. I don't recall Vettel making any mistakes to be honest. As for drivers despising Schumi for him being ruthless and a strong will to win, you say that as a compliment. But when Vettel showed that same will to win in Malaysia, he's booed for most of the year, and slammed repeatedly for it. Yet in that circumstance, he had a genuine grievance with Webber and inferred it was payback for Brazil 2012.

Vettel was hot property when he came into F1. BMW gave him a stint, and wanted to sign him, but RBR wasn't having any of it. So he got the Torro Rosso seat. He dominated a weekend and won a race. He's the only driver to get promoted to RBR from TR after one full season.

I don't disagree that him having good results in a bad car will stop the criticisms, my point is that it's irrelevant. It's not going to shut anyone up. If you can't see he's a great already, your point of view will not change.

Ces't la vie. I hope to stick to my word to not waste a single word on this topic again. It's endless. It will never be solved, resolved, answered to Vettel's critics likes. They will always find something else to have a go at him about.

Jem, my reference to Vettel being in a ski accident and not Schumi, was to show that let's say that happened, suddenly everyone's opinion would change of him. And for an off track activity. Thus if people hate him and don't like him, that clouds their view of how good a driver he is. I know this happens for a fact because for since I first saw him, I hated Schumi. It only grew after the Hill and JV incidents. It wasn't until he retired, and then came back that I truly wished him the best and hoped he did well.

[Emmcee 0]

Why does everyone say Malaysia was payback for brazil 2012, well whats payback for 2010? When Webber was leading for majority of the season, and don't say seb was driving better because he simply wasn't, it was Redbull favouring ther beloved child over Webber, now if Vettel didn't pull it of, Redbull would have looked like absolute idiots. But at the end if the day monkey, if you don't agree, simple dont reply if you don't like it. I specifically stated it was my opinion. Why say if I don't class him as a legend now I never will, what a load of crock, I openly admitted I would, and I also said it would proove me wrong and ill admit that.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I'm not not replying because I don't agree. I'm not replying because we've had this discussion close to a dozen times and people still consider Vettel just a punk. It's pointless. His achievements cannot be mocked or deleted from history.

I'm happy to discuss other matters, but I'm done bashing my head against a brick wall on this one, it's utterly pointless. And as I've come to realize it's more about liking a driver, than actually how good he is.

[Emmcee 0]

I'm not not replying because I don't agree. I'm not replying because we've had this discussion close to a dozen times and people still consider Vettel just a punk. It's pointless. His achievements cannot be mocked or deleted from history.

I'm happy to discuss other matters, but I'm done bashing my head against a brick wall on this one, it's utterly pointless. And as I've come to realize it's more about liking a driver, than actually how good he is.

And i have said over a dozen times how good he is, but that's in this particular car/chassis, if he is there or there abouts this year, it will certainly shut me up, that's if the Redbull is proven to be not as quick as the others it's as simple as that, iam sure this debate would be the same for Schumi if he won all his 7 titles while at Ferrari, but he didnt, he prooved he could win in a Benetton and brought them up to be able to fight for wins on a consistant basis, Vettel won in monza 08, yeah he was quick that weekend, but do you honestly think the result would be the same if it had not rained? I don't think so, otherwise, why wasn't he challenging for wins at spa/Fuji and other circuits with high top end speed. We know the toro rosso wasn't super quick, let alone in a straight line, so go figure. I totally accept your opinion monkey don't get me wrong, but people fail to realise that I DO know how good he is, they seem to skip that part and only dwell on the negative things I say about him. All iam saying, is it will proove that he is quick in any car then, not just the dominant Redbull's. he was quick on debut in 07 in the BMW sauber, but that car was a front running car aswell that year and not to mention won a race the following season so it was far from a slack car. Vettel in some areas is as good as Senna (dont forget i said this) so he should have no dramas if the rb isnt up to scratch, it will just confirm what everyone else has stated. Gonna have to agree to disagree. Sorry mate if I sound a bit arrogant, I don't mean to be.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I think there's just a bit of misunderstanding going on, me and webric are not trying to take anything away from what Seb has already achieved, and we both believe that Seb probably would do great things in a bad car.

All we're really saying is all the other greats produced those memorable 'legend' drives in bad cars at some point during their careers, Seb hasnt really had a chance to do that yet hence why so many people don't yet accept him being classed as equal to the 'greats' of F1 history.

[F1 FANatic 1]

Well, from the looks of testing so far, Vettel just finishing a race this season might just turn into his greatest driver ever.

It look like the Renault engine is not just off but unusable.

[Emmcee 0]

It's hard to comprehend as they were a pretty good engine in the last turbo era

[F1 FANatic 1]

It is unimaginable.

If the season started today the Renault powered cars wouldn't even matter to any part of the championship. F1 would be 16 cars instead of 22 really.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Renault - great engines, lousy electrics....

My little "5" ran sweetly for years until the electrics gave up

[Emmcee 0]

What do you think this boils down to? Lack of on track testing? Then again it's the same for everyone.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Latest Mark Webber comments, talking about Ricciardo (and repeating himself about who's the best driver in f1):

He’ll go well. I think he’ll give Seb a real hard time in qualifying – it’ll be 50:50 in the first year, I reckon,” “I took a few off Seb last year – and the blown floor is gone now,”

“I think Daniel will be fine, and it certainly won’t hurt him that he’s come through the Red Bull system. I just hope he gets better starts than I did.”

“I always thought Fernando was the best, and I still do – on Sundays. On one lap, though, I think Seb’s got him covered – and I’m talking in terms of preparation, not just pace,”

“Fernando’s had a lot of poles in his time, but probably age has come into it – you lose a little bit. In the race, though, he’s got more strings to his bow than anyone else, and he’s relentless. Seb’s strengths, as we know, are escaping at the start, and running in clean air – when you get these things in clean air now, it’s a whole other story, in terms of tyres and so on. He’s like a computer, isn’t he? His only weakness was always fast corners.”