Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2014 Doesn't look good, Vettel manages only 14 laps before issues struck the rb10 again. So are Redbull still holding cards close to chest like some suggested after Jerez? I doubt it. Redbull are in serious trouble IMO, Mclaren seem to be early favourites with another fast session, force India look darn quick also, but Redbull reign looks like has come to an end. In a recent interview, Mark Webber says these new cars would suit seb even more as his strong point is in slow corners and apparently these new cars, being so "torqky" there quite difficult to drive in slow corners so seb should benefit. Redbull seem to have been caught on the back foot and are in serious trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2014 As much as I hate seeing RBR in the trouble they are in, they have some of the smartest tech minds around. If this all comes down to simply a cooling solution, they will be fine. Even if they bomb the first leg of Asian races, and get it together come Barca, they still are in with a chance. As good as the others look, this is testing. We've seen it so many times before with one team looking great, others not looking so good, and come the actual start of the season and the first few races, suddenly the teams looking not so good are winning, and the "teams to beat" are coming in 8th and 13th. RBR are not dead yet by any means, and have proven over the last few years, they don't need the best or fastest car at the start of the year, only the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2014 That is true, but in saying that, this is the worst start ever for them, even worse than 2007 I Beleive, so you can't say there not worried. I agree with you though monkey, they will eventually sort it, but if its a random and wild championship like 2009 it might be to late to catch Grosjean after 5 or 6 straight wins. That was an example btw, I have a hunch though, it will be a topsy turvy championship with plenty of suprises. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 Simply Poetic Justice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 Vettel put in 59 laps on testing day 2. That's more than all the previous days combined. I'm not RBR will be winning a races before Europe, but they won't be coming last either. I still annoyed this is all happening. People will just use the RBR cooling woes to say, see I told you so, Vettel is crap without a good car. I hope RBR get it sorted properly, and then we can see how the year will play out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah but that's the thing monkey. How long has seb driven a Redbull car for? Years, now when Schumi first joined Ferrari, he won three races in a car that shouldn't have been able to, I know different circumstances, but most of these greats we all admire, excelled in these tricky situations, iam not writing of Vettel yet, but wether the rb10 is quick of the bat or not, he has to be at the front. Otherwise how many bad season would have to go by before people start saying "ok, maybe it was the car" iam not saying it will happen, as I Beleive he will be at the pointy end no matter what, but people have to start holding that into account, not yet though, it's way to early, but by the 4th race, we will have a rough idea how things will turn out. If seb doesn't win the title this year, it will be won by someone who wouldn't have been champion if the regs wernt changed, aka Jenson Button style 2009, sorry JEM but do people here think he would have won that title hadnt the brawn been so dominate? I don't think he would have. Just an opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah but that's the thing monkey. How long has seb driven a Redbull car for? Years, now when Schumi first joined Ferrari, he won three races in a car that shouldn't have been able to, I know different circumstances, but most of these greats we all admire, excelled in these tricky situations, iam not writing of Vettel yet, but wether the rb10 is quick of the bat or not, he has to be at the front. He wasn't 21 years old Webric..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 He wasn't 21 years old Webric..... Whats that got to do with it? I Beleive he is 26 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 It's a valid point though. Schumi had 5 years more experience in F1 and thus if he won in a car that wasn't supposed to win, he still had the knowledge and training to win. But you can't ever compare eras. Especially since in those days, they, especially Ferrari, would practice, test and practice some more, round the clock all year long. The current issues with RBR have NOTHING to do with Vettel. It doesn't matter whose in the car, if it's overheating and catching fire and not able to do more than 4 laps, skill, experience, it all counts for zero. It's only when the car is reliable and within the neighbourhood of performance as the other top of the grid ones, that you can even contemplate doing a comparison, driver skills etc. It's why no one ever really compares the back marker drivers, since we have no way of knowing how good a PIC is compared with Alonso, Kimi etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 What you talking about? Vettel has been around since 2006 and winning earlier and more consistanly earlier to, iam not sure what you mean by this? I know these issues arnt Vettel problems, so iam sure he will still extract the maximum out of the car and more so, but will that still be enough to even win? Only time will tell, that's what I meant by comparing to Schumi and the 96 Ferrari, the amount of DNF'S he had that year was atrocious and yet still won 3 races, Vettel's era had way more reliable cars, that's why I see this season, very much like Schumi and Ferrari in 96, can he win in anything but a Benetton? The reliability issues will reappear, so it seems to me like a reasonable comparison. But you are right Monkey in the sense it's impossible to compare drivers in different eras, there's simply to much difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2014 I wonder why Vettel fans questions Vettel's worth all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 I wonder why Vettel fans questions Vettel's worth all the time. Me? A Vettel fan? Ha! Far from it, I can't stand the spoilt little brat, after he consistantly thumped my man Webber, as a person, he is a complete a-hole but as a race driver, he is phenomenal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Me? A Vettel fan? Ha! Far from it, I can't stand the spoilt little brat, after he consistantly thumped my man Webber, as a person, he is a complete a-hole but as a race driver, he is phenomenal. Nice to meet you, WebRic. Phenomenal? Is he that good? Well, I hope I recover the interest in F1 this season and see who is the Phenomenon of the grid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Nice to meet you, WebRic. Phenomenal? Is he that good? Well, I hope I recover the interest in F1 this season and see who is the Phenomenon of the grid. Nice to meet you to mate. But it seems like it will be Mercedes,Mclaren,Ferrari,force India and Williams and in that order to, Redbull havnt put in consistant enough laps to make an assumption on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Ricciardo can drive a bad car quickly. He has that ability. Vettel is like Button but with a better car. It needs to be on rails. Looking over the pre-season test data, it is clear that RBR have designed the wrong car for this configuration. Friends at Renault tell me the engine runs hot but Viry turbos always did. The first working turbo engine in F1 was a Renault-Gordini 1.5L V6. That was in 1977 but it was massively unreliable that year, mostly with failed turbos. However, it all came good and when I joined the mighty V10 had arrived - what an engine! I am sure that most of the current problems are with 21st century technology - energy harvesting to be precise. What a load of bollocks! What the hell has it to do with racing? At the Viry factory, those kind of changes were as welcome as letting an Englishman cook your lunch! They'll work it out but I can't help thinking, Newey has his plate full too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 I still annoyed this is all happening. People will just use the RBR cooling woes to say, see I told you so, Vettel is crap without a good car. I hope RBR get it sorted properly, and then we can see how the year will play out. I know I sound like a broken record but I think the opposite will happen - Vettel will show us all what he can do with a terrible package. I'll only say 'Vettel only ever won cos of his car' if Ricciardo consistently beats him which lets face it, he won't. Yeah but that's the thing monkey. How long has seb driven a Redbull car for? Years, now when Schumi first joined Ferrari, he won three races in a car that shouldn't have been able to, I know different circumstances, but most of these greats we all admire, excelled in these tricky situations, iam not writing of Vettel yet, but wether the rb10 is quick of the bat or not, he has to be at the front. Otherwise how many bad season would have to go by before people start saying "ok, maybe it was the car" iam not saying it will happen, as I Beleive he will be at the pointy end no matter what, but people have to start holding that into account, not yet though, it's way to early, but by the 4th race, we will have a rough idea how things will turn out. If seb doesn't win the title this year, it will be won by someone who wouldn't have been champion if the regs wernt changed, aka Jenson Button style 2009, sorry JEM but do people here think he would have won that title hadnt the brawn been so dominate? I don't think he would have. Just an opinion. I feel like I'm the only one who understands you buddy lol. As for 2009 yeah I'm always 100% honest and try not to be biased; I'm very aware Brawn had a massive performance gap to everyone else for the first half of 2009. But, JB made the most of it with some style (in the first half at least), dominating everything whilst his team-mate won nothing. It certainly was an odd year but I'll never think of it as a fluke (I know that's not what you're saying), there have been many seasons when the champ has had a car much better than everyone else's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 I know I sound like a broken record but I think the opposite will happen - Vettel will show us all what he can do with a terrible package. I'll only say 'Vettel only ever won cos of his car' if Ricciardo consistently beats him which lets face it, he won't. I feel like I'm the only one who understands you buddy lol. As for 2009 yeah I'm always 100% honest and try not to be biased; I'm very aware Brawn had a massive performance gap to everyone else for the first half of 2009. But, JB made the most of it with some style (in the first half at least), dominating everything whilst his team-mate won nothing. It certainly was an odd year but I'll never think of it as a fluke (I know that's not what you're saying), there have been many seasons when the champ has had a car much better than everyone else's. He did drive brilliantly, Rubens isn't slow either, but I was fearing button was playing safe just a tad to much, he was lucky IMO he was able to fight to the position he needed in brazil as he was struggling with a much improoved teammate at the time as Rubens found some bloody quick form. At the end of the day, he still drove the car didnt he? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 Nice to meet you, WebRic. Phenomenal? Is he that good? Well, I hope I recover the interest in F1 this season and see who is the Phenomenon of the grid. ah, nice to see you back Alehop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 Ricciardo can drive a bad car quickly. He has that ability. Vettel is like Button but with a better car. It needs to be on rails. Looking over the pre-season test data, it is clear that RBR have designed the wrong car for this configuration. Friends at Renault tell me the engine runs hot but Viry turbos always did. The first working turbo engine in F1 was a Renault-Gordini 1.5L V6. That was in 1977 but it was massively unreliable that year, mostly with failed turbos. However, it all came good and when I joined the mighty V10 had arrived - what an engine! I am sure that most of the current problems are with 21st century technology - energy harvesting to be precise. What a load of bollocks! What the hell has it to do with racing? At the Viry factory, those kind of changes were as welcome as letting an Englishman cook your lunch! They'll work it out but I can't help thinking, Newey has his plate full too. Apparently Renault has fixed the hardware problems and is only left to sort out the software now.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 Apparently Renault has fixed the hardware problems and is only left to sort out the software now.... And apparently testing illegally too. http://www.gptoday.com/details/view/479154/Red_Bull_denies_secret_test_for_troubled_RB_10_in_Spain/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodders47 2 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 what's the chance they are sandbagging ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 what's the chance they are sandbagging ??? I don't think so. Being slow is one thing - not running at all, virtually is another Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 what's the chance they are sandbagging ??? No way, sebs face says it all, unless he has another career after this in acting or maybe a pro soccer player, then if say sandbagging but I don't think so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 He did drive brilliantly, Rubens isn't slow either, but I was fearing button was playing safe just a tad to much, he was lucky IMO he was able to fight to the position he needed in brazil as he was struggling with a much improoved teammate at the time as Rubens found some bloody quick form. At the end of the day, he still drove the car didnt he? You're right JB did play the 'safe' game for much of the 2nd half, which as a fan of his was quite annoying to watch. In Brazil he finally decided to just go for it, and drove one of the best races of his life after a poor qualifying. Title won with a race to spare! I don't think so. Being slow is one thing - not running at all, virtually is another Indeed. RBR's pace isn't really much of a topic, everyone's concern is whether the package can even do a full race distance at Melbourne Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 Well if other Renault cars out perform Redbull it will cause some chatter. Which IMO, I think is more than just the engine, they were caught on the back foot, everyone else put in the extra yards to make sure Redbull are beaten this year, I think Redbull played a bit safe and thinking Newey would save the day again. I think it's changing of the guard, time to see some Vettel tantrums. If Redbull fail this year, Seb will most certainly leave, doesn't he have a clause in his contract stating that whatever contract he has, it's invalid if the car doesn't perform? Meaning he can just up and leave. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
