Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Jem of the Shire

Big Ron: "there Are Similarities Between Ayrton And Jenson"

38 posts in this topic


The qualities Ron refers too are of Jenson as a man, basically and a team member. You had to see Ayrton race to really see how ultra rapid he was. On raw pace alone, only Mansell could live with him and AS would be the first to admit that. Prost had guile on his team and he was super-intelligent but he didn't enter the same zones as Senna and Nige. If you have ever driven a car so fast that it takes on a mind of it's own and, you know if you make one flick wrong you will never see this world again; then you comprehend where Senna lived. Frank Williams famously replied to the press when asked when Mansell would win the WDC: 'When we can build him a car he can't break!'. Senna broke plenty but Jenson tends to be more careful with them. JB has a very sharp mind too. The fact that he is extremely quick and can beat anyone on his day is a massive bonus for McLaren.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Senna was on the limit all the time, I remember him sliding his Mclaren round Monaco one handed while changing gears, he simply was just in a league of his own and IMO Nigel couldn't even match him, I've never seen anyone who had the sheer raw pace he possessed, Schumi is almost there but no quite.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jenson is nowhere near Senna or Mansell's league on the race track. He spends more time not on it, than on it. Thus "on his day" could also apply to Massa, Maldonado, Salo, Irvine, DC, Ralfie... you get my drift. I have not seen JB do well when he doesn't like his car, and last season regardless of how bad the McLaren was, he did nothing to sway me away from thinking he's only good for those short moments the planets align.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jenson is nowhere near Senna or Mansell's league on the race track. He spends more time not on it, than on it. Thus "on his day" could also apply to Massa, Maldonado, Salo, Irvine, DC, Ralfie... you get my drift. I have not seen JB do well when he doesn't like his car, and last season regardless of how bad the McLaren was, he did nothing to sway me away from thinking he's only good for those short moments the planets align.

Sadly I agree as must as Jem won't like it, he is exactly like Mark Webber just with more luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jenson is the 2009 WDC. Yes, he needs a near-perfect car to win but then again so did Prost. Even if he won the WDC again in a three-wheeler, he'd still have his knockers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but we didnt have the rule changes and he had the best car, if the regs didnt change, he wouldn't have won a single race that season IMO based on Hondas previous campaigns, be intresting to see where he is this season, button wins on days others suffer from severe tyre deg, he is the master if smooth control, you can't deny that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Insider, I think Prost would smoke Jenson every day of the week, regardless of if they have a car they like on the day. JB is never and I think will never be spoken in the same sentence as Prost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Insider, I think Prost would smoke Jenson every day of the week, regardless of if they have a car they like on the day. JB is never and I think will never be spoken in the same sentence as Prost.

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Insider, I think Prost would smoke Jenson every day of the week, regardless of if they have a car they like on the day. JB is never and I think will never be spoken in the same sentence as Prost.

Apart from his debut year at Macca in 1980, Alain had consistently good cars. He was a master of set up and a superb strategist. It was so much harder to win back then too. There were no gimmicks and they were still hitting 200mph with a real clutch and gear shift to negotiate. You cannot make comparisons across eras. Senna was unbelievably quick but made mistakes like everybody else. All those guys were racing not programming. By the way, Prost doesn't smoke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but we didnt have the rule changes and he had the best car, if the regs didnt change, he wouldn't have won a single race that season IMO based on Hondas previous campaigns, be intresting to see where he is this season, button wins on days others suffer from severe tyre deg, he is the master if smooth control, you can't deny that.

I don't think his driving style suits the cars he's had in the last two years or this year's car right now. His tyre deg has been high in this phase of his career as F1 now resorts to magic devices and theatrical props like Pirelli tyres to fatten Bernie's slush [sorry, I mean trust] fund. Right now he has a car with a nervous rear and he is not apt at sliding around corners. He needs downforce and I believe, he will get it - eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from his debut year at Macca in 1980, Alain had consistently good cars. He was a master of set up and a superb strategist. It was so much harder to win back then too. There were no gimmicks and they were still hitting 200mph with a real clutch and gear shift to negotiate. You cannot make comparisons across eras. Senna was unbelievably quick but made mistakes like everybody else. All those guys were racing not programming. By the way, Prost doesn't smoke.

I Beleive prosts Renault and Ferrari were crap, yet he still got solid results. As for Senna, he is the fastest driver I've ever seen in terms if raw pace, incredible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:) Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jeremy Clarkson summed up Ayrton Senna when they ran an article on him by stating that Senna was spectacular EVERYTIME he got in the car

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jeremy Clarkson summed up Ayrton Senna when they ran an article on him by stating that Senna was spectacular EVERYTIME he got in the car

Every driver most if the time drives on the limit, he went that little bit further every time, his skill in the wet was second to none, even till this day I've yet to see someone match his skill in the wet, once again, Schumi is almost there, but his raw speed and his ability to drive beyond the limit, lap after lap, has yet to be matched, and after the arrival and departure of Schumi and the arrival of Vettel, two of the most dominating drivers of the past two eras and up there with the best, yet still IMO have not matched Senna. Results and stats, sure Schumi owns that and Vettel quickly adding his name to a few things, but in the amount of time he had and the way he simply just drove,I think he is the best ever and will never be matched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Beleive prosts Renault and Ferrari were crap, yet he still got solid results. As for Senna, he is the fastest driver I've ever seen in terms if raw pace, incredible.

Button's BAR's and Honda's were all pretty crap (except '04) and Button still produced several brilliant drives to get solid results whilst his team-mates achieved virtually nothing, even top-class team-mates like Barrichello.

Yeah but we didnt have the rule changes and he had the best car, if the regs didnt change, he wouldn't have won a single race that season IMO based on Hondas previous campaigns, be intresting to see where he is this season, button wins on days others suffer from severe tyre deg, he is the master if smooth control, you can't deny that.

Vettel & Webber probably wouldnt have won any races in '09 either given Red Bull's previous campaigns, should we say that they didnt deserve to be winners?

Button's had 15 victories and although I understand the point you're trying to make, only a few of those have come when other drivers have suffered with their tyres. He is indeed smooth and most agree that he's one of the best (if not the best) at mastering changeable weather conditions. I also think he's one of the best 'racers' out there, he pulls off great overtaking moves (not in 2013 sadly) and you never see him get it wrong and break his front wing like several other drivers do.

There have been some driver-comparisons in this thread, saying JB is like Ralf, Webber, DC etc. I can't imagine most of those drivers doing a Canada 2011. And when DC had the best car did he dominate with it? Um, no.

Button was fairly evenly matched with Mr god-given-super-talent Lewis (not in qualifying) and yet people still think JB is sh*t.

So I really hope mclaren have got it right this year, JB wins a few races, and reminds the world of his powers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Valid point/s but Redbull have prooved over the course of 4yrs that they owned that era, merc/brawn wernt a shadow on the previous campaign in 09 but they won again, eventually. That was one real head scratcher for me, how brawn could be so dominant in 09 but really struggled the following year, surely much didnt change and they got Schumi back. IMO shows how good that brawn really was, button needed to get to Mclaren sooner than he did and he might actually have more respect, as I think he is a good driver, but not a great and unfortunately that's down to driving a car for over half your career that couldn't do anything. He seemed to struggle a bit with Perez last season and I didnt even rate Sergio any where near Button. Dc did challenge schumi in 2000 though and out drove Mika Hakkinen, your right in saying he is the best of the current field in changing conditions and now you mention it, i cant even remember the last time he made serious contact with anyone. Maybe his getting close to his use by date, so in many ways, this is a make or break season and I think you Jem said he is also out of contract this season isn't he?

Ohh just for the record Jem as I know your a Jenson fan, I like the bloke, he seems like a real nice guy, real polite and freindly. Iam just being honest on where I rate him, doesn't mean my opinion is right.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours. This is why we have discussion forums! So we can debate and disagree but it's all healthy.

For example I disagree that he struggled with Perez; Button's never been great at qualifying but in the races Button was in a different class to Perez and that pretty much cost Perez his job.

I won't argue with the view that Button is nearing the end of his career, and indeed his peak may well be behind him, but I don't believe it is just yet. He's incredibly fit but yes his contract does run out this year so it is make or break. If Magnussen shows him up, it'll be Button out and Alonso in. In fact I think Ron will do everything to lure Alonso back in no matter what, so Button is going to have to wipe the floor with Kevin to keep his job, I reckon.

Button isn't up there with the all-time greats like Prost is, and I would never try to say he is; but I think people do forget things easily, like JB's 2011 season when he ended 2nd in the standings only to Vettel, outscoring Alonso, Hamilton, Webber etc.

As long as mclaren have sorted their issues and given JB plenty of grip, he should be okay. As 'Insider' mentioned earlier, JB can't cope with a car sliding around and having to be tamed. So I will concede that he needs to be happy with the whole balance in order to shine, but when he does have that situation, he can beat anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JB is never and I think will never be spoken in the same sentence as Prost.

You just did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jb is top when the car is perfect for him, any less than perfect and he is just a decent driver , Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all can take a bad can put far above where it should be, no offence but I do not rate JB, nice guy and decent driver but that's about it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How can you say that about Vettel when he hasn't had a bad car yet?

He didn't put a bad car where it should be last weekend like his team-mate did lol.

Welcome to the forums by the way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once and for all, nobody can put a car where it shouldn't be. Unless of course you mean the scenery, a ditch or up a tree. Some drivers get closer to the limits of what the car is capable of, that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno. A car's limit's are found exactly where the traction ends. Some drivers have been able to take a car beyond that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno. A car's limit's are found exactly where the traction ends. Some drivers have been able to take a car beyond that.

Yeah one did it better and pushed it further than anyone has, ever and that was Ayrton Senna.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno. A car's limit's are found exactly where the traction ends. Some drivers have been able to take a car beyond that.

Ah Mike, good to see you!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0