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Jem of the Shire

Big Ron: "there Are Similarities Between Ayrton And Jenson"

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You never quite know what challenges a driver is facing, or just how much he's pushed his car. Senna had his moments, but so did Rindt. I daresay Rindt had more of them just by the sheer nature of the cars he drove. Hunt could also drive the wheels off a car. Alesi did so on occasion and Barrichello did once. And of course there was Bellof who, on the rain-drenched streets of Monaco in a crapwagon Tyrrell was driving faster than the race leaders: Prost and Senna.

Senna was great, no doubt, but spare a thought or two for those that didn't get Senna's publicity.

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I dunno. A car's limit's are found exactly where the traction ends. Some drivers have been able to take a car beyond that.

Limit of adhesion, yes. Limit of the performance envelope? Questionable. The fact that Senna could wring such speed out of the car surely means it was there to be wrung out?

And, hello Mike. biggrin.png

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Limit of adhesion, yes. Limit of the performance envelope? Questionable. The fact that Senna could wring such speed out of the car surely means it was there to be wrung out?

And, hello Mike. biggrin.png

That sounds a bit like 'When I walk I never go faster than my feet', but I do see your point. :)

Yes, I think this whole thing is a question of adhesion, and a driver's ability to go beyond the traction circle to decrease laptimes. If a driver isn't breaking the physical limitations of wheel-on-track then that driver is simply utilizing the car's full mechanical potential.

And heyas Russ! Been quite a while!

Heyas Russ!

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That's right, but senna somehow could go further while others would just under/over steer and loose a heck of time, senna simply didnt, it's like the car was part of his body, knew what would happen before it did.

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Years ago there was a comic strip in the papers called 'Calvin and Hobbes'. I loved that strip. I clipped days out and posted them by my desk. I bought all the subsequent 'collections' books. But as a result adoring Calvin and Hobbes, I limited my enjoyment of the other strips. To this day I cannot read the sunday strips...they just aren't funny, or witty or poignant in the way Calvin and Hobbes was. Worshiping at the altar of Senna is much the same, and I hate to see someone go down that road.

Admiring the ability Senna had behind the wheel is good, but look around the landscape a bit and you'll see other great drives and drivers out there, past and present, with moments of brilliance that sometimes eclipse even the man-god Senna.

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Well one drive that always comes to my mind, Michael Schumacher at Hungary 1998, what a drive, three stopping to Mclaren's 2, had to find 21seconds in 19 laps to come out in first place after his last stop, he held on to win.

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In the modern era Lewis Hamilton is the current man-god of car-wrestling; natural talent beyond probably all his rivals.

As a kid I spent hours reading Calvin & Hobbes collections, eg "the chickens are restless" - I didn't understand half the jokes but still kept me quiet for hours!

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In the modern era Lewis Hamilton is the current man-god of car-wrestling; natural talent beyond probably all his rivals.

As a kid I spent hours reading Calvin & Hobbes collections, eg "the chickens are restless" - I didn't understand half the jokes but still kept me quiet for hours!

Excellent! My favorites were the snowmen strips.

Well one drive that always comes to my mind, Michael Schumacher at Hungary 1998, what a drive, three stopping to Mclaren's 2, had to find 21seconds in 19 laps to come out in first place after his last stop, he held on to win.

That was a good one.

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Suzuka 2000 was another masterful Schumi drive, but I'd have to say ayrton donington drive in 93 was possibly the best I'd ever seen IMHO. Started 5th I think, can't remember and got a bad start and slipped to either 7th or 9th and picked them of one by one and was leading by the end of the first lapin a Mclaren that was really a pig. That race just showed how much more skill he naturally possessed than the others as I Beleive, when it's wet, car performance is halved so its alot more even accross the whole field therefore driver skill plays the major role in getting a good result on days like this, ayrton was on another planet that day, just sensational.

Edited by WebRic

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Actually, he didn't possess any natural skills in the wet. I seem to recall hearing or reading something about how he was unhappy with his performance in the rain and deliberately went out in the rain with a kart until he was satisfied with his wet-weather driving.

Try to get a hold of some footage of Jean Alesi in the wet. Masterful.

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Button and Senna ?

What a joke. Button can't even match Lewis icon2_yuk.gificon2_yuk.gif

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Button and Senna ?

What a joke. Button can't even match Lewis icon2_yuk.gificon2_yuk.gif

I think it's time for a debate. I have plenty of ammo ready!

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