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Emmcee

Should Ricciardo Have His Points And Position Reinstated?

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Sounds like colonial paranoia to me :)

Easy to say when your from a country that has most world champions, our last was Alan jones. Redbull have officially lodged an appeal now, see what happens.

Edited by WebRic

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Heh. America has very few champions, yet I agree with Insider here. (Not about the paranoia, well, maybe...I don't know you after all...but about the topic).

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Yeah well you kinda get like that I guess when your so passionate about something.

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So, FIA said no to RBR:

http://richlandf1.com/?p=21531

I am still amazed RBR actually thought they could walk from this one. La Rascasse 2006 was ambiguous enough to almost succeed. The Crashgate was criminal and stupid, but was done in secrecy and if not for Nelsinho we might have never heard about it. But telling FIA "Look, we don't like your rules so we are going to make our own" is not ambiguous, nor secret...and equally stupid.

All in all, my (to date almsot non existant) admiration for the team went up a notch, because I realized that in all these years this is probably the first time that I notice them doing something stupid.

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RBR were well within their rights to appeal since alot of this came down to "recommendations" and wording of the actual rules. From what I've read RBR despite using their own sensor readings where still within the "rules" so to speak. But it gets very murky due to Whiting and the technical delegations recommendations. For instance if Whiting says do this because I think you should, but the rules don't necessarily state either for or against, what does a team do? Charlie should not be judge, jury and executioner, but on races days in a way he is. And he's been wrong I've felt on quite a few occasions.

He's approved many car innovations for the teams over the years, only to do the usual backflip and then state X or whatever innovation at the time was now illegal. How does that help cost cutting when a team runs something past Whiting, he approves it, they continue to develop it, test it, and then start to race with it, and them bam! oh no, you can't do that it's illegal!! It's reeks of unprofessionalism and of a person who doesn't have his act together.

I'm bummed RBR lost their appeal, but knew from the get go, the FIA were going to do whatever it took to not rule in their favour. I mean how dare anyone question one of the weekend stewards who has not been to the tests, seen the issues, been to the different races and so on. Oh no, thus pro turns up for one weekend a year, and yet can dictate how a multi billion dollar sport is run. It's crazy.

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, Redbull new exactly what they were doing, they could have quite easily raised the issue with other teams and lobbied for a resolution, but no, they decided to stick 2 fingers up at the stewards and got them chopped off, hard lines. I have repeatedly said I feel for DR but every other team complied with the stewards instructions and applied the offset, why the hell should Redbull be any different. Hopefully they have learnt a lesson but knowing Horner and Marko they will manage to screw it up for the drivers with their arrogance

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RBR were well within their rights to appeal since alot of this came down to "recommendations" and wording of the actual rules. From what I've read RBR despite using their own sensor readings where still within the "rules" so to speak. But it gets very murky due to Whiting and the technical delegations recommendations. For instance if Whiting says do this because I think you should, but the rules don't necessarily state either for or against, what does a team do? Charlie should not be judge, jury and executioner, but on races days in a way he is. And he's been wrong I've felt on quite a few occasions.

He's approved many car innovations for the teams over the years, only to do the usual backflip and then state X or whatever innovation at the time was now illegal. How does that help cost cutting when a team runs something past Whiting, he approves it, they continue to develop it, test it, and then start to race with it, and them bam! oh no, you can't do that it's illegal!! It's reeks of unprofessionalism and of a person who doesn't have his act together.

I'm bummed RBR lost their appeal, but knew from the get go, the FIA were going to do whatever it took to not rule in their favour. I mean how dare anyone question one of the weekend stewards who has not been to the tests, seen the issues, been to the different races and so on. Oh no, thus pro turns up for one weekend a year, and yet can dictate how a multi billion dollar sport is run. It's crazy.

Stewards aren't exactly just picked up off the street (unless of course, it is a hooker with Steward as her surname, and then that would infact be true...)

Stewards operating at F1 level have come up through the ranks of motorsport officaildom, many will have been club racers or drivers that had talent but not the means back in their day.

But I do get your point.

Point got, however, does not detract from the fact that you enter motorsport races and in so by doing, accept that the Steward on the day is indeed jury and judge and that you obide by their rulings and interpretations of the rule book (or books). The Stewards, on the opposite side of the coin, know that any ruling that they make, outside of judge-of-fact decisions (i.e those penalised whilst racing e.g. for speeding in the pitlane), that their rulings can be appealed against. RBR did this, and RBR's case was thrown out.

Whether or not there were politics behind this, FIA saving face or what not, is not up for debate in this regard. Marko can postulate all he wants, but the fact remains, is that everyone is expected to follow the above simple ways of racing (and not just at F1 level..the only difference is that F1 has an appeals meeting in Monaco, and the local club racer probably goes to some borrowed meeting room in the offices of a volunteer flaggies place of work).

Now, lets go back to the racing.....(of which Danny is doing bloody fine and is in with a damn good shot of out performing one German, I feel)

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My thoughts on all these penalties is WHY does the driver get penalised so heavilly and not the team ????? Like as if Daniel had anyway of changing things on the car whilst driving?? whereas in Maldonado's case for causing an accident then yeah chuck the book at him and not the team.

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Ricci's multiple penalties for his loose wheel compared with Crashtor's... that tells you right there what is wrong with F1 at the moment. Once caused no damage and was discovered immediately. The only harm done was to Ricci himself, and Crashtor bulldozes and flips another car, and he get's a lesser penalty. Might just record this weeks race again too and see if I can be bothered to watch it.

Also I might add, I've lost all respect or what little I had for Lauda and Merc. A year ago they got caught cheating with the tyre test, having their drivers in white overalls, plain helmets, and them tweeting about how for instance Lewis was in Florida and Disneyland, and all the while they were driving the cars during the tests. They had the audacity to state what they would like their punishment to be BEFORE the hearing. Yet here we've had Lauda asking for further sanctions for RBR over the suspect fuel flow meters. Merc have blown it too many times, and I'm not talking about how they were "winning" at present. The showed a very highly respect Haug out the door, pushed Brawn out, Bell has "left" too. And I guarantee you Wolff and Lauda will be taking all the credit for their current success.

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Also I might add, I've lost all respect or what little I had for Lauda and Merc. A year ago they got caught cheating with the tyre test, having their drivers in white overalls, plain helmets, and them tweeting about how for instance Lewis was in Florida and Disneyland, and all the while they were driving the cars during the tests. They had the audacity to state what they would like their punishment to be BEFORE the hearing. Yet here we've had Lauda asking for further sanctions for RBR over the suspect fuel flow meters. Merc have blown it too many times, and I'm not talking about how they were "winning" at present. The showed a very highly respect Haug out the door, pushed Brawn out, Bell has "left" too. And I guarantee you Wolff and Lauda will be taking all the credit for their current success.

Although I agree with your comments, I must say that whatever they're doing (and from the outside, pushing out people like Haug and Brawn doesn't seem sensible), it's clearly working because they're dominant than even RBR were.

So in that sense, I'm not sure they can really be criticised for making these decisions because look at them now, winning with ease. One might argue that the success is actually down to Brawn & Bell's efforts, which if true I suppose we'll only find out in 2015 (if their dominance disappears).

I dont know what to think of Lauda really, he never seems to talk to the English press - not that I've seen, anyway.

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I must admit I hate the outcome, but I love dans positive attitude, he said he still feels that second in Australia is his and this ruling only makes him more hungry to get back on the podium. Good on ya dan, top attitude.

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LOL indeed.

Daniel was not responsible, but the minute RBR decided to follow their own rules instead of FIA's he was screwed. The punishment, harsh as it is, is not aimed towards the driver, but towards the car, which the driver is regretfuly sitting on. :P

Forget about the actual sensor because that has no bearing in the sanction or in the logic of the punishments. The logic is this:

1) FIA establishes a set of rules and has a discretionary power to decide on certain others. That comes with the job of being the governing body for F1. Just like the referee in a soccer match (and the FIFA).

2) The faulty sensor and such is irrelevant. Even if RBR was right about the sensor being faulty and their measure being more accurate, we cannot know if that's true (because their measurements can only be read with their own software so...), but, most importantly THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO DO IT!

3) The minute they ignored the FIA they broke the rules. Teams are empowered to do many things, except to make their own rulings, which would devoid the sport of all meaning. This is exactly what RBR did.

4) The minute they broke the rules, the car became illegal. Once they took away FIA's duty to decide what is right or wrong, the car had the possibility of doing whatever RBR pleased? Was the fuel flow 100 kg/h like they say? Was it 200 kg/h? Who knows?

5) Please understand, WebRic, that I think that RBR probably kept the fuel flow around 100 kg/h, as I don't think they would be so stupid as to cheat with the fuel flow and warn Whitting about it, but the result is still the same. "We think" cannot replace "we know". So, for all purposes, the car is as illegal as if it had a rocket mounted on its back. All results obtained in an illegal car are null, so that's why you have Daniel so heavily penalised.

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Ohh I totally understand, just sucks that's all lol.

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Ohh I totally understand, just sucks that's all lol.

Lol. Well, at least you can find some comofrt in the fact that Daniel seems to be making abigger impression than good old Mark. Although I am still a fan of Mark :P

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At least Ricci can start GPs lol. Yet when Marko said that, on many other places people had their pitch forks out. But the fact remains, Webber was never a good starter and that only continued when at RBR.

Ricci is doing great and I'm sure is winning over many fans. He's beating Vettel too, but it's not a pasting as some make it out to be. I can't see Vettel being beaten on points this year. Ricci's good no doubt, but 3 races does not make a great. How quickly people forget Vettel is a 4x in a row WDC.

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Ohh I don't forget about vettel's achievements, I was just wondering how long it would take before people remind us just how good Vettel is.

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But as we were saying before the season started, a season in a 'bad' car will show how great he really is (or isn't!)

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But as we were saying before the season started, a season in a 'bad' car will show how great he really is (or isn't!)

That's right, so far in the early stages, dan has the upper hand.

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