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HandyNZL

The Peoples Grand Prix Of Asphalt Dragons As Won By (Drivers Name Here) Driving For Mercedes

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I liked you once so I'll pretend you didn't write that.

The blade will only get sharper...

Well sorry mate but I think kimi is getting a tad frustrated as someone mentioned his lack of motivation the reason for lack of pace in china and he found it quite offensive.

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I need to know what the radio transmission was before Vettel asked if there was an advantage to backing off Alonso, who he was racing hard. He was faster than Ricciardo up until that point...

...and then he started going phenomenally slowly.

My thinking is that Vettel is not the type who would ask to back off unprovoked. And my thinking is that Red Bull is not silly enough to have Vettel back off to the point he is totally uncompetitive.

So, I was left assuming that there was something before Vettel backed off. Some issue, some something he was being made aware of, that forced him to back off. But then I would've thought they'd have said.

His race strategy confused me greatly. Not trying to take away from Ricciardo, who is having a good season, but Ricciardo was not going to beat Vettel until Vettel asked if he needed to back off when racing Alonso.

Why did he back off?

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http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/20/2014-chinese-grand-prix-lap-times-fastest-laps/

According to that graph, at no point Vettel was that fast compared to Alonso, or even Ricciardo. And Daniel was 0.5s faster per lap right up until he got on Vettel's tail (not literally). The order came on lap 24 and Daniel was let through on lap 27, for your reference.

I see nothing suspicious, and the guy that said "tough luck" and ignored team orders or so openly expressed his frustration about being unlapped by a Caterham would hardly forget to mention any "strange thing" that might have forced him to become uncompetitive compared to DR and FA.

He already explained what's wrong: he can't extract the most from the tires. And I suspect he can't get the most of these 2014 cars, either.

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Just to clarify, because I'm lost:

Was lap 24 the lap he was right about to overtake Alonso and he was told to back off, with Daniel nowhere near, or was lap 24 the lap he was told to let Daniel through? If the former, my goodness, those 3 laps between the order on 24 and the pass on 27 must've been moving really slowly for me, because it felt like a lot more happened between Vettel releasing Alonso and Ricciardo passing Vettel. laugh.png

Because that graph does not match my reality of the race, which makes me assume I am crazy. I saw a race in which Vettel was all over the back of Alonso. Then, they played radio of Vettel say, "is there an advantage in backing off?" His team said there was, and he immediately dropped off Alonso and was slow for the rest of the race.

Apparently, that didn't happen at all. laugh.png

Goodness, I'm too stupid for this type of racing. Can't you all throw a full-course caution every ten laps to give me a chance to catch up? It's what I'm used to. tongue.png

But I agree, if anything happened, I would've expected it to have been said, which is why I was just baffled about the "backing off" transmission. And still am. biggrin.png

I would've expected Vettel's style to be very suited to the 2014 rules, personally. What do I know? Very little. Just that no driver has ever impressed me to the degree he has, and now I feel absolutely crushed that the only driver in F1 who I don't like is beating him. laugh.png

(So imagine how bitter I'd be if I were actually a Vettel fan).

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laugh.png

Ok, now I know what you are pointing at. Yes, Vettel was all over Alonso's rear (not literally), but the RBR is desperately slow on the straights so as soon as they exited the corner Alonso disappeared into the distance. That is when the team told him to back off (my guess is to preserve tires, fuel and brake/engine temperature). That is also why I don't think that Vettel cost Ricciardo a podium as I doubt he would be able to overtake Alonso, despite closing in really fast. On the otehr hand, Ricciardo was battling against an Alonso on shot tires, whereas Vettel was battling much earlier in the race.

EDIT: here is an explanation from somebody who paid more attention than I did :)

http://richlandf1.com/?p=21795

Edited by Quiet One

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With full kers and drs he couldn't catch alonso down the straight , that's why he saw it as no point in trying to fight, I think seb was thinking dan might run into tyre trouble later, because remember at that point seb thought he and dan were on the same strategy. So I think he wasn't even worried about dan until the first stop when he realised dan was staying out.

Edited by WebRic

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Okay, thank you. It's making sense again! I need to switch back to watching in English, because they have tons of commercials. With all those ad breaks, I miss all the radio transmissions, so then I don't go making up circumstances that weren't really there! :lol:

On a totally different note, I'd never watched podium interviews until this year (again, because I switched to watching in Spanish...they show these things live. The English broadcast here goes to ad break and makes you watch a 30-minute post-race show just to get the interviews). Has Nico Rosberg always been so brilliant an interview?! Wow. I'm a late-to-the-party Hamilton...fan, I guess, is the word...but this Rosberg kid just has the best lines when he comes second. Love it.

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My race review: Was good until lap 14 when I fell asleep. Only had 4 hours sleep & I couldn't watch it in the afternoon cos Liverpool were playing. No surprise in Mercedes 1-2 finish. Ferrari's new chief has seemed to make an instant impact already. Great signs of things to come for Ferrari and hopefully they can bring the fight to Mercedes soon.

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Fernando drove a blinder, with the car in the state it is, fantastic effort. His efforts in the past few seasons on that crap Ferrari, tend to go unnoticed.

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Fernando drove a blinder, with the car in the state it is, fantastic effort. His efforts in the past few seasons on that crap Ferrari, tend to go unnoticed.

Actually I think his efforts in the last few years is one of the most commonly mentioned things in f1! But yes incredible for him to get that pile of pants into 3rd position.

Really disappointed at how mclaren have just gone backwards very rapidly in the space of 3 races. JB doesn't even seem to have any optimism, they're bringing upgrades to spain but so is everyone else. After melbourne I was hoping for more of the same and to perhaps have JB back on the top step but now that's clearly not going to happen. They're not being mentioned in any topics because they're just making up the numbers although I'm still spending the race trying to figure out where the mclarens are!

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JB made a muscle of a move on I think vergne going into turn one/two, even Martin was suprised on how he pulled it of, he definatly got the elbows out there, see he has still got the fight, sadly an ailing car will put a premature end to his career, it always happens doesn't it?

Edited by WebRic

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Okay, thank you. It's making sense again! I need to switch back to watching in English, because they have tons of commercials. With all those ad breaks, I miss all the radio transmissions, so then I don't go making up circumstances that weren't really there! laugh.png

Here are the radio transcripts so you can finally close this case :)

Sebastian Vettel Guillaume Rocquelin We are too slow on the straights, we won’t pass him. Do you think it’s worth backing off? 16 Guillaume Rocquelin Sebastian Vettel Confirmed. It’s worth backing off.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/23/2014-chinese-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/#2

(That's a great feature of the site, btw)

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Yeah that was awesome to actually read sebs frustrations. He didnt like it in the past when Mark said tough luck did he? His way or no way hey? Pr1ck.

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Yeah that was awesome to actually read sebs frustrations. He didnt like it in the past when Mark said tough luck did he? His way or no way hey? Pr1ck.

Well, you can sort of see Seb's stance (sort of, but not completely) in that if Ricciardo was on a different strategy then I guess there would have been no issue in letting him through. The thing is, Ricciardo was so much quicker, he actually looked like he was on a different strategy!

However, it's probably not a good idea to ignore team orders, besides he may need them himself in future races, a la Massa and Bottas. After Massa's stance in not letting Bottas through, in the next race when he was behind Bottas, he couldn't very well say 'let me through', so he resorted to saying 'his rear tyres look really bad' :lol:

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Well, you can sort of see Seb's stance (sort of, but not completely) in that if Ricciardo was on a different strategy then I guess there would have been no issue in letting him through. The thing is, Ricciardo was so much quicker, he actually looked like he was on a different strategy!

However, it's probably not a good idea to ignore team orders, besides he may need them himself in future races, a la Massa and Bottas. After Massa's stance in not letting Bottas through, in the next race when he was behind Bottas, he couldn't very well say 'let me through', so he resorted to saying 'his rear tyres look really bad' laugh.png

:lol: See? That's a smart guy, there. :eusa_think:

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I'm valuable to my team where I work but if my boss gave me an order and I just said "um, how about no" there'd be a serious discussion and probably disciplinary action.

Instead Horner gives it "well he's a racer, we want him to be like that" well then why even get on the radio in the first place?? Dock his wages lol

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Instead Horner gives it "well he's a racer, we want him to be like that" well then why even get on the radio in the first place?? Dock his wages lol

Indeed. Sometimes teams aren't the brightest :lol:

Surely, the conversation should have gone -

Vettel: Is he on different tyres to me?

Engineer: Yes.........yes, he is.........let him on through

Problem solved. Any discrepancies can be sorted out later.

If I was a team boss, I would just have a remote anti-push-to-pass button installed on both cars which reduces the engine power by about 10%. Then when you have have this sort of situation, just tell them they are free to race then just press the button for whichever car you need to be slowed down. Again, problem solved.

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If I was a team boss, I would just have a remote anti-push-to-pass button installed on both cars which reduces the engine power by about 10%. Then when you have have this sort of situation, just tell them they are free to race then just press the button for whichever car you need to be slowed down. Again, problem solved.

Ha yeah good idea! Well they already can remotely turn the 'wick' down from the pitwall, so maybe they should just do that and not tell anybody. In fact maybe they were doing that to Mark Webber for the last 3 years of his f1 career.

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Ha yeah good idea! Well they already can remotely turn the 'wick' down from the pitwall, so maybe they should just do that and not tell anybody. In fact maybe they were doing that to Mark Webber for the last 3 years of his f1 career.

Make sense usually the most plausible outcome you can come up with is the right one.

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Why stop there? Remotely steer the cars from the pit wall, too. I can think of a few drivers who would benefit! :)

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They've done that already, Piquet jr?

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