Discussion of Sebastian Vettel's Season

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I probably won't be able to find a link to the quotes to back up my next comment, but I do remember Helmut Markko being particularly unsupportive of Webber, whilst at the same time banging on about how great Seb is.

And if Helmut doesnt like you then you're bound to feel a bit left out in the cold, regardless of whether you're getting the same mechanical equipment

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I've read that before mate, but read just above what you quoted "they TOOK the front wing from Webber" it's right there.

There's also the claim that Mark Webber was unhappy with the wing and once it went to Vettel, he threw his tantrums again

[Emmcee 0]

There's also the claim that Mark Webber was unhappy with the wing and once it went to Vettel, he threw his tantrums again

Where going to have to agree to disagree mate, I know personally that, that wasn't the case, but the person who told me, you can Beleive it or not, but if that's the case then the same approach needs to be used when reading EVERY article the press release that you have to make your own judgement up as we all know how they will twist a story to add some fire. This same person has also told me alot of things that he has seen and heard being involved with one of the major f1 teams, that the press don't catch wind of. Bottom line is, can't always Beleive what your read. We knew the press consistantly stirred the Redbull pot.

[ChrisBee312 0]

The way I see it, Vettel and mark only had similar equipment in 09/10 then all of a sudden Vettel is smashing everyone and his own teammate who he struggled to catch in the point standing in 2010, yea same car alright. As for Prost Mansell and co, they all won in more than one machine, well except Mika who was loyal to a poor Mclaren team and turned there fortunes around, so that doesn't fit in this discussion. Vettel is bloody good there is no doubt about it, he needs to get on top again this year, if he does, ill shut my mouth. He seems to MOSTLY have an ordinary race if he is t at the front doesn't he? That shows me, if he was in Alonso's position in that Ferrari, I seriously don't think he would do aswell. That's my opinion though. I know he won in a toro rosso, but you can't say the conditions didnt suit his car more so than others, it did, otherwise, why wasn't he first at spa, or other "fast" circuits? They had Ferrari power and we all know Ferrari have some serious top end speed. That's because Lady Luck was on his side that weekend.

Maybe Vettels car was better, but can we prove it? I think we need to assume they're equal. Also consider that the RBR team really prefers to win the constructors title for obviou$$ reasons so why would they not provide mark the same opportunity? Does everyone lament that Alonso is 30 secs up on Massa nearly every race last year and assume his car is better or more looked after? I dont know why people find it so hard to believe that Vettel landed a great team simultaneously as he improved as a driver. Yes rare, but I don't think there's much evidence that he is NOT good. Maybe not the best, who said that he was, but the man makes nearly no mistakes, and is very consistently fast. I am not a huge vettel fan but I respect the man and he takes F1 very seriously so he deserves his success i think. sure hes brash at times but that doesnt erase his palmares. Why do people think vettel isnt good? webbers performance cant be ignored whilst claiming newey won all these races himself - seriously?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

welcome!

I dont think anyone would suggest vettel isnt good, but some think that RBR was heavily geared towards him, to detriment of Mark. As you say though there isn't any evidence to suggest Seb actually received better parts on his car (except that front wing episode at silverstone).

I don't like what Seb did at malaysia last year and I cant wait to see how he performs in 2014 now that it's going to be more of a struggle. It was quite odd seeing his performance at Melbourne.

[Emmcee 0]

Nice to see seb acknowledging Daniels hard work. I must say, being an avid Vettel h8r, becoming a father has forced him to mature fast and look at the big picture. Twelve months ago, would have been a very different seb IMO. Would be great if dan keeps beating Vettel but I expect seb to come back soon, dan must just feel better in the chassis ATM than Vettel, it would be alot easier for Dan to adapt as he doesn't really know how or where the Redbull is and feels compared to seb who has had a few years in the seat. Just my opinion.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/485317/Vettel_Ricciardo_beating_me_fair_and_square/

[Caesar 0]

Ahhhh, good to see Seb's ''glute maximus'' gettin' kicked by young Dan.

[Emmcee 0]

Ohh tell me about it and he is just simply out smarting him and out driving him. I just can't Beleive how stubborn seb is, I really can't, obvious he was a child who got everything he asked for, fed the silver spoon if you will. Well seb can take that spoon and eat dans a## because that's all he is seeing ATM.

[maure 1]

Sebastian "wtf" Vettel

[Emmcee 0]

Loves it when kobayashi passed him, wonder what on earth was going through his head? That would have been a low blow. He got upset because Kamui unlapped himself (which his is entitled) to do. Kamui is racing aswell, seb said he will only have to pass him again any way. Whats he mean by that? Everyone has to stop there race because seb might pass you in 3 laps. Go home you sook, or man up and take it like a man. Remember, to be a good winner, you also have to be a good loser.

[maure 1]

With his record, Sebastian wtf Vettel cannot be a loser. After all, if he were to become a loser, his record would a mockery of the... F1 show.

[Emmcee 0]

So you don't Beleive in bad sportsmanship? Because that's what he showed yesterday.

[maure 1]

Entitled drivers believe they are above reproach. We've seen plenty of them over the years, of course. But yes, this is their era, a time when teams appoint the winner and the press cheerleads, when championships are "managed" for the benefit of TV ratings. In short, the last half a decade or so.

Not that any of this is new. Naively, I thought it would be over when Schumacher finally did not have a car above the rest. But after a brief no-man's-land, things have gotten only worse.

Guess who's set to win this one and ponder why his "brilliance" has been all but missing since hype until now.

[Massa 0]

The love I have for WebRic's swing from praising Vettel for admitting Ricciardo is beating him to now being mad at a racing driver who wanted a better result (that he could've had before the "back off" deal with Alonso that had to be caused by something...like Ecclestone offering them a share of TV money if they let Ferrari keep a podium position ). Webber's defiance to team orders was the stuff of legends, apparently. And Vettel's? Apparently, a different story when it is not the Australian in the seat...

Oh, well. I'm just sad that Vettel's not competitive.

[Emmcee 0]

The love I have for WebRic's swing from praising Vettel for admitting Ricciardo is beating him to now being mad at a racing driver who wanted a better result (that he could've had before the "back off" deal with Alonso that had to be caused by something...like Ecclestone offering them a share of TV money if they let Ferrari keep a podium position ). Webber's defiance to team orders was the stuff of legends, apparently. And Vettel's? Apparently, a different story when it is not the Australian in the seat...

Oh, well. I'm just sad that Vettel's not competitive.

How much do people need to kiss this guys rear end before admitting he is a spoilt brat. If you read all my posts I was thrilled to see seb taking a different perspective on things but when push comes to shove, he pulls of the mask. That's what pi$$ed me of. If webber said the same thing or Schumi for that matter, everyone would have been all over them. Why because this is the first time seb is really struggling, your supposed to feel sorry for him? Get real, he needs to grow up. If he was faster than dan I can see your point, but for two races in a row, he hasn't been, so why risk a better result for your other driver due to frustration and selfishness.

[Massa 0]

It was no defense. Just mere amusement that in the matter of 24 hours, the tone changed so much.

I see both sides, but remind you of Bahrain, when Vettel let Ricciardo through no questions asked. I wonder what was different for Vettel here. Perhaps because his DRS was broken at that point, he was more understanding, but here, where it was just pace, he wasn't. I don't know.

But it's a balance. I know that. If you are too willing to lose to a teammate for the sake of the WCC, you are not competitive enough as a person to succeed in F1. But you'll never succeed if you don't play for the team, either. How hard.

I don't feel the least bit bad for Vettel, or for anyone racing cars professionally, by the way. I feel bad for myself because I'm too biased to enjoy all these wonderful teammate battles of which I am always on the losing end.

[Emmcee 0]

Bahrain, he might have let dan through no questions asked but did you see how he let him by? Reminds me of Spain 2010, barrichello and Schumi, could have Vettel pushed any closer to the wall? Well he could have, but if that wasn't a message, what is. Seb is feeling the pressure, he feels he HAS to produce being a 4x champ, dan just has to turn up and drive.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I really don't understand why teams even bother getting on the radio, cos it seems more and more like the drivers will just say go f**k yourself. Not just Seb, we've seen it with Massa this year too, and we'll see more of it this year I'm sure.

Yes Seb did move over but his initial reply of 'tough luck', regardless of whether he knew what strategy Dan was on, is the reply of someone who needs to be slapped in the face and reminded of who pays his gigantic salary.

[Quiet One 15]

F1 is a teams sport so team orders are unavoidable. I always thought that banning team orders was as logical as banning the sunrise. But I consider it wonderful that team orders are allowed, but not mandatory. It allows for comebacks like this one, and the added tension within the teams. Drama, gentlemen, drama!

AS for Seb, the gigamtic salary he is paid is not a sign of Red Bull's compassionate soul, but the millions they invest to get hundreds of millions in return.

And he is not (and has never been) the top paid F1 driver, not even second. His most remarkable record is being the cheapest 4x WDC ever

[Emmcee 0]

Doesn't matter, he still earns more than me and does a job he likes, what more does he want?

[Emmcee 0]

Well the talk around town is apparently Vettel and his lack of coming to grips with the new chassis.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/485736/Pressure_effect_is_Vettels_new_challenge__Massa/

[just having a laugh 0]

Can't really disagree based on this years performance, granted the car is not the best for power but is suspect its pretty much better than anything else aero wise, a few more races od being outperformed by his teammate and I suspect the questions that are rumbling around will become a lot louder. It almost makes me wonder if Vettel is very like Jenson in having to have a near perfect setup before he can perform ?

[Emmcee 0]

It's not the setup, we've seen him drive cars that were quite a handful,even his Redbull was a handful sometimes as its near impossible to get it setup 100% spot on, they can come close, some weekends there way out, I think seb is one heck of a driver, but I think maybe he plain and simply can't get to grips with this particular format ATM. I mean we saw it with Schumi, he struggled for 3 yrs because he couldn't come to grips with the format at the time and I think Vettel is going through the same deal. We know how good Schumi was and we know how good seb is, it has to be this.

[Massa 0]

The way Vettel raced with so little rear wing on so many tracks last year, I thought this new "drivers'" format would be good for him. Pair it with me underestimating Ricciardo, and it's been quite the surprise. That's why they race, though, right? Nothing to see if we could predict it all before...

By the way, the defending WDC losing to his teammate the following year, should it happen to Vettel this year:

Button (2010 to Hamilton, but had switched teams)

Räikkönen (2008 to Massa)

Alonso (2007 to Hamilton, though they were tied in points scored and, like Button, it was a team switch)

Senna (1989 to Prost)

Lauda (1985 to Prost)

Piquet (1982 to Patrese)

Jones (1981 to Reutemann)

Scheckter (1980 to Villeneuve)

Andretti (1979 to Reutemann)

Those are the only times it has happened 1973-present. I stopped at 1973 because that's when you stop seeing the two, full-season drivers to a team format.

I'm sure there are explanations as to why it comes and goes, but I found it interesting.

[Quiet One 15]

Even more interesting a statistic is that, no matter who wins this year, the record that no driver has ever won more championships than the number of letters in his last name will stand.

Come to think of it, Hulkenberg is really hindered in this regard (10 WDCs? Impossibru!). I would get rid of him ASAP. And there you have a reason not to hire van der Garde again (11 letters not counting spaces...this kid is hopeless). Now, Pic, on the other hand...