Alonso's Contract Loophole.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

The best is when he starts 10 news threads just linking to 10 news articles and adds "So what do you think" or some one-liner.

Come on guys get off his back, the fact he's the most active poster here is a good thing and reading through this thread it seems like you are (or were) just trying to wind him up. And the quote I've put above is just a plain insult, yet you are there having a go at him for the stuff he writes??

The reason we have forums is because people have different opinions and so we have discussions. An opinion shouldn't be called 'BS', especially when that opinion is that Kimi is not performing this season, cos it's plain fact that he isn't, we all expected a lot, lot more!

Anyway what were we talking about? I don't think Alonso would leave unless there were a seat at Merc available, which there isn't.

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

Well said.

I can imagine Alonso taking a risk on Honda, but that is about it.

[Emmcee 0]

Come on guys get off his back, the fact he's the most active poster here is a good thing and reading through this thread it seems like you are (or were) just trying to wind him up. And the quote I've put above is just a plain insult, yet you are there having a go at him for the stuff he writes??

The reason we have forums is because people have different opinions and so we have discussions. An opinion shouldn't be called 'BS', especially when that opinion is that Kimi is not performing this season, cos it's plain fact that he isn't, we all expected a lot, lot more!

Anyway what were we talking about? I don't think Alonso would leave unless there were a seat at Merc available, which there isn't.

Exactly, thaks mate.

[Imatool 0]

Alonso only really has three options if this is correct and he has a get out clause if they fail top 3 in WCC.

Stay at Ferrari and pray for a miracle they can deliver a wining package. (Hasn't really happened since he joined) - 95%

Switch to Mclaren take a huge paycut and a risk on Honda whilst praying for a miracle for them to put a good car on track. (Something they have struggled with in recent years) - 4% Chance

Retire to Endurance racing. (Something he has hinted he would like to do after F1) - 1% Chance

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

I doubt he would need to take a pay cut, the Santander money would go with him.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

Ferrari wont deliver a winning car with Alonso there, he sucks at feedback. Kimi on the other hand excels at it as demonstrated at Lotus

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

Is that assessment based on anything? Raikkonen got a lot out of the Lotus in 2013, but I am unsure if that proves he gives good feedback, rather that he can drive.

[Emmcee 0]

Ferrari wont deliver a winning car with Alonso there, he sucks at feedback. Kimi on the other hand excels at it as demonstrated at Lotus

seems to be doing fine I mean he is almost 100 points ahead of kimi.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

Is that assessment based on anything? Raikkonen got a lot out of the Lotus in 2013, but I am unsure if that proves he gives good feedback, rather that he can drive.

Its based on a lot of reading I do on other forums and the fact that ever since he went there the car has sucked.

seems to be doing fine I mean he is almost 100 points ahead of kimi.

Another blinder from WebRic that doesnt even address the point.

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

I tend not to believe what I read on the internet. I listen, but really, what do people on forums know about an F1 driver's feedback skills? Alonso is solely responsible for the Ferrari being slow, then, nothing to do with engineers, designers, aerodynamicists, engine development, CFD, the wind tunnel, telemetry?

Your second comment is yet another unnecessary criticism.

It is actually a good point. I will explain. Feedback aids car setup, more so than car development. So, if Raikkonen is so good at feedback, why is Alonso almost 100 points ahead? Wouldn't Raikkonen's car be setup exactly as he wants it and hence fast? As fast or faster than Alonso, anyway. What WebRic was saying is that good feedback equals good setup equals speed.

[Emmcee 0]

Its based on a lot of reading I do on other forums and the fact that ever since he went there the car has sucked.

Another blinder from WebRic that doesnt even address the point.

It certainly address's the point, you've stated alonso sucks at car devopment, yet he is almost 100 points ahead of kimi. If kimi is so good at car development don't you think 11 races in he would have found something? Yeah the car sucks hey? Is that the only excuse there is for alonso utter domination over kimi so far?

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

I tend not to believe what I read on the internet. I listen, but really, what do people on forums know about an F1 driver's feedback skills? Alonso is solely responsible for the Ferrari being slow, then, nothing to do with engineers, designers, aerodynamicists, engine development, CFD, the wind tunnel, telemetry?

Your second comment is yet another unnecessary criticism.

It is actually a good point. I will explain. Feedback aids car setup, more so than car development. So, if Raikkonen is so good at feedback, why is Alonso almost 100 points ahead? Wouldn't Raikkonen's car be setup exactly as he wants it and hence fast? As fast or faster than Alonso, anyway. What WebRic was saying is that good feedback equals good setup equals speed.

This car was designed before Raikkonen joined the team buddy.

[Emmcee 0]

This car was designed before Raikkonen joined the team buddy.

So the Redbull was designed before ricciardo got there then? Plus kimi is a world champion he should be able to adapt to these cars. Ferrari wanted kimi for a while I doubt nothing was put in place to benifit his return. Alonso is just walking all over him. The reason he was quick at lotus, was the car was half decent and had no teammate that was as serious at there job as alonso or for that matter as quick. I knew kimi would get beaten before the season even started, for the simply fact he is going from one extrem to another. Laid back lotus, doing what he wants, to flatout Ferrari and spending more time with engineers to not only close the gap at the front but to his own teammate.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

So the Redbull was designed before ricciardo got there then? Plus kimi is a world champion he should be able to adapt to these cars. Ferrari wanted kimi for a while I doubt nothing was put in place to benifit his return. Alonso is just walking all over him. The reason he was quick at lotus, was the car was half decent and had no teammate that was as serious at there job as alonso or for that matter as quick. I knew kimi would get beaten before the season even started, for the simply fact he is going from one extrem to another. Laid back lotus, doing what he wants, to flatout Ferrari and spending more time with engineers to not only close the gap at the front but to his own teammate.

He is adapting, and its great that you knew all that, you must be awesome. Also why do you keep turning this into current performance driver comparison. You keep missing my point. This has been Alonsos team for 5 years, the car is designed around him, by him, for him. Next year the car will have had Kimis input and it will be a better car.

What the hell does Ricciardo have to do with it?

Also well done on your spelling and grammar mate, good effort.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

I tend not to believe what I read on the internet. I listen, but really, what do people on forums know about an F1 driver's feedback skills?

Correct, which is why most of your posts come across as white noise.

[Emmcee 0]

He is adapting, and its great that you knew all that, you must be awesome. Also why do you keep turning this into current performance driver comparison. You keep missing my point. This has been Alonsos team for 5 years, the car is designed around him, by him, for him. Next year the car will have had Kimis input and it will be a better car.

What the hell does Ricciardo have to do with it?

Also well done on your spelling and grammar mate, good effort.

That's all you got, man I feel sorry for you. Your missing the point, why can everyone else adapt? Alonso has dragged that Ferrari up the top every year and part of that is due to aerodynamics from not having there own wind tunnel. They were using toyota's in Germany. That's there major flaw. How is a design issue based on aerodynamics alonso's fault? The aerodynamicist is emplyed to recieve drivers input yes, but at the end of the day, he alone is the one who comes up with the solution. Alonso has just been masking this constant design flaw but stunning drives. I doubt next year will be any different. If he decides to stay that is. Don't get me wrong, kimi was real quick in Hungary this weekend,top 10 in all practice sessions I Beleive and it blew my mind that Ferrari kept him in towards the end of qualy. But overall IMO, alonso is showing he is a much better driver at this point. IMO and read what I just said, IMO Alonso has been the best out there ever since 2005. That just my opinion.

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

If you have nothing useful to say, insult the poster seems to be the mantra for SwingOnthe Spiral.

You are wasting your time replying, WebRic and so am I, but that is the end of it.

Here is another definition for you. "An Internet troll is someone who posts offensive, controversial, insulting or divisive material on an Internet community."

​Other features of a troll are missing the point, lacking social skills, lacking imagination. There are lots more, but you get my point.

We are doing ourselves and the forum no favours by feeding this person.

Edit: I went looking and found the ignore option in settings, so I no longer need to read and tolerate such behaviour from this person.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

That's all you got, man I feel sorry for you. Your missing the point, why can everyone else adapt? Alonso has dragged that Ferrari up the top every year and part of that is due to aerodynamics from not having there own wind tunnel. They were using toyota's in Germany. That's there major flaw. How is a design issue based on aerodynamics alonso's fault? The aerodynamicist is emplyed to recieve drivers input yes, but at the end of the day, he alone is the one who comes up with the solution. Alonso has just been masking this constant design flaw but stunning drives. I doubt next year will be any different. If he decides to stay that is. Don't get me wrong, kimi was real quick in Hungary this weekend,top 10 in all practice sessions I Beleive and it blew my mind that Ferrari kept him in towards the end of qualy. But overall IMO, alonso is showing he is a much better driver at this point. IMO and read what I just said, IMO Alonso has been the best out there ever since 2005. That just my opinion.

Ok fair call.

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

Great, the ignore function works.

[KoolMonkey 0]

It is actually a good point. I will explain. Feedback aids car setup, more so than car development. So, if Raikkonen is so good at feedback, why is Alonso almost 100 points ahead? Wouldn't Raikkonen's car be setup exactly as he wants it and hence fast? As fast or faster than Alonso, anyway. What WebRic was saying is that good feedback equals good setup equals speed.

To a certain point. You can't give feedback and setup a Prius to make it handle like an Ariel Atom. There is only so much you can do. If Ferrari were actually replacing parts, suspensions, wishbones and others to address Kimi's issues, then you're point would be more than valid. But at least Kimi would have a proper chance to get some change to the chassis and feel of the car. Right now all they are doing is topical stuff. It's minimal. Add to this Ferrari strangely retained the pull rod suspension. Their car stinks, even if Alonso is getting a few good results here and there. It's still a lemon.

Only when a driver is actually been given the things he's asking for, can anyone of us then be critical of them if they don't make any improvement. This sport is run by interns and non-drivers who look at their computers and graphs and tell the drivers how to drive the car. Time and time and time again, the drivers prove them wrong. But that's how the teams run themselves these days.

Alonso is no more responsible for the car being slow then Kimi. But he's also had a whole year more to get comfortable with the pull rod suspension too. Add to that, the car is how he wants it. It's been designed and created primarily from his feedback and needs. Fingers crossed Ferrari ditch the pull rod suspension, and Allison makes a proper car for next year. One that both Kimi and Alonso can do well in.

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

I agree mainly, but if Raikkonen were the setup master and Alonso rubbish, I do not see a 100 point deficit, irrespective of the car being a clear lemon. Please bear in mind this was in response to someone who was defending his position that Alonso is responsible for the Ferrari being slow, having been there for five years. It is clearly not about setup alone, the car is flawed, but it si coming down to who can get the most out of it, which is down to setup and driver skill.

For a given car, if one driver is the master of setup and the other hopeless, one would beat the other, but things are the wrong way around.

My understanding of pull rod is that it gives a lower C of G but makes it difficult to make setup changes. I am unsure that being used to pull rod is a factor, it is a geometry change, one is the other upside down, so I see it more responsible for the team being unable to develop the car quickly, than a fundamental flaw in car behaviour.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

To a certain point. You can't give feedback and setup a Prius to make it handle like an Ariel Atom. There is only so much you can do. If Ferrari were actually replacing parts, suspensions, wishbones and others to address Kimi's issues, then you're point would be more than valid. But at least Kimi would have a proper chance to get some change to the chassis and feel of the car. Right now all they are doing is topical stuff. It's minimal. Add to this Ferrari strangely retained the pull rod suspension. Their car stinks, even if Alonso is getting a few good results here and there. It's still a lemon.

Only when a driver is actually been given the things he's asking for, can anyone of us then be critical of them if they don't make any improvement. This sport is run by interns and non-drivers who look at their computers and graphs and tell the drivers how to drive the car. Time and time and time again, the drivers prove them wrong. But that's how the teams run themselves these days.

Alonso is no more responsible for the car being slow then Kimi. But he's also had a whole year more to get comfortable with the pull rod suspension too. Add to that, the car is how he wants it. It's been designed and created primarily from his feedback and needs. Fingers crossed Ferrari ditch the pull rod suspension, and Allison makes a proper car for next year. One that both Kimi and Alonso can do well in.

Finally someone with half a brain.

[KoolMonkey 0]

That's why teams don't use pull rods. Because it's still all just guess work on the setup, and why it takes so long in development to see any improvements.

I don't think personally Alonso is rubbish at car setup, but he's no maestro either. The fact remains he's been the undisputed top dog at Ferrari for half a decade. Every desire, every whim, they have catered to him. How many other drivers have been given that level of personal attention, even the #2 told to fall on his sword when commanded? Schumi yes, but Alonso is then in a class of only 2.

He should be better in the car than Kimi due to this. And he is. Thus for me it's actally going as it should be. If Kimi had been in the Ferrari for the past 5 years just like Alonso, then the 100 point deficit would hold alot more weight. Kimi would have up to this point been well and truly beaten.

Kimi's no schmuck when it comes to feedback and car setup either. But this current car demands too much time, for so little to nothing gain. It's only a matter of a month or so before they publicly pull the plug and focus on next year. There engine is already too heavy, too slow and too thirsty. The list goes on.

I guage how Kimi's going on his responses, and he seems to be a bit happier with the car. That's good for his fans, because hopefully it helps him get some more proper results. But the car will never be to his liking, what to speak of his preferences to a tight front end, and preferences to steering.

At the end of the day, comparisons are useless, because there are simply too many variables that come into play.

[SwingOnTheSpiral 0]

That's why teams don't use pull rods. Because it's still all just guess work on the setup, and why it takes so long in development to see any improvements.

I don't think personally Alonso is rubbish at car setup, but he's no maestro either. The fact remains he's been the undisputed top dog at Ferrari for half a decade. Every desire, every whim, they have catered to him. How many other drivers have been given that level of personal attention, even the #2 told to fall on his sword when commanded? Schumi yes, but Alonso is then in a class of only 2.

He should be better in the car than Kimi due to this. And he is. Thus for me it's actally going as it should be. If Kimi had been in the Ferrari for the past 5 years just like Alonso, then the 100 point deficit would hold alot more weight. Kimi would have up to this point been well and truly beaten.

Kimi's no schmuck when it comes to feedback and car setup either. But this current car demands too much time, for so little to nothing gain. It's only a matter of a month or so before they publicly pull the plug and focus on next year. There engine is already too heavy, too slow and too thirsty. The list goes on.

I guage how Kimi's going on his responses, and he seems to be a bit happier with the car. That's good for his fans, because hopefully it helps him get some more proper results. But the car will never be to his liking, what to speak of his preferences to a tight front end, and preferences to steering.

At the end of the day, comparisons are useless, because there are simply too many variables that come into play.

And no-one but the drivers and the team know the truth either. Which means its all well and good to debate, but to get all intense about it is a bit sad.

Plus Kimi has already said next year will be better, which leads me to my original point, that Alonso sucks at car development and Kimi will sort it out.

[Emmcee 0]

Kimi will sort is out, he has had 11 races so far to sort his own car out, how much more time he needs?