Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Delivery_Driver

Verstappen Replaces Vergne At S.t.r

52 posts in this topic

Ohh man our Alan Jones is bad for that. Michael Shoemaker, Eddie Irving, Esteban Tooroo and so on. He is shocking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alan Jones as in the 1980 world champ?

Yeah, pi55 head. Loves a drink.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, they are going to have to be very careful out there with all these super quick rookies. Budgets will double with broken cars and I predict safety cars everywhere. They may be all good but can they trawl the points their teams need to cover the outlay and sponsor draw? The way to kill off F1 [because it is already gravely ill] is to retire the proven, reliable and experienced drivers way too soon. The majority of TV viewers are aged between 45-75 and with the audience dwindling yearly you don't need to fill the chicken run with day old chicks. The hope is that the young guys will bring in a younger audience but 20 somethings world wide can hardly afford a mortgage much less a hot hatch. I fear we are heading towards GP1 here at a rate of knots if not Motocross on slicks. God forbid!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's it, how much younger they want to go? Yeah he might be quick but you go through lower formulas to learn your race craft. One thing is to be quick but to know how to use it and basically read a situation. It's like learning to read the traffic on the road. At the age he is and minimal single seat experience, I couldn't care of he won every single seater race he has entered so far, it's not formula one. How are people supposed to hold formula one above the rest when they are picking up drivers who have no experience. He has alot to proove. Give me a drive, I smoke everyone on formula one 2013 on the ps3 and smash the living day lights out of them, I can send Toro Rosso a video to proove myslef, does that qualify for a race seat?

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's it, how much younger they want to go? Yeah he might be quick but you go through lower formulas to learn your race craft. One thing is to be quick but to know how to use it and basically read a situation. It's like learning to read the traffic on the road. At the age he is and minimal single seat experience, I couldn't care of he won every single seater race he has entered so far, it's not formula one. How are people supposed to hold formula one above the rest when they are picking up drivers who have no experience. He has alot to proove. Give me a drive, I smoke everyone on formula one 2013 on the ps3 and smash the living day lights out of them, I can send Toro Rosso a video to proove myslef, does that qualify for a race seat?

Probably

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey handy, what about robin Frijins? How highly do u rate him champ?

Frijins - very capable, but he seems to have gone a little off the boil. Certainly one to watch for.

Just heard a very brief interview with Max on the radio in my car. First of all, his english for a 16-yr old is great! Definitely getting an A* in that school subject!

He's not short on confidence. He said last year he made the jump from karts to cars and has done well, and that's a much bigger step than going from cars to F1. Naive? We'll see.

He was asked if he's worried about the danger of F1, and he said "no not really. The cars are so safe now and I think there's more danger cycling in the city than driving an f1 car". He is right there.

Bad BBC: their sport correspondent kept pronouncing 'Jos' incorrectly!

Naive? Hell yes! There is so much different between the step of lower formulae to F1. I'm not sure to know where to begin, but horsepower and grip, engineering feedback and fitness are all at the top of my list.

He is going to have to be babied on the engineering side - his feedback will be awful as he simply hasn't put the ground work into knowing what changes do what to the car - you don't learn that in a simulator. Only by the seat of your pants will you learn it, and it takes time - sort of like muscle memory playing guitar or piano.

I pity the people he gets in the way of next year....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is, if he ever throws his toys out of the pram, he will be actually throwing his toys out of the pram.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is, if he ever throws his toys out of the pram, he will be actually throwing his toys out of the pram.

Lol yeah that would be a real "dummy spit".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohh man our Alan Jones is bad for that. Michael Shoemaker, Eddie Irving, Esteban Tooroo and so on. He is shocking. Hahahahahaha it had 2 think of Esteban Tooroo, then I remembered you were infact taking about the minardi driver Esteban Tuero, Murray Walker was another one to be stumped by his name, contantly calling him Ernesto Tuero!!!!! God bless the pair of them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Verstappen may surprise us all. I hope he does, writing him off before he turns a wheel may prove to be premature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Verstappen may surprise us all. I hope he does, writing him off before he turns a wheel may prove to be premature.

Possibly, but doesn't the age worry you? Minimal technical experience? What you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some knowledgeable people believe he has got it and some 20 year olds are immature, maybe he has matured beyond his years. As far as technical ability goes, I believe many current F1 drivers are limited in that regard and I am not sure it is as important as some believe. if you speak to the Engineers, what they want from the driver is a detailed description of what the car is doing, so that they can develop strategies to overcome the shortfalls. They do not need him to tell them it needs more rebound on the front, just what it feels like. Bear in mind also they have enormous amounts of telemetry whcihc tells them what the car is doing many times per second. Compared with that, the driver's input is not what it is often cracked up to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some knowledgeable people believe he has got it and some 20 year olds are immature, maybe he has matured beyond his years. As far as technical ability goes, I believe many current F1 drivers are limited in that regard and I am not sure it is as important as some believe. if you speak to the Engineers, what they want from the driver is a detailed description of what the car is doing, so that they can develop strategies to overcome the shortfalls. They do not need him to tell them it needs more rebound on the front, just what it feels like. Bear in mind also they have enormous amounts of telemetry whcihc tells them what the car is doing many times per second. Compared with that, the driver's input is not what it is often cracked up to be.

Maybe your right, but how can Jos say his best option is formula one? It's different know than when he was driver it's basically a totally different sport. You can have talent and speed but I Beleive you need that experience driving against drivers who are just as hungry as you. How can his 20 odd races in f3 give him the experience for f1? I know kimi did few races aswell but that was back in the day when testing was alot more free. So simulator work is what he will be doing. I know they have recently put through an English kid from the GT academy, he won't be the first, so maybe playing f1 on the playstation all this time, might actually pay of for something :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't doubt his physical prowess or his driving skills, but at 17 I do question his life experience and sense of responsibility.

In your early years, every year makes a huge difference in your development as a person. Nineteen already was pushing things a little bit too much, and thankfully everything went ok with Vettel, Alguersuari and Alonso...but that's not excuse to keep pushing even more.

Then again, what do I know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting an F1 kindergarten...

Get them on powered trikes when toddling, sharpen up their media skills with local newspaper reporters and pair them off with the toddling sons and daughters of TV Reality shows, then sell them under contract to Red Bull. I tell you, it's a money maker.... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Handy have you seen him race?

If I recall correctly, you used to work with Ron Tauranac, did you not? If so, then you will appreciate my position on this. It is not merely his racecraft that should be judged, and even so, this has only so far been judged against those his age, and more importantly, experience. Judging him on his sole F3 season (still ongoing with two rounds left), sees him sitting second in the championship, 10 points ahead of third place. Of the 27 races they have had, he has failed to score any points in 10 of them, so 37% of the races. He has however had a run of victories, notably at Spa and Norisring, where he notched a string of six wins in a row. In total, he has 7 wins, 2 seconds, 3 thirds, and 5 other points paying places.

Now we all know Spa as a drivers track, so that indicates (to me at least), that there is some latent talent in him. Norisring, however, is more of an arcade track (built on the old Nazi rally grounds in fact).

Norisring-map.jpg

Not exactly a technical track...

The average age of the 28 drivers in Euro-F3 is a twinkle under 20, so let's just call it that. Max is the youngest (or second youngest). A few drivers have been in GP3.

The problem I forsee is the exponential difference in experience and technical ability needed between a Euro-F3 (Dallara built, and homologated since 2012 season, with a 2-litre, naturally aspirated engine producing about 200hp at 7400rpm, running on Hankook tyres), against an F1 car producing four times the horsepower, running on Pirelli tyres.

No two different formula cars are the same - a FFord has to be driven in a different manner to a FFord2000 for instance; they even used to share the same chassis back in the day (80's) and the difference was the 2-litre engine as against the 1600cc, and a set of wings slapped on front and rear.

I plug around in my Lola T340 Formula Ford's...I'd really love to drive a Ralt RT4, but I'm not so dumb as to think that the step up is only a small thing. Per Jem's report of Max's interview on the radio, Max doesn't share this opinion about cars, and that is naivety brought about by age and experiene, which is limited to karts and Euro-F3.

However, amongst all the possible shortfalls that he will have on the technical side, the most important of all is his ability to understand tyres. You don't learn about tyres from 20-odd races, and you don't learn about Pirelli's when you're running on Hankooks. Making tyres work is the most important part of motorsport as they are the ONLY means of transferring all that power in the engine, all that downforce in the wings, to the track and into forward motion.

You stuff up your approach to tyres, and you stuff up your lap times. And it doesn't matter how many sensors you have in your car to monitor, how many streams of telemetry you record, tyres and tyre wear are only ever properly analysed after the fact, and what you learn about that set of tyres only actually is useful for that set of tyres, which in F1, you're never going to use again. Tyres are the sole domain of the driver to monitor in real time, and even the best guys out there can overcook them, or never "switch them on".

The guys in GP2 have the advantage of running the same compound Pirelli's as F1 - those guys are learning the tyres, how to manage them, make them work for more than five laps.

Also, the GP2 guys, are racing over an hour. Euro-F3? Maximum of 35-minutes (per the regs). Even the GP2 lads talk about how different the "short" race is to the "long" race they do in terms of how much it takes out of them. The guys stepping up from GP3 also talk of the step up in fitness, strength and mental ability required to go from their 30-40min races to the hour+ races of GP2. Max is going to have to go from 35-mins up to almost two hours at some race tracks - that is a huge ask, especially the mental side. Sure, he can probably sit in the simulator for two hours and do a GP distance, but he's not got physical fatigue brought about by g-forces, heat, and the ever so soft as a pillow suspension affecting his performance. He hasn't got to make that split second decision when he's tired, or running in the rain for an hour or more...

I am not saying he doesn't have talent. He is doing very well results wise in Euro-F3. He is just not ready for F1, and it is unfair, in my opinion, to drop him in the deep end. The chances are so much higher that he will fail, and destroy any chance of ever driving in F1 again, than they are of him performing well.

I see his Dad is his manager, and I think he is doing (has done) a disservice to his son. F3 today is not what F3 of Jos' day was - it is too many rungs below F1 these days.

Personally I would have put him in GP2 alongside Sainz Jr next year, with the carrot of a seat at STR the following year. This is what I would do at the very, very least. Then he can learn the tyres, understand how the race distances affect his body, and have a barometer against arguably some very talented other drivers. It would not have been hard to put either Kvyatt or Vergne on a one year deal next year and move either one on in 2016 for Sainz or Max.

And that is the reasons behind why I think this is one experiment bound to fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, Craig, you think he is going to be an instant success in F1? What a load of bollocks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The people who have put him into an STR seat next year know a lot more about F1 and what it takes to be a successful F1 driver than we do. The truth is we know close to nothing. We have opinions, but what do we really know? Not a lot.

I say give the kid a chance. OK, he may c#ck up, but what does he have to do to c#ck up more than Maldonado? Chilton? Guttierez? Grosjean earlier on, although he seems to have grown up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but they held high praise for Bourdais to remember? Yeah his stats might be impressive but so are alot of others aswell. Could the Verstappen name given him a head start? Quite possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, an F1 simulator is not a computer game where it is all visual, the simulator will replicate all of the things which you mention, G, fatigue, suspension settings. It will not replicate heat, because that is not a problem in an F1 car. Here is a hint, the c#ckpit is open and the engine is behind the driver.

I do not see the F3 vs F1 comparison, F3 has never been close to F1, it is not close now and it never has been.

Some drivers undoubtedly need time in GP2 to acclimatise to the G forces and corner speeds of F1, or approaching F1. Maybe this guy does not?

Another by the way, GP2 does not use the same compounds as F1. Two compounds per weekend, but not the same compounds. GP2 uses the same compounds as in 2013, which F1 clearly does not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, an F1 simulator is not a computer game where it is all visual, the simulator will replicate all of the things which you mention, G, fatigue, suspension settings. It will not replicate heat, because that is not a problem in an F1 car. Here is a hint, the c#ckpit is open and the engine is behind the driver.

I do not see the F3 vs F1 comparison, F3 has never been close to F1, it is not close now and it never has been.

Some drivers undoubtedly need time in GP2 to acclimatise to the G forces and corner speeds of F1, or approaching F1. Maybe this guy does not?

Another by the way, GP2 does not use the same compounds as F1. Two compounds per weekend, but not the same compounds. GP2 uses the same compounds as in 2013, which F1 clearly does not.

Here is another hint - they go to hot places...and there is not that much movement of air IN the c#ckpit. Heat is an issue fo rthe drivers at Malaysia, China, Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, even Austin...they're sitting against radiators, without much insulation, and wearing four layers of fire proofing...heck just at the last GP Button was complaining about a hot bottom in free practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0