Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Emmcee

Closed Seaters.

48 posts in this topic

Rob smedly,Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa all want to test a closed c#ckpit car. Does anyone think this is going abit to far as to disembowelling the sport even more? Massa Beleives his incident in 2009 wouldn't have been no where as bad if these were in use at the time.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/503702/F1_c#ckpit_canopy_would_not_have_helped_Bianchi__Lowe/

Looks rediculous doesn't it? Well Redbull would have an advantage I this was the case as Adrian newey designed his ultimate formula one car in gran turismo

Based of the fan idea

maxresdefault.jpg

Here's a real one he built

Autosport-Show-2014-Review-RedBull-X2014-carwitter.jpg

Has the potential to lap Suzuka in just over a minute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's closed c#ckpit and closed wheels car!

It is far from Formula One, but some day who knows!

To me it would be to much change in short time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested to see what transparent material this closed c#ckpit would be made of that would stronger than a roll hoop.

In Massa's case, a closed c#ckpit might have helped, however it also could have just gone straight through and the outcome would have been the same. I can't remember any similar incident in F1 for as long as I have been watching it, that I remember, anyway.

With regards to Bianchi's accident, I am in agreement with Paddy Lowe, I don't think there is anything else that could have been put on an F1 car that would have helped with regards to that incident.

I think sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say freak accidents happen, in all walks of life and motor racing is inherently a dangerous sport. You just cannot eradicate all the risks., you can only try and limit them.

I thought Perez's comments were interesting when he basically said the drivers generally only lift off a little through yellows and double yellows to satisfy the 'requirement'. Maybe it's this that needs to be looked at more than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested to see what transparent material this closed c#ckpit would be made of that would stronger than a roll hoop.

In Massa's case, a closed c#ckpit might have helped, however it also could have just gone straight through and the outcome would have been the same. I can't remember any similar incident in F1 for as long as I have been watching it, that I remember, anyway.

With regards to Bianchi's accident, I am in agreement with Paddy Lowe, I don't think there is anything else that could have been put on an F1 car that would have helped with regards to that incident.

I think sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say freak accidents happen, in all walks of life and motor racing is inherently a dangerous sport. You just cannot eradicate all the risks., you can only try and limit them.

I thought Perez's comments were interesting when he basically said the drivers generally only lift off a little through yellows and double yellows to satisfy the 'requirement'. Maybe it's this that needs to be looked at more than anything else.

This.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think whenever heavy machinery is needed on the circuit to remove a car or repair a barrier, should warrant an immediate safety car. No common sense and negligence played a part in bianchi's accident. But as far as protecting him, no there is nothing that could have been done. Like I said before, I can't figure out what delayed the start if they were going to race in conditions twice as bad. Just boggles my mind and now for the FIA to supposidely take down bianchis video makes it even more transparent. They knew themsleves they stuffed up.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think whenever heavy machinery is needed on the circuit to remove a car or repair a barrier, should warrant an immediate safety car. No common sense and negligence played a part in bianchi's accident. But as far as protecting him, no there is nothing that could have been done. Like I said before, I can't figure out what delayed the start if they were going to race in conditions twice as bad. Just boggles my mind and now for the FIA to supposidely take down bianchis video makes it even more transparent. They knew themsleves they stuffed up.

This may be what indeed happens in future, but I am not sure it is the correct solution.

You are going on the theory that to delay the start was the correct one and using that as a comparison. When you get the cars back out on track and within a few laps the teams are considering going to intermediates, then it was possibly the wrong decision to delay the start.

I don't really like to say it, but it could be Bianchi that was at fault, if he ignored the double waved yellows as Perez alluded the drivers do to an extent. I hope that is not the case, but you can't rule it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You missed my point. IMO I Beleive it was fine to start the race, i didnt think so before but after watching it again, certainly could have even had a standing start IMO. But they thought it was bad, yet at the end when conditions were atrocious, they kept them out there, like wtf, where's the common sense in that? I simply Beleive bianchi couldn't see the flag due to bad visibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Closed c#ckpits are for the future, but not for Formula 1. If they were to come about, I do believe it will be for an entirely other form of Formula racing when cars are +250mph. A cover would have done nothing for Jules unless it was something like 25mm thick, at which point vision would be so altered due to curvature change and magnifcation, impurity of the acyrlic and other manufacturing faults (ever been to an underwater tunnel aqauria?). To maintain vision purity the screen could be no thicker than what you have on your modern road car, and I bet not a single screen would survive being used as a lever for lifting a 6-tonne front end loader.

Stupid knee jerk reaction from a bunch of hindsight engineers, if you ask me. In hindsight, a lot of people wouldn't have boarded the Titanic, and in hindsight neither would I have raced in pouring rain myself three weekends ago in which I spun 180-deg when in a straight line and then hit the armco at over 130kph and doing considerable damage to my orange Lola. But Sh#t happens. Some times you get to walk away like I did, albeit with a substantial repair bill, and other times you unfortunately end up like Jules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep well said mate, maybe a speed limiter once flags are out so cars a governed to a safer speed or simple, anytime machinery bar a race car is on circuit, the safety car should be deployed. The only alternative I think but doubt it will make much difference, is to make the driver sit lower in the car, in recent years especially Redbull, they like to sit there drivers quite high in the car, sebs head blocks the air hole above his head. Drivers should be made to sit lower so there heads are flush with the headrest behind them and well clear of the airbox. Other than that, there isn't much more than can be done.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You missed my point. IMO I Beleive it was fine to start the race, i didnt think so before but after watching it again, certainly could have even had a standing start IMO. But they thought it was bad, yet at the end when conditions were atrocious, they kept them out there, like wtf, where's the common sense in that? I simply Beleive bianchi couldn't see the flag due to bad visibility.

I didn't miss the point. I just don't think conditions were bad enough to stop the race before the accident. You can't rely on TV cameras to show the light correctly, they just don't have the range to do so.

Again, I don't want to speak too badly, but if Bianchi could not see double waved yellows, he should not have been out there. No other driver said they couldn't see the flags, more that they ignored them. Also, I think the fia have contradicted Massa's assertion that he was screaming for the race too be stopped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a hindsight thing, if the accident had not have happened, we would have been saying great race.

Massa was probably screaming something, but who knows what?

Seriously, though, if he believed conditions were dangerous, just pull in to the pits, remove the helmet and go home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't miss the point. I just don't think conditions were bad enough to stop the race before the accident. You can't rely on TV cameras to show the light correctly, they just don't have the range to do so.

Again, I don't want to speak too badly, but if Bianchi could not see double waved yellows, he should not have been out there. No other driver said they couldn't see the flags, more that they ignored them. Also, I think the fia have contradicted Massa's assertion that he was screaming for the race too be stopped.

I know tv doesn't show how bad it really is but mate common sense needs to prevail, I've lived over that side of the world and it gets dark very quick when these monsoons come in and I can tell on my tv that it was much darker,raining heavier and drivers saying conditions were shocking. Button said he had never driven in conditions so bad before and Massa said the race ran seven laps to long. So even if one driver complains, something has to be done, they all want to drive and will drive as much as they feel safe to do so. I can't Beleive people are calling it a freak accident. Like I mentioned before, they delay the race when conditions were alot lighter for starters but keep them out there basically at dusk. Best way to discribe it, is if your watching tv and your child brings a toy out of his room, you don't want him to mess up the place but turn a blind eye when he brings all his toys out. This inconsistancy boggles me and then the FIA said they did everything right. I personally Beleive if conditions wernt so bad bianchi would have seen the flags. FIA go on about how bianchi hit a patch of water just like Sutil but fail to mention anything about the flags. Why is that? It's because he didnt see any. I was expecting a safety car once the truck came out only to literally go "wtf" when one wasn't deployed.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know tv doesn't show how bad it really is but mate common sense needs to prevail, I've lived over that side of the world and it gets dark very quick when these monsoons come in and I can tell on my tv that it was much darker,raining heavier and drivers saying conditions were shocking. Button said he had never driven in conditions so bad before and Massa said the race ran seven laps to long. So even if one driver complains, something has to be done, they all want to drive and will drive as much as they feel safe to do so. I can't Beleive people are calling it a freak accident. Like I mentioned before, they delay the race when conditions were alot lighter for starters but keep them out there basically at dusk. Best way to discribe it, is if your watching tv and your child brings a toy out of his room, you don't want him to mess up the place but turn a blind eye when he brings all his toys out. This inconsistancy boggles me and then the FIA said they did everything right. I personally Beleive if conditions wernt so bad bianchi would have seen the flags. FIA go on about how bianchi hit a patch of water just like Sutil but fail to mention anything about the flags. Why is that? It's because he didnt see any. I was expecting a safety car once the truck came out only to literally go "wtf" when one wasn't deployed.

I am sorry, but I have no idea what that analogy means.

If something had to be done every time one F1 driver complains about the conditions, we would never have another wet race again. Drives have their own agendas and would complain every time they had an advantage. If we had listened to Prost, back in the day, I don't think an F1 car would have ever seen a wet track.

I don't believe the conditions played any part in Bianchi not seeing the flags, if indeed that had anything to do with the incident at all. If the conditions were so bad you couldn't see the flags you can be sure Massa, if not every other driver, would have told everyone by now.

The FIA are many things, however with regards to safety, I think they have always done their best for the past 20yrs, even if they haven't always got it right. I don't think they were negligent in this incident and it's rather typical of today's instant-on culture, that somebody else is always to blame. At the end of the day, if you have drivers' admitting that they only lift off slightly under yellow & double yellow conditions just to satisfy the FIA/stewards, then that's where you have to start, because they know that's not should be done under those conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah your right about the flag situation and them lifting of, that definatly needs to be looked at. As far as the drivers complaining, you have to give them the benifit of the doubt along with being investigated with "common sense" yeah you will have drivers whinging but that's when I Beleive a perminant ex driver should be appointed on the board, so they can turn to the driver and say "what you think, are conditions really that bad to drive". As for drivers complaining, they did. Massa said the race should have been stopped at lap 40, Jenson also stated that in his whole career, he has never race in conditions like that. I simply think it was to dark and visibility was shocking, bianchi goes straight of, literally straight which IMO means he didnt even slow down because of the flags, it could be because he didnt see them (which I Beleive due to visiblity) or he saw the green flag further down the hill. Either one would explain the reason he left the circuit at the speed and the straight line he did. IMO he tried to turn in like normal at normal speed and the car didnt turn in, he then aquaplaned of the circuit at race speed as he didnt shave FA speed of as he went in straight. If he didnt hit the truck at the speed he did, then I might agree, but he hit the truck at over 200kph which to me indicates, he didnt slow at all. The question I want to ask you, is did you think conditions were fine to

Race in? Just remember to, the cameras would have had to use a light when broadcasting so that alone would have made the circuit and the picture your seeing, much much lighter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cameras used a light? You mean the big orange firey one in the sky?

No broadcast camera at an outdoor event uses a light except those used for interviews and they spot light the interviewee.

What you smoking on the GC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Camera would need a light at that time of day I've seen them use them plenty if times at the Gold Coast race here when it gets dark and to top it of, the last one of these I saw was a Japanese tv station broad casting back to Japan.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you're saying they are spotlighting the track with a camera? I find this very very very very hard to believe...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not spotlighting the circuit, it helps with visibility on the camera lens when it starts getting dark. If what your saying happens, we wouldn't need any lights at Singapore now would we?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Precisely, which is why I don't think what you're saying can be true.

How do these lights work then? If not spotlighting, what is the purpose? They can't aim at the lense as that would over expose the picture. And if they are not powerful enough to spotlight, then they will be doing jack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They sit on the side of the lens, parallel with the lens itself so the side of the light is what actually lightens up the lense, your correct as a direct bulb would produce to much glare, there more or less there to light the area of which the lens with look through if you know what I mean. The picture is exactly like you mentioned about an interview but minus the flood lamps. So it will produce the same lighting effect without transferring the light anywhere but in the point of view of the camera.long story short, it's basically like tapping a flashlight on the side of your camera, but even the bulb is different, it's not a high tense bulb in the sense it blinds people.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is possible for the camera to enhance light, my own SLR sees more light than the human eye at high ISO, but a light on the side of the camera would not achieve anything unless it lit the whole track, which is unlikely.

There is a lot of difference between a light on the side of a camera and what is done at the Singapore GP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I saw and since they were only on during dusk and the enhancement you get from tv at home, it made sense that's what they were for. Plus when you looked straight on at the lens in seemed alot more shiny. But what iam trying to say is, the picture is always brightened and enhanced when displayed on tv compared to actually being there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Metal bars block vision. A full transparent canopy brings its own problems.

Perhaps a compromise could at least improve safety. That is, use the transparent material of the canopy to manufacture a partial canopy, a sort of visor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They need to be sitting lower in the car, that's about all you can do. Look at this pic of Vettel, look how exposed his head is because he sits so high.

sebastian-vettel-celebrates-race-barcelona-2011.jpg

The should make a ruling that there head must sit flush with the headrest behind them and well below the air box, sorta like this

f1-mclaren-hakkinen-ger98-inline.jpg this doesn't really portray what I mean as today's cars are higher at the airbox but you get the idea, I Beleive this is the only alternative bar a closed cabin. The only way for it to work is for a set measurement,location and height for the airbox and driver location so everyone's sitting position is equal and they build the car around that to how they like within the regulations.

Edited by WebRic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0