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Emmcee

Who's The Best In F1 Today?

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I was reading another poll and it rated Grosjean in 3rd spot? I don't know what poll it was but, I thought it was a bit odd, ummmm yeah I think it's pretty accurate as well, I would put Bottas in 5th and the Hulk in 9th, straight swap, and swap button n Raikkonen, Where would u rate Kyvat though? Since he just got the Red Bull seat, he does not get a mention, funny how a 4 time world champion only comes in 6th but, just goes to prove again that Adrian Newey won those 4 titles

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Yeah I would swap Bottas and Hulkenberg aswell as for kvyat, not a top ten yet but best of the youngest bunch of boys with the exception of Bottas.

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This years lotus will either make or break Grosjeans career as well, I agree, his not a top ten runner yet either Kyvat, oh well, let's see what happens, interested to see how the boss' boy will go too

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Yeah well Verstappen seems to have some natural pace doesn't he? Suprised me in testing but we have to wait and see.

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I don't watch it per say but I do use this website which shows you the times live and gives you an idea on whats going on, plus the site isn't to bad either.

http://m.gpupdate.net/en/

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My word, what a horrible list. Has this guy just learned to write too? So after 1 year struggling with the new regs Vettel and Kimi drops down from heroes to zeroes. Please somebody, write to this guy to give him some perspective. Better hope that Ric and Alonso wont get beaten by their respective teammates this years, cause then they'll both drop down to 11th and 12th

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Just like reeling in a big fish hey brad. Lmao so predictable. One of the most accurate lists I came accross. It is titled on today's drivers and there recent results, not drivers who succeeded a few years ago, that's why Schumi and senna arnt there.

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Do u think Ric is in the top 3 of drivers at the moment WebRic?

as per this article...

You say Vettel is overrated right, heard you said that many times of Kimi too...?

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Mate I think ricciardo is the best only behind alonso. IMO he is ahead if Hamilton and Rosberg as he was the only non merc driver to win races last year and to dominate a 4x champion, ricciardo is way up the top of the list mate.

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Mate I think ricciardo is the best only behind alonso. IMO he is ahead if Hamilton and Rosberg as he was the only non merc driver to win races last year and to dominate a 4x champion, ricciardo is way up the top of the list mate.

If you agree that Vettel is overrated, which you must based on this reply, then you must suppose that it doesn't take much of a calibre of driver to EXPOSE the average Vettel right, a phoney 4xWC? So is Ric a great driver? I don't know, he just beat an "average driver" who lucked into 4 championships with the best car on the grid nogal.

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If you agree that Vettel is overrated, which you must based on this reply, then you must suppose that it doesn't take much of a calibre of driver to EXPOSE the average Vettel right, a phoney 4xWC? So is Ric a great driver? I don't know, he just beat an "average driver" who lucked into 4 championships with the best car on the grid nodal.

True, but he was the only driver to win last year besides a Mercedes driver so that has to count for something. Plus his overtaking moves are incredible, he is so hungry to succeed.

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True, but he was the only driver to win last year besides a Mercedes driver so that has to count for something. Plus his overtaking moves are incredible, he is so hungry to succeed.

seriously WebRic? Both Vettel and Kimi has been doing just that ever since they arrived on the F1 scene, plus they both scored points fom their debut in midfield cars. Vettel has been breaking F1 records left right and centre?

I don't understand

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The fact is that a collapse in performance as we've seen from Kimi and Vettel would not have been forgiven and will not be forgiven of other drivers. Alonso, for instance, is still being harassed today because he finished 1 point behind one of his many teammates seven years ago. He has beaten all his other teammates, often by a stretch, but that one point in one truly fvckedup season is still screamed about hysterically as proof of some. Of course, those doing the harassment in Alonso's case are also the apologists for Kimi and Vettel so the pattern of delusion is clear.

Is Alonso the best today? Yes. But not because he is great or even close to great. He is the best because the quality of the field has plummeted.

Ricciardo is the only other driver that has shown the kind of results that Alonso has. Hamilton showed some of it once, during his first few races in 07 but that's long gone now. Without a car far superior to the rest of the field...

It's curious how "legends" are made. Vettel made his when he lucked out on one strange race while driving a RedBull with Toro Rosso livery. One race win did it for him. Hamilton did not even need to win to earn his stripes. He was crowned the "best F1 driver in history" three races into his first season.

Shrug.

The fact is that Ricciardo was clearly far superior to Vettel last year. Like Alonso, he owes zero to hype and, like Alonso, if he doesn't deliver in just one race, the haters will be all over him. Granted, Alonso will get it far worse but he is also better insured than Ricciardo.

Which gets you around full circle. Hamilton, Vettel, and Kimi belong to the club of better drivers and also to the club of those that can just show up and the hype will carry them. If they fail, no problem, the apologists will find an excuse or create a diversion.

On the other hand, Alonso and Ricciardo belong to the best-today club because they also belong to do-or-die club, they must excel every time, they have no choice, and meeting that uphill challenge successfully is why they are considered, by any true F1 fan, as the drivers worth watching. No excuses, no hype, just results.

I wish we had a better field. But we don't. Driver management is at fault for this. The current model is flawed and ultimately misguided. The artificial manufacture of "Schumachers" (including the original) is a marketing gimmick that, in any case, no longer pays for F1. Racing-wise, of course, it was always a disaster.

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The fact is that a collapse in performance as we've seen from Kimi and Vettel would not have been forgiven and will not be forgiven of other drivers. Alonso, for instance, is still being harassed today because he finished 1 point behind one of his many teammates seven years ago. He has beaten all his other teammates, often by a stretch, but that one point in one truly fvckedup season is still screamed about hysterically as proof of some. Of course, those doing the harassment in Alonso's case are also the apologists for Kimi and Vettel so the pattern of delusion is clear.

Is Alonso the best today? Yes. But not because he is great or even close to great. He is the best because the quality of the field has plummeted.

Ricciardo is the only other driver that has shown the kind of results that Alonso has. Hamilton showed some of it once, during his first few races in 07 but that's long gone now. Without a car far superior to the rest of the field...

It's curious how "legends" are made. Vettel made his when he lucked out on one strange race while driving a RedBull with Toro Rosso livery. One race win did it for him. Hamilton did not even need to win to earn his stripes. He was crowned the "best F1 driver in history" three races into his first season.

Shrug.

The fact is that Ricciardo was clearly far superior to Vettel last year. Like Alonso, he owes zero to hype and, like Alonso, if he doesn't deliver in just one race, the haters will be all over him. Granted, Alonso will get it far worse but he is also better insured than Ricciardo.

Which gets you around full circle. Hamilton, Vettel, and Kimi belong to the club of better drivers and also to the club of those that can just show up and the hype will carry them. If they fail, no problem, the apologists will find an excuse or create a diversion.

On the other hand, Alonso and Ricciardo belong to the best-today club because they also belong to do-or-die club, they must excel every time, they have no choice, and meeting that uphill challenge successfully is why they are considered, by any true F1 fan, as the drivers worth watching. No excuses, no hype, just results.

I wish we had a better field. But we don't. Driver management is at fault for this. The current model is flawed and ultimately misguided. The artificial manufacture of "Schumachers" (including the original) is a marketing gimmick that, in any case, no longer pays for F1. Racing-wise, of course, it was always a disaster.

There are so many inconsistencies with this post of yours that I don't even want to get into finer details. Seriously! They ALL have hype that carries them, they all make mistakes and they all get beaten by teammates at some point througout their careers. What applies to one great driver must be carried through to another. Of all of them at the current moment, Vettel is the most consistent in terms of delivering results and winning. No one in F1 has ever achieved what he has (currently), which is really remarkable.Yet he is in the class of better drivers??? How can you fathom this, are you so driven by your perception of YOUR fav drivers that it borders on straight hypocrisy???

Now I really don't understand!!!!

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seriously WebRic? Both Vettel and Kimi has been doing just that ever since they arrived on the F1 scene, plus they both scored points fom their debut in midfield cars. Vettel has been breaking F1 records left right and centre?

I don't understand

When kimi and seb won races, there was more than one car wining gp races. Kimi nor seb had world champions at teammates. Kimi did and we all know what happened there. Vettel's win at monza in 2008 was only done to the weather, he wouldn't have won if it was a dry race. It's like using this same evidence in Maldonado' defense because he won a race. Even on the circuit when Vettel and ricciardo came accross each other, Vettel couldn't hold him back let alone keep up with him,the results speak for themselves, not only that Vettel has had much more time to get used to how things work at Redbull compared to dan.

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The fact is that a collapse in performance as we've seen from Kimi and Vettel would not have been forgiven and will not be forgiven of other drivers. Alonso, for instance, is still being harassed today because he finished 1 point behind one of his many teammates seven years ago. He has beaten all his other teammates, often by a stretch, but that one point in one truly fvckedup season is still screamed about hysterically as proof of some. Of course, those doing the harassment in Alonso's case are also the apologists for Kimi and Vettel so the pattern of delusion is clear.

Is Alonso the best today? Yes. But not because he is great or even close to great. He is the best because the quality of the field has plummeted.

Ricciardo is the only other driver that has shown the kind of results that Alonso has. Hamilton showed some of it once, during his first few races in 07 but that's long gone now. Without a car far superior to the rest of the field...

It's curious how "legends" are made. Vettel made his when he lucked out on one strange race while driving a RedBull with Toro Rosso livery. One race win did it for him. Hamilton did not even need to win to earn his stripes. He was crowned the "best F1 driver in history" three races into his first season.

Shrug.

The fact is that Ricciardo was clearly far superior to Vettel last year. Like Alonso, he owes zero to hype and, like Alonso, if he doesn't deliver in just one race, the haters will be all over him. Granted, Alonso will get it far worse but he is also better insured than Ricciardo.

Which gets you around full circle. Hamilton, Vettel, and Kimi belong to the club of better drivers and also to the club of those that can just show up and the hype will carry them. If they fail, no problem, the apologists will find an excuse or create a diversion.

On the other hand, Alonso and Ricciardo belong to the best-today club because they also belong to do-or-die club, they must excel every time, they have no choice, and meeting that uphill challenge successfully is why they are considered, by any true F1 fan, as the drivers worth watching. No excuses, no hype, just results.

I wish we had a better field. But we don't. Driver management is at fault for this. The current model is flawed and ultimately misguided. The artificial manufacture of "Schumachers" (including the original) is a marketing gimmick that, in any case, no longer pays for F1. Racing-wise, of course, it was always a disaster.

Wow, very good post, you point into words in that one post what I've been trying to say for ages now. The bottom line is exactly that. If Vettel and Raikkonen were other drivers, they would have been hammered now. This is the exact treatment webber used to receive. I never understand why people never take it exactly how it's seen or how it plays out, very frustrating but alonso has been the best driver consistantly over ten years now, soon as the regs change seb falls of, this never happened to alonso, he was still on top of his game in the new regs, ricciardo hasn't lost any speed either from moving up with the new regs either, so they share very similar traits and its down to desire,will to win and just plain old race craft and talent.

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There are so many inconsistencies with this post of yours that I don't even want to get into finer details. Seriously! They ALL have hype that carries them, they all make mistakes and they all get beaten by teammates at some point througout their careers. What applies to one great driver must be carried through to another. Of all of them at the current moment, Vettel is the most consistent in terms of delivering results and winning. No one in F1 has ever achieved what he has (currently), which is really remarkable.Yet he is in the class of better drivers??? How can you fathom this, are you so driven by your perception of YOUR fav drivers that it borders on straight hypocrisy???

Now I really don't understand!!!!

Your forgetting one crucial thing to your whole argument brad and yea Vettel WAS the most most consistant in the last era of formula one. And that's what you fail to understand, this is a new era,new cars,new regs,new engines. And this is where kimi and seb has stumbled, if you are an all time great,meaning you can drive anything and win, don't you think seb and kimi would have just taken of from where they left of? Yes they should have as alonso did,Hamilton did, Rosberg did and also ricciardo. But even Hamilton and Rosberg don't fall into the list on there own, there car is so dominant it's the same as Redbull in the blown diffuser era, so in theory like "Maure" said, we have come full circle again. Ricciardo is only going to get stronger while drivers like seb and Raikkonen may only just be finding there feet now, while a couple others done that 12 months ago.

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If you really want to look at it from an obscure angle, the 2014 Redbull wasn't much better than the 2008 toro rosso. Your in awe of what Vettel did at that one wet race, yet ricciardo done it on three seperate occasions when only Mercedes powered cars were winning races,even seb couldn't do that after winning 4 straight titles. Maldonado should be an all time great if you talk like that, he held of alonso to win in Spain a few years ago and where has he gone now? Back to the bottom again. Seb and kimi have achieved alot but that was in the past era of formula one. This is formula one now and they simple dont cut it at this stage. Especially when both were dominated by there teammates so comprehensively who were driving the exact same car. Vettel would have recieved parts before ricciardo so dan was always driving an out dated Redbull compared to Vettel and his six or seven chassis replacements and yet still smoked him, what more evidence you need brad? Ricciardo was better than Vettel and alonso was better than kimi, simple as that.

@ MAURE - if your referring to 2007 were alonso fell one point short of Hamilton, that's actually incorrect. The both finished on the exact same ammount of points, lewis won the position on count back by having one more second place finish than alonso.

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Wow, very good post, you point into words in that one post what I've been trying to say for ages now. The bottom line is exactly that. If Vettel and Raikkonen were other drivers, they would have been hammered now. This is the exact treatment webber used to receive. I never understand why people never take it exactly how it's seen or how it plays out, very frustrating but alonso has been the best driver consistantly over ten years now, soon as the regs change seb falls of, this never happened to alonso, he was still on top of his game in the new regs, ricciardo hasn't lost any speed either from moving up with the new regs either, so they share very similar traits and its down to desire,will to win and just plain old race craft and talent.

Indeed.

There is a lot of heromaking and self-deceit going around... as if liking a driver, for whatever reasons, implies they must be the bee's knees. It's hilarious.

I suppose it has occur to you that there is something else regarding the Vettel, namely, that man just couldn't get away with another season like last. Someone had to leave the team, Ricciardo or him. No matter the hype (and, in this regard, he's only second to Hamilton in the entire field), it would have been impossible to ignore a second catastrophic failure like last season. Lucky for him, Ferrari is again drunk on toilet water.

Kimi has more character than Vettel and he would have endured another beating like last year's. Granted, being Alonso's teammate means that no matter how much you get pounded on the track, the English press will patiently wait for that one Friday practice out of twenty to yell "...and Alonso is again outpaced by his teammate". You have to smile, really, you do.

Anyway. Shrug.

The bottomline is that Merc has the edge again and that the stupid regulations regarding testing and development ensure this will most likely mean they won championship before the season has started. And there are those that wonder why the F1 tourists that make up the TV audiences that Ecclestone milk for cash don't stick around... it's a fvcking mistery.

I suppose the thing to do is to cheer for Rosberg just to get a fresh face up there but, let's be honest, the whole affair causes me a profound and deep somnolence.

There is the racing itself, of course. Let's see what Ricciardo & Alonso can do and, perhaps, if we get really lucky, some upstart will also join them. The old horses are already on the record and it's foolish to expect more than they've shown they can give already. Take their super-cars away and, well,...

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Yep once again I agree 100%. Seb saw Ferrari as a scape goat and honestly if Mclaren was the only option, he would have gone there to, it just so happens there's a free seat at Ferrari so he can use the "childhood dream" excuse to hide his own embarrassment. The fact of the matter is, kimi or seb have had the best cars to obtain there results. Where as alonso clawed the performance out of the Renault, which attracted more sponsors and key staff which in turn have him his two world titles and the tag of best formula one driver at this stage. As he has tried to his best to replicate his Renault years, yeah he hasn't won anymore titles but he has been well and truly up there, narrowly missing out on a third straight tiltle, took Renault to another two wins in his second stint with the team which at that time was a shade of its former self and finished 2nd in the championship for Ferrari 3 out of the 5 years he was there. So there is nothing left we haven't touched on that prooves alonso's worth. It's just now down to nit picking.

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Yep. You get it.

I was not really impressed with Alonso in 05 or 06 myself. I mean really, really impressed. It was 07 what forced me to reconsider. What he did that season took exceptional grit. In spite of everything thrown at him, Alonso was the de facto champion until the last stint, when Massa (illegally) let Kimi pass. Whenever I heard someone whine about Hamilton ending up 1 point up on Alonso in 07, I know that person is just tourist or a cheerleader but not true racing fan. The craft was there but the coin flipped wrong.

So, for me, Alonso didn't quite "deserve" the championships he actually got but he does deserve two, perhaps three, championships anyway so that evens things out.

Same for Kimi, imo. I don't think he really "deserved" 07 but he does deserve at least one, perhaps two, championships anyway so that evens things out for him too.

And, btw, we've gotten lucky with Alonso & Ricciardo. I mean as racing fans. These drivers provide something that nowadays teams don't consider most important, namely, race craft. As a whole, F1 has gone wrong, even backwards since Ecclestone took over and made the teams dependent on him for penny begging.

It's all off. The promoter cannot be the one footing the bill, He shouldn't have that kind of cash to begin with, cash that can only be obtained through extortion, anyway, and that only governments and media corporations can afford. And, for what? The teams are no longer economically independent and the top ones get the lion share, ensuring they remain the top ones while the newcomers cannot but fail. The situation breeds stagnation because what's important is to remain on the take, not to compete. Stay put, is the message, don't rock the boat and you might just get that supercar...

Driver management suffers along with all else. RBR now hires children because FIA gives them superlicenses. Bizarre? Well, that's the market the promoter can exploit so he can continue controlling team finances, that is, who gets to stay, who has to go, who wins this time around. It's all part of a show, the F1 show.

The fact is that teams should be raising their own funds and survive or fail on their own juice. It's a fvcking competition.

The promoter's role, at this level, is an anachronism. FIA should use a bidding process similar to the Olympics. Trophy price should be symbolic. Hosting cities should use the funds to build infrastructure and promote themselves to the world instead of what they do now, namely, financing fvcking opportunistic billionaires.

I'm going for ramen.

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