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Emmcee

For Those Who Think Fernando Is Average

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Another thing I don't understand is why people can't get their heads around the difference between a crappy car and an unreliable car. Kimi had the fastest car in the field at McLaren but it kept blowing itself to pieces. Alonso had a perfectly reliable car, it was just a dog due to years of his ruination of it. The driver is in no way responsible for reliability unless he drives it badly, and I haven't seen anyone in F1 accused of that.

As far as real talent goes, it takes a truly special driver to develop a car to a point where even he cant drive it. So maybe Alonso IS the best!!

Well he drove that car better than kimi did didnt he? And Ferrari would know how kimi works from the past so it's not like there bringing in someone unknown in team work. I still think kimi looks alot better now that fernando is not there, he has no one to match up against as seb is an unknown quality ATM until he drives the car in a race. So with alonso gone, kimi actually looks faster now. Optical illusion but still gives you guys false hope though and that's hilarious. That's whats gold brad.

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Well he drove that car better than kimi did didnt he? And Ferrari would know how kimi works from the past so it's not like there bringing in someone unknown in team work. I still think kimi looks alot better now that fernando is not there, he has no one to match up against as seb is an unknown quality ATM until he drives the car in a race. So with alonso gone, kimi actually looks faster now. Optical illusion but still gives you guys false hope though and that's hilarious. That's whats gold brad.

Easy, easy. The haters are delusional. Don't let yourself get dragged into their hell.

Of course Ferrari is honeymooning. They do it every pre-season. It's part of their charm. But their situation is still tricky. Aside from their many institutional problems, the need a driver showdown like no one else in the paddock. If Vettel and Kimi perform similarly (for better or for worse), it simply will imply they both remain below Ricciardo and Alonso. And no one wins from that.

The desirable outcome is that at least one of the pair shines by crushing the other. This will show that last disastrous season might have been a fluke (for the winner).

Of course, the most desirable outcome is also a btch. If Kimi crushes Vettel, then Vettel might as well retire. Even the haters won't be able to survive that one. Although I favor Kimi, I have to admit that Vettel coming on top is best for the sport. Kimi is on the way out anyway. If a four time champion comes completely apart, F1 will hurt.

The suspension of belief in F1 is already total. The shock of Vettel's utter failure still has the haters reeling. Just look at them. They can't articulate a single rational argument on any subject. A few days away from the first race of the season and all they can do is hate on a driver that is not even going to be there. That's how much they care about F1. Don't let yourself get dragged into their hell, my friend.

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Well he drove that car better than kimi did didnt he? And Ferrari would know how kimi works from the past so it's not like there bringing in someone unknown in team work. I still think kimi looks alot better now that fernando is not there, he has no one to match up against as seb is an unknown quality ATM until he drives the car in a race. So with alonso gone, kimi actually looks faster now. Optical illusion but still gives you guys false hope though and that's hilarious. That's whats gold brad.

Kimi IS fast! as always, Massa too.... it's just that no one but Alonso could drive that dog of a car due to his preferences and de facto nr driver, it hugely impacted the other driver. I'm glad all the faff is gone from Ferrari!

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to think in 5 years all those resources gone to waste and not a single championship to show, all that concentration on one driver that left them in ruins!!!

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to think in 5 years all those resources gone to waste and not a single championship to show, all that concentration on one driver that left them in ruins!!!

I doubt without alonso Ferrari wouldn't have even finished in the top three in the driver championship let alone constructors.

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Easy, easy. The haters are delusional. Don't let yourself get dragged into their hell.

Of course Ferrari is honeymooning. They do it every pre-season. It's part of their charm. But their situation is still tricky. Aside from their many institutional problems, the need a driver showdown like no one else in the paddock. If Vettel and Kimi perform similarly (for better or for worse), it simply will imply they both remain below Ricciardo and Alonso. And no one wins from that.

The desirable outcome is that at least one of the pair shines by crushing the other. This will show that last disastrous season might have been a fluke (for the winner).

Of course, the most desirable outcome is also a btch. If Kimi crushes Vettel, then Vettel might as well retire. Even the haters won't be able to survive that one. Although I favor Kimi, I have to admit that Vettel coming on top is best for the sport. Kimi is on the way out anyway. If a four time champion comes completely apart, F1 will hurt.

The suspension of belief in F1 is already total. The shock of Vettel's utter failure still has the haters reeling. Just look at them. They can't articulate a single rational argument on any subject. A few days away from the first race of the season and all they can do is hate on a driver that is not even going to be there. That's how much they care about F1. Don't let yourself get dragged into their hell, my friend.

Yeah true, but the tunnel vision is so so frustrating, it's like getting slapped in the face with a fish and still not know whats going on.

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I doubt without alonso Ferrari wouldn't have even finished in the top three in the driver championship let alone constructors.

BOTH Ferrari drivers without Alonso would have finished in the top three and won some constructors along the way!

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Yeah true, but the tunnel vision is so so frustrating, it's like getting slapped in the face with a fish and still not know whats going on.

That made me laugh.

Forget this sht and enjoy the weekend. You've looking forward to it for months. Hopefully, the wait will pay off for you.

See you on the other side.

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BOTH Ferrari drivers without Alonso would have finished in the top three and won some constructors along the way!

Yeah ok.

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Good question spiral. Atleast kimi will look much faster, alonso will must likely still finished ahead of kimi after missing this race. That's probably why he isn't racing he's like "meh, whats the point, I've beaten kimi 16 times last season, I don't need to proove anything"

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Good question spiral. Atleast kimi will look much faster, alonso will must likely still finished ahead of kimi after missing this race. That's probably why he isn't racing he's like "meh, whats the point, I've beaten kimi 16 times last season, I don't need to proove anything"

He puts Kimi a his point of reference...?

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Well yeah, kimi looks faster now in that Ferrari because alonso isn't there to compare him to. Can't compare him to seb as we haven't seen seb drive that car yet. See IMHO, kimi thrives in a really relaxed environment. Lotus was perfect for him as they saw themselves lucky to have that calibre driver in the first place so therefore gave kimi exactly what he wanted on and of the track. That was one of the key factors talked about when he decided to re join ferrari, the lack of "comfort zone" he will have and it will be the same this year as he isnt the main sole focus in the team after aquiring seb. He does much much better when he has clear "number one" status. The times he had spent at Ferrari SO FAR, haven't really made kimi look comfortable and it shows. Just my opinion though.

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Well yeah, kimi looks faster now in that Ferrari because alonso isn't there to compare him to. Can't compare him to seb as we haven't seen seb drive that car yet. See IMHO, kimi thrives in a really relaxed environment. Lotus was perfect for him as they saw themselves lucky to have that calibre driver in the first place so therefore gave kimi exactly what he wanted on and of the track. That was one of the key factors talked about when he decided to re join ferrari, the lack of "comfort zone" he will have and it will be the same this year as he isnt the main sole focus in the team after aquiring seb. He does much much better when he has clear "number one" status. The times he had spent at Ferrari SO FAR, haven't really made kimi look comfortable and it shows. Just my opinion though.

My point was that Beardfonso must think very highly of Kimi. Also, Kimi had very competitive teammates during his career? How can that be relaxed, or do you think relaxed atmosphere means less political. I agree the atmosphere must have been poison with Beardfonso at Ferrari last year, cause Beardfonso just brings chaos, mindgames and politics to a team. Kimi never ever had clear nr status like Beardfonso, the driver at the other side of the garage ALWAYS has a chance....you're now starting to suck things out of your thumb

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What I meant is he thrives in a relaxed environment with minimal pressure and free will basically. Lotus gave him so much breathing room, he could do AND say what he liked lol, we all heard those funny radio calls. But my point is, yes Ferrari would have been very political with alonso there but that's because he is so highly sought after that teams literally bend over to satisfy his needs. Weather that changed towards the end of the year and made his decision to leave easier, who knows. But kimi to me seems to thrive in conditions where he can just turn up and race. A team like Ferrari is alot more political and more serious, he knows what he is in for but I don't think he knew he would have been so far behind and I feel unless kimi can get a more relaxed feel out of Ferrari this year, it will be much the same. Now is the best time to try swing things more into his corner. If he gets beaten by seb like he did by fernando this year, it will basically end his career IMO, it's make or break for him this year. As for the story, we have to wait and see if its true.

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What I meant is he thrives in a relaxed environment with minimal pressure and free will basically. Lotus gave him so much breathing room, he could do AND say what he liked lol, we all heard those funny radio calls. But my point is, yes Ferrari would have been very political with alonso there but that's because he is so highly sought after that teams literally bend over to satisfy his needs. Weather that changed towards the end of the year and made his decision to leave easier, who knows. But kimi to me seems to thrive in conditions where he can just turn up and race. A team like Ferrari is alot more political and more serious, he knows what he is in for but I don't think he knew he would have been so far behind and I feel unless kimi can get a more relaxed feel out of Ferrari this year, it will be much the same. Now is the best time to try swing things more into his corner. If he gets beaten by seb like he did by fernando this year, it will basically end his career IMO, it's make or break for him this year. As for the story, we have to wait and see if its true.

no Webric, throughout his career he always did what he wanted to do and say, it just got published at Lotus...

there were a few instances where he clashed with RD at Mclaren because he wanted to participate in extreme sports, but he got leeway most of the time..

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They have a relaxed atmosphere because of the team dynamics at the moment, him getting along with Seb and new management etc... Thats the point he's trying to emphasise

All the poison is gone now...

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It's always happy in the beginning though isn't? There has been no races yet or any close competition yet for seb and kimi to "hide" info from each other. If they do fall out id say it would come from sebs side but that would mean kimi would have to challenge Vettel and I can't honestly see that happening. With Vettel though, I think he left because of ricciardo and can't have another season the same. He would have taken the Mclaren seat if that was the only one available. It just so happens he got a Ferrari seat and can use the "childhood dream" scenario and if he does bad again, getting used to the car and new surroundings can be used as the excuse. Seen it time and time again in the past. Kimi HAS to give Vettel a good run this season or his career is over and most certainly would be getting looked at by management.

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It's always happy in the beginning though isn't? There has been no races yet or any close competition yet for seb and kimi to "hide" info from each other. If they do fall out id say it would come from sebs side but that would mean kimi would have to challenge Vettel and I can't honestly see that happening. With Vettel though, I think he left because of ricciardo and can't have another season the same. He would have taken the Mclaren seat if that was the only one available. It just so happens he got a Ferrari seat and can use the "childhood dream" scenario and if he does bad again, getting used to the car and new surroundings can be used as the excuse. Seen it time and time again in the past. Kimi HAS to give Vettel a good run this season or his career is over and most certainly would be getting looked at by management.

Ferrari contacted Vettel, not other way around. Vettel is approaching the twilight of his career and should do very well at Ferrari. In terms of Kimi having to give Vettel a good run, he doesn't need to, he will, ...but he does' nt need to, his reputation is still intact after the development of the car by Alonso and co into a lada... (hheheheheheheheh thanks spiral.out, I find that hilarious)!!!

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You know lada's are more popular in Finland than anywhere else don't you? No? Now that's funny, so if alonso turned the ferrari into a lada, then kimi would be able to drive it no worries, wouldnt he? but anyway as for Vettel how you know they contacted Vettel and not the other way around. He was pushing to get out of Redbull and Ferrari was first priority and if that didnt work out well then he might have had a plan "b". I know and everyone knows (well should) that Vettel had to leave Redbull to atleast maintain some credibility. Yeah he won four titles but the truth of the matter is, your only as good as your last result and that's so true. What excuse other than having 100% proof that ricciardo is faster and a better driver than seb if he stayed there and got smashed again? He had to leave, simple as that. So if kimi and seb are neck and neck throughout the season, does that mean alonso is better than Vettel aswell as he smashed kimi last year?

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to think in 5 years all those resources gone to waste and not a single championship to show, all that concentration on one driver that left them in ruins!!!

Do you think another driver would've won the WDC against Seb/Red Bull in that period? If so, who? Kimi Raikkonen?

Without alonso Ferrari would've been even more of a joke than they already are (or rather were last year). Alonso's reputation is intact, not Kimi's. Kimi has a massive point to prove. If you disagree, go to the bbc sport formula 1 page where they think the same thing.

As maure pointed out, however well Seb & Kimi do in 2015 most of us will still be thinking Ricciardo & Alonso would've done even better!

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Do you think another driver would've won the WDC against Seb/Red Bull in that period? If so, who? Kimi Raikkonen?

Without alonso Ferrari would've been even more of a joke than they already are (or rather were last year). Alonso's reputation is intact, not Kimi's. Kimi has a massive point to prove. If you disagree, go to the bbc sport formula 1 page where they think the same thing.

As maure pointed out, however well Seb & Kimi do in 2015 most of us will still be thinking Ricciardo & Alonso would've done even better!

Jem, u disappoint me, if it took one year of Kimi struggling with a dog of a car suited to the other driver to completely sway you to the point where you think Kimi has to prove himself and discard all the other years of competitiveness, I have to question your knowledge of F1 drivers in general. Did you even read the links that I posted in that other thread as to the reasons why? Didn't Kimi and Massa win the constructors championship for Ferrari before the RBR domination years? They've won nothing with Alonso and the other driver in the team. NOTHING!

From his rookie year at Sauber to taking the fight in a development car to Schumie in a dominant car in 2003, to fighting for titles throughout his career, this is the assumption that you come up with.

I wonder what the comments will be if Kimi even takes the fight to the Merc drivers this year, that Alonso would've done better? After all the failures? Let's hope Ric and Alonso don't get beaten by their respective teammates, otherwise my friend, I'll have a field day. You won't hear the end of it

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