Do You Think Schumi Was Still As Good When He Came Back?

[Emmcee 0]

I ask this question as I would like to see people's responses. Me personally I thought Schumi was still as quick and as good as he ever was. But when he came back the cars were nothing like he ever drove before. Lack of testing and having to get used to using simulators hurt Michael in this era imo. You could see he still had the determination he always had and was still mega quick on raw pace. Plus the car he had was pretty bad. It wasnt until his last season before he and Mercedes were starting to make ground. Not to mention he was more than twice the age of some of the guys he was racing against and that's massive but he was still mega fit. I personally Beleive if Schumi never left and was able to spend the time learning the car better at the same pace the others did, he still would have be unstoppable. Who knows, if he came back in 2009 like he wanted to, to replace Massa, alonso would have never gone to Ferrari. Whats your opinion on this?

[spiral.out 0]

1 Modern F1 is less about the drivers skills than it used to be due to the greater technical reliance and its not just an engine on wheels anymore

2 He had many technical advantages with Ferrari including many unfair ones that other teams did not have

3 He didnt have the control in Mercedes like he did at Ferrari

4 He was old when he came back

5 When he came back he didnt have the best car

So with reference to the above conflicting statements, when he came back he was over the hill and was slow, so no he would not have dominated even had he stayed in the sport. Especially with Fernando developing the Ferrari into more of a Lada, I doubt even Michael could have saved it had he remained there as his team mate.

[Emmcee 0]

Maybe. But when you saw him on tv he still was fighting tooth and nail.

[Emmcee 0]

If Michael didnt retire Ferrari most certainly would have went in to win more titles as brawn and Byrne wouldn't have left, niether would have Jean Todt so and there the "main" ingredients along with schumi to create that Ferrari dominance. I do personally Beleive Ferrari and Schumacher would have been the ones still to beat. Schumacher and alonso as teammates would have never happened. Schumi would have made sure of it and that's what makes a great champion, you have to be greedy and take it all to succeed. He wouldn't have allowed Raikkonen either. It would have stayed Massa until schumi finally retired for a second time. I firmly Beleive if he was fit to return in 2009, he would have never gone to Mercedes, he would have retired again at ferrari with a possible 10 world titles. Alonso would have only got his Ferrari seat once Schumi would have left, Raikkonen wouldn't have even got a look in if this scenario took place and I firmly Beleive that. Then we have the possiblity of alonso winning titles straight of the bat due to the earlier success from Ferrari and Schumi. Then we would have had Schumi and Vettel fighting it out for titles. Michael might not have win them all but he most certainly would have added maybe a couple more to his 7 titles.

[Delivery_Driver 0]

I think Massa was keeping up with him in 2006 as well, but you never loose your skill, he still had what it took, he still drove that Merc to the absolute ragged edge, I think maybe his planning on some of his overtaking moves were a bit poor, but overall, he was still quick, even in Brazil 2012, he proved he still had what it took, 2012 he was in good form, he would have left Monaco in the top 3 in the world drivers points if the car was a bit more reliable so yeah mate he was still quick, not as good as JV when he came back to Sauber in 2005, but still good

[Emmcee 0]

Hahahhaha JV, you make me laugh but yeah your right. You look outside the actual results and you see the same driver we used to see, rough,fast and intimidating. That's why he kept the red helmet, just to make you sweat abit more when you see him come up from behind. Monaco 2012 qualify was one of his best laps he ever did around there IMHO. See the thing that caught Michael and it happened most noticeably to seb and kimi this year is making the transition from the last era of cars to the new ones. If you don't make the transition as quick and smooth as your rivals, you'll be forever behind. This is what I Beleive happened to schumi,kimi and seb, bad luck played there part also. Schumis was slightly different, he had 2yrs less driving experience in those chassis compared to the others.

[spiral.out 0]

Im not sure how you can say he drove the car to the ragged edge etc. Rosberg completely owned him in every aspect, and we know Hamilton is better than Rosberg, so where does that leave Schumaker. Nowhere.

Qualifying

Faster qualifying time: Rosberg 41 / Schumacher 17

Poles: Rosberg 1 / Schumacher 
0

Front rows: Rosberg 2 / Schumacher 1

Races

Wins: Rosberg 1 / Schumacher 0

Podiums: Rosberg 5 / Schumacher 1

Points finishes: Rosberg 39 / Schumacher 31

DNFs: Rosberg 7 / Schumacher 15

Best race result (inc DNFs): Rosberg 35 / Schumacher 22

Ahead in two-car finish: Rosberg 22 / Schumacher 15

Championship

Overall points: Rosberg 324 / Schumacher 197

Seasons finished higher in standings: Rosberg 3 / Schumacher 0

Highest championship placing: Rosberg 7th (2010, 2011) / Schumacher 8th (201

[Delivery_Driver 0]

The results don't tell of the bad luck that MSC had, esp in 2012, but for a guy that was in his 40's he still had the speed, and he had Nico as his team-mate, a guy half his age, yeah statistics are statistics, but u can't deny that michaels horse let him down on a number of times, so his merc career didn't have the same amount of luck than did his Ferrari career

[Emmcee 0]

Not only that, he didnt have time to get used to that spec of chassis like the other drivers did, they had two extra seasons with basically the same mold of car. Where the lack of testing meant Schumi had to learn a whole new formula one style on simulators. But as time went by, bad luck aside, get started to slowly find his feet, not to mention he was twice the age of most drivers. People don't take that into concideration. Championship and race positions don't always tell the truth, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, yes your are only as good as your last result, but so many things to concider. It's different in the "alonso vs Raikkonen" debate as we have lots of different scenarios and statistics we have come up with, so we "as a community" know abit more about that than this Schumacher question, so until we "disect" this scenario, it's hard to really say . Another thing to concider would be his mindset at the time. As life goes on, you learn different things and your out look changes. Sometimes towards the complete opposite of what you said would never happen earlier if you know what I mean. Maybe mentally he didnt want success as bad as nico did, who knows.

[spiral.out 0]

I think if you had to rate the drivers, in terms of skills, development of car ability, speed and professionalism it would be:

1. Kimi Raikkonen
   
2. Susie Wolff
   
3. Karun Chandhok
   
4. Michael Schumaker
   
5. Marco Apicella
   
6. 
   
7. Fernando Alonso
   

[Emmcee 0]

Man what are you smoking lol.

[spiral.out 0]

lol

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I think if you had to rate the drivers, in terms of skills, development of car ability, speed and professionalism it would be:

1. Kimi Raikkonen
   
2. Susie Wolff
   
3. Karun Chandhok
   
4. Michael Schumaker
   
5. Marco Apicella
   
6. 
   
7. Fernando Alonso
   

[Jem of the Shire 0]

No Schuey was not as good at all. Not enough testing etc is just an excuse and to be honest if it was a valid reason in 2010 then it isn't justified in his 2nd season back let alone his 3rd season back.

Regardless of speed (which he did sometimes show), his racecraft had gotten a lot worse, he was always crashing into other drivers.

[Emmcee 0]

Fair enough. I agree to an extent but I still think he was still capable if he kept going but that's my opinion, have to agree to disagree on this one bro. All good.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

He certainly improved in 2012 and even got a pole position (monaco, kind of) but even then Nico was still beating him most of the time. Old schuey wouldnt have been beaten by anyone.

[Emmcee 0]

Well that is true.

[Delivery_Driver 0]

Give him a break, he still did very well with competition half his age and coming back after a 3 year hiatus, I think he did very well overall as a hole, his only human at the end of the day and he was only as good as his car capabilities at the end of the day

[Emmcee 0]

That's true aswell. If he didnt have such a demand to do well, we wouldn't have noticed tbh.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Fair enough. I agree to an extent but I still think he was still capable if he kept going but that's my opinion, have to agree to disagree on this one bro. All good.

I'm with you and Delivery_Driver on this....

[Emmcee 0]

I'm with you and Delivery_Driver on this....

Wtf?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Wtf?

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah this ^

[BradSpeedMan 6]

You opened a new thread which I agree on the subject matter, then you go wtf?

I mean...

WTF????????

[Emmcee 0]

Oh I didn't know I was "delivery driver" that's what I meant lol, scroll up and have a look at what you said, all good I do that sometimes aswell.