British Grand Prix

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Kimi's had all the opportunities Seb has had, plus the advantage of already being a Ferrari driver, and he is not delivering. It's not Arrivabene's fault that this is the case.

I fail to see how Lewis got lucky, he put in one heck of an in-lap to take the lead, then later made the decision (and it was his) to pit for inters at exactly the right time.

This race was more entertaining than the last few but it was largely thanks to Williams' good start, otherwise it would've been more of the same.

We're around halfway point and Button is outscoring Alonso, just like I knew he would haha

[spiral.out 0]

Yes the writing is on the wall for Kimi. I'm actually looking forward to him leaving and maybe joining NASCAR or that other sport that races at Indianapolis or is that the same thing. You know Scott Dixon is in it racing. I could do with being interested in another form of motorsport because F1 will lose me when Kimi goes, as F1 is not interesting enough on its own anymore.

Bottas was underwhelming as I said earlier and have said for some time. Ferrari can have him, he'll be number two to Vettel. He is simply not that fast. I dont understand the infatuation with him.

The fact Hamilton has records makes me feel ill. He's a twat.

Lewis got lucky cause he was in a Mercedes. That is F1 now. Best car wins. End of story. Driver matters not.

Im glad Button is beating Alonso, as I do like him as a person.

Button is overrated.

[Emmcee 0]

I think Bottas is faster than kimi, he finished ahead of kimi in 2014 and is now ahead of kimi again in a car which isnt as good as the Ferrari as we all know.

[KoolMonkey 0]

The Williams of 2014 was a beast, so he better have beaten Kimi on 2014 because the Ferrari of that year wasn't very good at all. So really you're saying that Bottas in a very good car, beat Kimi in a very average car. That doesn't instill me with alot of confidence in Bottas to be honest. Williams should have won races in that car it was so good.

Jem, Arrivabene is not to blame for Kimi's performances. But Arrivabene loves to appoint the blame whereby other teams would actually be a team and win or lose together. They have mucked up Kimi's pit stops many times. This time Kimi made the call and it didn't work out. Thus I would have liked to have seen Arrivabene acknowledge this and go ok, Kimi didn't get the call right, but we are a team and we stick together. He's not doing that. It's him vs Kimi it seems. As though Kimi is supposed to then do his own tyre changes. Arrivabene seems too much like a guy brought in to fire a whole bunch of peolpe and then move onto the next company to downsize. He's not the right guy for the job. I'd still much rather have Matiachi on the job, or someone who considers a team to be more than just themselves at the helm.

Caesar, I think we're talking about two different things. Kimi's radio calls are one thing. I was talking about after the race, whereby if something happened that was his fault, he fronts up and admits he's made a mistake. I think that's admirable. The flip side is we get morons like Perez, GRO and Maldonado who always blame the other drivers for their screw ups. Kimi admits to his. His radio calls don't factor into that, or how he relates to his pit crew. That's more temprement or whatever you want to call it.

[deckard 0]

WDC has had the fastest car for a long time, how else do you explain Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button, Damon Hill and Jacques Villenueve winning it.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Timing. Hamilton is also in the fastest car. In the past it was more driver than car. Now it's more car than driver. Time it right and be sitting in a Brawn 2009 or Merc 2014/2015 and you're going to win Championships.

[Emmcee 0]

The Williams of 2014 was a beast, so he better have beaten Kimi on 2014 because the Ferrari of that year wasn't very good at all. So really you're saying that Bottas in a very good car, beat Kimi in a very average car. That doesn't instill me with alot of confidence in Bottas to be honest. Williams should have won races in that car it was so good.

Jem, Arrivabene is not to blame for Kimi's performances. But Arrivabene loves to appoint the blame whereby other teams would actually be a team and win or lose together. They have mucked up Kimi's pit stops many times. This time Kimi made the call and it didn't work out. Thus I would have liked to have seen Arrivabene acknowledge this and go ok, Kimi didn't get the call right, but we are a team and we stick together. He's not doing that. It's him vs Kimi it seems. As though Kimi is supposed to then do his own tyre changes. Arrivabene seems too much like a guy brought in to fire a whole bunch of peolpe and then move onto the next company to downsize. He's not the right guy for the job. I'd still much rather have Matiachi on the job, or someone who considers a team to be more than just themselves at the helm.

Caesar, I think we're talking about two different things. Kimi's radio calls are one thing. I was talking about after the race, whereby if something happened that was his fault, he fronts up and admits he's made a mistake. I think that's admirable. The flip side is we get morons like Perez, GRO and Maldonado who always blame the other drivers for their screw ups. Kimi admits to his. His radio calls don't factor into that, or how he relates to his pit crew. That's more temprement or whatever you want to call it.

Fair call, I won't bring alonso into the equation then but this years Ferrari is much better right? Yet Bottas is now ahead of kimi and felipe is right on him also. Kimi and felipe have had podiums this season, Bottas not so it looks like he is more consistant in a car not as good as the Ferrari. Yeah I agree, Williams had a race winning car last year but Ferrari have one this year so what you make out of that?

[KoolMonkey 0]

It fits with what I was saying. Williams had an absolute rocket this past weekend and Bottas is now just 1 point ahead of Kimi. How did they both get such epic starts? Makes you wonder if Pay Symonds is up to his old tricks again. I mean it worked a treat at Benetton didn't it.

I think Ferrari are doing better than they should and William are doing worse than their car is capable of. So really Bottas is under performing considering how good their car looked.

Ferrari only have a race winning car on Fridays. When it's now clear Merc have turned down their power plant. Even Vettel has uttered his suspicion this is the case.

[Emmcee 0]

I honestly think the Williams is a rocket in fast corners and I Beleive they will be quick at spa and monza. Bottas and Massa are performing aswell as the car lets them. I don't think anything fishy of there start if you suggest that you would have to look at Hulkenberg who jumped from 9th to 5th. I honestly think Williams will step it up in this back half of the season and if they do, you saw it here first lol. Mercedes isn't going to give Williams the same spec engine so I Beleive there gain is coming from there aero and chassis just suits the fast corners. Massa distroyed bottas's race IMO, of Bottas is "under performing" then kimi is really under performing. I started to believe kimi was on the end of some bad luck but seems to me that the iceman is breaking.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Kimi was doing just fine in the race. He pitted and go well ahead of Hulk. It was his decision to pit that ultimately came out as being too early. So him breaking, well not yet, in this case it was just a bad call that only hindsight can show wasn't the time or place.

Williams jumped both the Mercs. No I'm not honestly suggesting Pat has done something dodgy because Frank would never allow it. But the way both Williams shot past the Mercs it makes you wonder just what they have done. These aren't Lotus's or McLaren's, the Mercs are the fastest cars on the grid, getting creamed at the start.

[Emmcee 0]

I think both Williams just nailed it. Kimi spinning or loosing traction in 3 successive races isn't the kimi I once knew but each to there own opinion.

[Caesar 0]

It is tough time for Kimi! When team head says that you have to get better , he doesn't say it without reason! Probably telemetry data showed something that we will never find out!

Kimi said at the start of the season that atmosphere in team is much happier now!

Most of old team with Alonso is gone, there are totally new members there , so they have their own issues so solve now!

[lewywo4 0]

I fail to see how Lewis got lucky, he put in one heck of an in-lap to take the lead, then later made the decision (and it was his) to pit for inters at exactly the right time.

Your right, and it seems that Pat Symonds Williams technical chief would agree with you regarding Lewis's in-lap and taking the lead, which he described as being....." stunning."

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Mansell and Hill both came agonisingly close to winning multiple championships so I disagree strongly that they lucked in. And to say Lewis got lucky by being with Merc at the right time is ridiculous. Might as well say Vettel got lucky joining RBR at the right time, Hakkinen was lucky to be in a McLaren in 1998, u could say it about nearly every champ.

[Caesar 0]

Mansell and Hill both came agonisingly close to winning multiple championships so I disagree strongly that they lucked in. And to say Lewis got lucky by being with Merc at the right time is ridiculous. Might as well say Vettel got lucky joining RBR at the right time, Hakkinen was lucky to be in a McLaren in 1998, u could say it about nearly every champ.

All (especially Button), except Alonso!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Alonso really lucked in, he joined Renault just as they jumped in performance. (don't worry I'm not being serious).

Button didn't fluke anything, he had a very good team-mate to beat, as well as resurgent RBR, won the title with a race to spare, then showed at McLaren that he belongs at the front.

[Emmcee 0]

Alonso really lucked in, he joined Renault just as they jumped in performance. (don't worry I'm not being serious).

Button didn't fluke anything, he had a very good team-mate to beat, as well as resurgent RBR, won the title with a race to spare, then showed at McLaren that he belongs at the front.

Yeah but Vettel had 5 retirements to buttons 1 and only finished 9 points behind. As much as I hate to say it but if seb had that reliability, he would've taken the 2009 title aswell.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Re reliability again you could look at most seasons and say someone else would've won. Mansell should've won in '86 if it only hadn't been for that puncture. Schuey should've on 06. Kimi should've won '05. Button would've had even more points if the Malaysian GP hadn't been cancelled halfway through.

[Emmcee 0]

Don't get me wrong iam glad Jenson did win and yes your right buy Jenson got lucky in the second half of that season and had barrichello taken points away from seb let alone sebs retirements. 2005 is a different scenario also as kimi only had one more retirement than alonso. Yeah he was penalised abit but it didnt actually take him out the race effectivly so alonso did the job with basically the same ammount of retirements. Alonso though was handed the 2006 title and he knew it once he passed schumis strickened Ferrari at Suzuka. That is one title that honestly deserved to be won. Schumi was behind by almost 40 points in the middle of the season. That would be 100 points by today's scoring and reeled alonso in with some of his best driving I've seen.

[Caesar 0]

Don't get me wrong iam glad Jenson did win and yes your right buy Jenson got lucky in the second half of that season and had barrichello taken points away from seb let alone sebs retirements. 2005 is a different scenario also as kimi only had one more retirement than alonso. Yeah he was penalised abit but it didnt actually take him out the race effectivly so alonso did the job with basically the same ammount of retirements. Alonso though was handed the 2006 title and he knew it once he passed schumis strickened Ferrari at Suzuka. That is one title that honestly deserved to be won. Schumi was behind by almost 40 points in the middle of the season. That would be 100 points by today's scoring and reeled alonso in with some of his best driving I've seen.

I am not being crazy fan here, but i must mention Alonso's enigne blow in Monza while he was third, and suspension failure in rainy Hungary where he was winning from 14th place! So he wasn't gifted 2006 title, he was just being better!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I was also going to mention Monza '06 when schu won and Alonso retired.

And in '05 MC you're forgetting Kimi's 4 grid penalties!

[Emmcee 0]

I was also going to mention Monza '06 when schu won and Alonso retired.

And in '05 MC you're forgetting Kimi's 4 grid penalties!

No iam not, I did mention those penalties in my post.

[maure 1]

Hamilton was lucky with the timing of his pitstop and the rain but he was also the best driver of the front lot. He deserved most and got it. Good on him.

Rosberg is hanging on, which is the right thing to do when winning is not an option. But, then again, how come winning is not an option.

Botas might have done better but...

... Massa continues to be Massa, dead weight wherever he is. Besides which, Williams continues to show they are way over their heads. It's kind of sad.

Vettel never lost sight of the race and, well, there is another podium. Kudos to the disgraced king of F1.

Kimi, wft.

Alonso got a point by finishing 10th in a race of 13. Enough said.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I am not being crazy fan here, but i must mention Alonso's enigne blow in Monza while he was third, and suspension failure in rainy Hungary where he was winning from 14th place! So he wasn't gifted 2006 title, he was just being better!

How does one define a "gift"!? Let's look at 2005 shall we.

- Kimi had pole in San Marino and was leading until his driveshaft failure on lap 9. Too soon in the race to know if he would have won, but he did have pole and was leading, thus he had a very good shot. Alonso got the win instead.

- Kimi was leading the Euro GP until the very last lap when his suspension exploded. 10 points and Alonso got the win instead.

- Kimi had pole for the German GP and lead until lap 35. Again Alonso took the win.

Hypothetical territory here. Out of Kimi's 3x retirements, Alonso took the win in each situation. Out of Alonso's one retirement, Kimi took the win. Playing devil’s advocate, if Kimi had won those 3x races, he would have finished with 142 points instead of his 112 points. Now to square things up so that this also takes into account Alonso's retirement we deduct 2 points from Kimi and award him 2nd place Canada behind Alonso. That leaves Kimi with 140 points.

Alonso. He retired once in Canada whilst leading the race. His total was at 133. So add in the potential race win in Canada and he's then sitting on 143 points. But then we deduct the 3x races wins he inherited due to Kimi's retirements whilst in the lead. That's a 3x2=6 point’s deduction. Thus Alonso ends up with 137 points. Kimi finished with 9x fastest laps over the year.

Kimi takes the title hypothetically by 3 points over Alonso. I still put forth the notion that Kimi had far more to do than Alonso to take the title. 3x retirements whilst leading vs 1x retirement whilst leading.

10 place grid penalties. Qualified on pole. Got a 10 place grid penalty. Started 11th, finished 4th. The engine penalties Kimi got were pretty damaging to his titles hopes.

- In the French GP he qualified 3rd, received a 10 place grid penalty, and still finished the race in 2nd also with the fasted lap time. Could he have done one better and taken the win? All signs point to him quite possibly doing so.

- In the British GP, he qualified 2nd, received a 10 place grid penalty, and still finished the race in 3rd place. Again he got the fastest lap. I'm sure he could at last have gotten 2nd if not 1st in this race as well.

- At the Italian GP, again Kimi received another 10 place grid penalty after qualifying on pole position. He ended up 4th in the race with another fastest lap to his name. Without the 10 place grid demotion, another win was well within his grasp.

- Suzuka. I only include this to say wow, what a race. One of my all time favourites. Kimi did get caught out by the rain in qualifying, but so did Alonso who started only one position ahead of him. Thus qualifying can't be used to say where he could have ended up. He won the race!

On the flip side, I don't recall Alonso having any grid penalties during the year.

At the end of the day, all these what if's don't change the results, but maybe it might affect how people view things. Alonso was the WDC but Kimi was clearly the faster racer that year. Had only a few things gone differently and we most likely would have been a different result.

Emmcee, Kimi had 3x retirements in 2005 whilst leading the race, not two. San Marino, Euro and the German GPs.

I think Hamilton was lucky to have moved to Merc when he did. I would have really liked Schumi to have stayed another year, got some races wins, who knows maybe fought Nico for the championship and left on a high. But he put in the hard work to help build up that team, and it would have been very nice to have seen him on the top step a few more times before he retired.

Hamilton going there didn't suddenly make the Merc a winning car, because Nico wasn't winning races consistently before he arrived. It was such short period of time between Hamilton turning up and the season starting, that Hamilton's input on the car would have been minimal other than when it came to setup. The car was a winner period, Hamilton just happened to step in at the perfect time to capitalize on that. That to me is perfect timing, but just as much luck as well. Imagine if the Merc then turned into a McLaren. Timing is everything, but because you don't know how the car will be the next year, it is luck in the regard.

But it really was the culmination of Brawn's long term strategy to bring the team up the grid. Thus Hamilton or any other driver, at that point in time when he first joined Merc, would have been winning races. Well maybe not if it was the 3x stooges in GRO, Maldonado and Perez lol

Maure, I agree that Massa is dead weight. He's quick, he's ok and consistent when not in the wet, but what it shows to me really, is that Bottas is not smashing him. Bottas is hailed as the next Mika,Kimi,Vettel,Schumi all in one. I don't see it. He's got a mighty car underneath him; he should be getting better results. At the start of the year I thought Ferrari had the 2nd best car. Now I'm not so sure. I think Williams has the 2nd best car with Ferrari having the 3rd best.

Kimi . Rain always makes things unpredictable. It happens, but still a shame. It could have been a genius choice to pit for inters, but it didn't play out that way for him.

I wonder if Alonso will put up a plague in his own museum he created for his very first McLaren/Honda point! I doubt it.

[Emmcee 0]

What car is better monkey? The Ferrari or Williams? I ask this as you say Bottas has a mighty car under him and should be getting better results.