Honda Getting Free Testing.

[Emmcee 0]

Mclaren yet suffer more rediculous grid penalties for both alonso and button taking on new engines. It's sucks, but if you look at it this way, doesn't really matter where they start from so theoretically there getting heaps of "free testing" basically being able to run new engines every race testing new components, while other teams are focusing more on results. This IMO has to help them wouldn't you think? Why not use new engines every race with upgraded parts and test this and that? Your going to start last anyway. You got two drivers who can actually test new parts while others have to do it on the sim. I just think this is the approach Honda is taking and we could possibly see a massive improvement next season. Just a theory, thoughts?

[KoolMonkey 0]

Are they able to modify the engine as well and then just take a penalty? or can they only use a new engine and then take a penalty? If so, they should go all suicide mode and start making new engines for each race and keep starting from the back of the grid. Why not. I would. They can catch up so much quicker if they took that approach.

Develop, try new parts, take the penalty, goto the next race, repeat. That's the ONLY way they will make up ground quickly. Rather than fart around with both hands tied behind their backs tryign to eek out no gains whatsoever on fuels, wheel nuts, winglets. Just go all out on the engine.

[spiral.out 0]

If they arent they are retarded. My impression was they started doing so a few weeks back.

[Emmcee 0]

Are they able to modify the engine as well and then just take a penalty? or can they only use a new engine and then take a penalty? If so, they should go all suicide mode and start making new engines for each race and keep starting from the back of the grid. Why not. I would. They can catch up so much quicker if they took that approach.

Develop, try new parts, take the penalty, goto the next race, repeat. That's the ONLY way they will make up ground quickly. Rather than fart around with both hands tied behind their backs tryign to eek out no gains whatsoever on fuels, wheel nuts, winglets. Just go all out on the engine.

That's what I was thinking, is there anything in the rules that don't allow this otherwise, go all out like you said, what's to loose?

[KoolMonkey 0]

Yes a certain Charlie Whiting IS the rule!

He's already commented on the teams not adhering to the spirit of the law when it comes to grid penalities for replacing engines. But when a team gets smacked over 100 grid positions for a single race, WTF do you expect them to do Charlie?

He's the only threat really to this happening.

If I were Honda, I'd have asked for a rookie (KMag) type of driver instead of Jenson. And then have that driver take a brand new engine every race or as soon as they complete an updated one. Thus the driver will know from the start of the year, that the year is not theirs. They are a test mule basically. Then Alonso or Button in the other car can upgrade their engine only when it's a boost to their current one.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah good post bro.

[spiral.out 0]

Yeah bro

[rodders47 2]

I think they are still tied to having to use the "TOKENS" for modifications to the Power unit, so if they have none left they can't upgrade it.

What a F(*&$^K ridiculous situation. Build a new engine and not allowed to test and develop it ?? What other formula would do this ?

[Emmcee 0]

Exactly, no possible way to catch up. Even in v8 Supercars, the fords and holders have to run a richer fuel mixture to make it fairer for Mercedes and Nissan who don't have as good fuel economy. Least there trying to level the playing field.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Even horse racing has handicaps. But in F1 a 2sec lap advantage is put down to driver skills now. Absurb. Let them develop, test and race.

[rodders47 2]

Question :-

Have Red Bull have shot themselves in the foot so to say as far as Renault go ?

Would Red Bull be willing to take all the pain that McLaren are going through just to get an engine for next year ?

At least the Renault is lasting the race distance now...

[Emmcee 0]

I dare say they will have Renault power again next year. Although I did read that Honda are open to the idea of supplying redbull. And IMO they would be stupid not to. It will move them up the grid quicker than Mclaren. Who knows, maybe Honda have next years engine already and these penalties Mclaren are taking is like them testing parts for next years engine. There down like 20kph still on top end. Massa set the fastest speed recorded all season at Mexico yesterday doing 364kph through speed trap while both button and alonso could only manage 345kph and I would imagine thats along the straight in the drs zone also.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Something that isn't brought up is that Red Bull have spent millions attempting to help Renault improve their own engine. And Red Bull are still the bad guys in the press. I get a strong feeling Renault's upgrade engine was only made to ward off any potential court cases where Red Bull could quite easily prove their spent money and did everything they possibly could to help improve the situations.

Stop and think what Renault have done here. Forget Red Bull for a minute. What have Renault done to improve their engine? Have they come out and slandered Lotus for bailing on their 3 year engine supply? Nope. They only direct their pathetic attempts to justify their total lack of what seems like no progress whatsoever at Red Bull.

RBR might be stuck with a Renault next year, but the threat of these new V6 Twin Turbo engines coming into the sport in 2017 at a fraction of the cost means we the fans hopefully get some proper excitement back into the sport. How great would it be to see these cheap, simpler engines trouncing the half a billion dollar designed Mercs.

[Emmcee 0]

Good post man

[spiral.out 0]

Id like to see a control chasis and maximum downforce limits

[Emmcee 0]

Id like to see a control chasis and maximum downforce limits

Yea, this to.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

what's control chassis, like a standard chassis for everyone like in GP2? The sad thing about Honda's constant upgrades is that even after all these updates they don't appear to have gained anything. They're still the 2nd slowest car on any track which has a straight longer than 4 metres. The amount Honda must be spending, bringing all these updates, must be costing a lot and is contradicting (I forget the right word here) the whole cost-cutting aim of having grid penalties for changing parts, so they need to rethink the rules there. Why give Button a 70-place grid penalty when there are only 20 grid slots, it makes f1 look foolish

[Emmcee 0]

Indeed

[Insider 0]

I have to say that little will change for McHonda over the winter. They have had virtually a season to fix this car and are still nowhere. Clearly, Honda feel the engine may work better in a RBR chassis as opposed to the 'zero' concept MP30. So do I. Not all McLaren's problems are related to the ICE. They have just lost their Chief Engineer and that speaks volumes. I also see little point in continuing the development of the current engine spec when 2017 may herald yet another massive change in power. It may be prudent to throw in the towel. Perhaps a 2015 Ferrari lump may do the job and get them racing and sponsor-worthy again while passing along Honda problems to RBR. Until 2017 dawns, anything will do - won't it? - as long as it gets you in the points.

[spiral.out 0]

Next year is going to be just as boring as this year

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I eagerly await to see Alonso's reaction if the 2016 McHonda is once again dreadful. He's been referring to 2016 all year, but I think his glass isn't just half full, it's overflowing, and I fear we're going to see another huge Alonso meltdown. Is it really just the car insider? On the more twisty tracks the performance is better; the data shows how much time they're losing on the long straights, due to the Honda. I agree though (and alluded to this in another thread) that despite all these updates throughout the season, Honda are still no closer to the competition.

[Emmcee 0]

Maybe it's down to simply not being able to rev the engine to its maximum. I know with Honda road cars, when you get the cars with the v-tech engines, all there power is right at the end of the rev range, you have to rev the crap out of them and they sound like there going to blow, but that's where all the power in Honda engines are. Maybe the same applies here, just a theory.

[Ajay Fernando 0]

2.5 seconds over the winter is practically impossible. Alonso says it is possible because honda knows where the fault is abd i dont think the same. I feel he is desperate to be fighting at the top. If honda is able to find 1 to 1.5 seconds. That would be awesome. Atleast they would be fighting for podiums. I feel most of the fault is from the engine side and the chassis is a very good one just like how they claim it to be. Just my opinion.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

2.5 seconds over the winter is practically impossible. Alonso says it is possible because honda knows where the fault is abd i dont think the same. I feel he is desperate to be fighting at the top. If honda is able to find 1 to 1.5 seconds. That would be awesome. Atleast they would be fighting for podiums. I feel most of the fault is from the engine side and the chassis is a very good one just like how they claim it to be. Just my opinion.

Even that is far-fetched I feel. What about the other manufacturers then, Macl be in exactly the same place

[spiral.out 0]

Maybe it's down to simply not being able to rev the engine to its maximum. I know with Honda road cars, when you get the cars with the v-tech engines, all there power is right at the end of the rev range, you have to rev the crap out of them and they sound like there going to blow, but that's where all the power in Honda engines are. Maybe the same applies here, just a theory.

VTEC turbo baby