2016 Ferrari

[Sakae 0]

It is hard to believe it, but in six races to-date, Ferrari is yet to have a clean (normal) race, in which all goes as planned, and only performance counts. I am wondering what was learnt about tires/chassis after Monaco.

People must be permitted to experiment, learn, and move forward without worrying about their livelihood. If they however have guillotine hanging over their heads, innovation dries up, and progress slows down, because risk of failing is too high. Management should know that, and I hope they do.

[Emmcee 0]

You mean run a hitler type regime?

[Sakae 0]

Ok, can we have it for Canadian race then?

Ferrari takes a record number of prizes at the International Engine of the Year Awards

http://auto.ferrari.com/en_EN/news-events/news/ferraris-turbo-charged-v8-engine-year/

[Emmcee 0]

I hate how exotic sports cars run v8 engines same as when f1 did, there not muscle cars, an exotic like Ferrari should be a v10 minimum same as the f1.

[Sakae 0]

Quote of the day (world is full of fun).

Arrivabene today - arrivederci tomorrow.

For the record, I don't agree that it is as bad as optics do suggest.

[Emmcee 0]

People need to cut arrivabene some slack, this guy was thrown in the deep end to manage the most exotic Motorsport brand in the world at its highest level with no prior experience, the man is doing a super job IMO, doing way more than his resume says he can do. This is Ferrari's issue all the time sh17 hits the fan, it's never internal managements issue, it's always someone on the team. I think the internal management needs to have a good hard look at themselves for once and stop pointing the finger. Sack the bloke the starts the "pass the buck" game Ferrari is so good at playing.

[Sakae 0]

Mattiacci was thrown into deep, and lasted only 7 months.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah but he wasn't do as well as rivvi considering the experience.

[Sakae 0]

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/jock-clear-im-interview-wo-steht-ferrari-769867.html

Jock Clear in the interview with AMuS revealed, that Ferrari is having problems with tire management, and they have not found remedy. It seems that not all four tires have the same performance every time, or performance is randomly changing on the same setup in short span of time. Gap to Mercedes still exists.

[Emmcee 0]

Well if others went having the same issue as there all using the same tyres then it's a chassis issue.

[Sakae 0]

Could be chassis, but then it has not been explained why in FP3 Vettel had a competitive car with Mercedes, the same in Q1, somewhat worse in Q2, and yet worse more in Q3. Vettel was on the pole enough of times to have experience with car potential, and when he said that he could go faster, and car was capable of it, but tires weren't simply good enough, then there is something to it. The same tire gave them several different feedbacks (on the same setup).

______

Problems with tires were observed by several teams, not just Ferrari.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah but chassis issues can act the same as tyres and the the issue changes when the circuit does with rubber and temperature so it's hard to actually tell what the cause is as the tyres and chassis can act the same. It's hard to say because if it was a tyre issue you would think it would've been detected earlier, same with the chassis to if that is part of the issue so why only now is it coming to light?

[Sakae 0]

Pirelli introduced different tires for recent races, and no one had any experience with those. In Spain some upgrades did not work (said Vettel) as was expected.

In Monaco, Ferrari determined, low qualification position was an issue, which backfired in the race with loss of track position. People were blaming Vettel for not being able to overtake Massa, but this was Monaco. Slippery surface, risk of hitting wall, etc. was for real.

Last year Hamilton, despite having much faster car than Vettel, could not overtake him. DR could not overtake Hamilton this year without risking ending it all right there. It is obvious to more knowledgeable observers, that one needs a car which is much, much faster than just marginally, to move ahead in that race, or front car must commit a mistake.

I am not sure it is entirely accurate to say, that tires are the same. Car is evolving, and US tire I think was new as well. Unanswered question for Ferrari is, as Clear stated, why Vettel lost speed in Q2 and then even more so in Q3. Clear said, paraphrasing, we have 1000 sensors on the car, and know everything about everything, but tires. Known is pressure and temperature, otherwise it is a black hole for us. Mother luck could play a role, but at the moment it is an art, not science, working with Pirelli of this year.

Just checked - in Spain H-tire was new, in Monaco US-tire was new this year. For Canada they will use the same grades as in Monaco.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Mattiacci was thrown into deep, and lasted only 7 months.

I have alot of respect for Mattiacci. He had no F1 experience yet did a great job. He oversaw some massive firings and hirings too. I hope folks here agree because he wasn't just some blow in the wind type of character. What he did in his short time will affect Ferrari for years to come. I guess if that affect is bad, then people won't look at him too kindly, but I think he did as good a job as Arrivabene is doing now.

[Sakae 0]

I have alot of respect for Mattiacci. He had no F1 experience yet did a great job. He oversaw some massive firings and hirings too. I hope folks here agree because he wasn't just some blow in the wind type of character. What he did in his short time will affect Ferrari for years to come. I guess if that affect is bad, then people won't look at him too kindly, but I think he did as good a job as Arrivabene is doing now.

Agree. It has been said, in speculative terms, that Mattiacci had to leave not because of what he did or didn't do with the F1 team, but because of large strategy (to go public), and he allegedly did not fit in. I have difficulty to understand what was the problem. Hughes had a piece on Matti and Alonso relationship, which was not the best. Matti refused to be pushed around by his employee, etc., etc.

[Emmcee 0]

Pirelli introduced different tires for recent races, and no one had any experience with those. In Spain some upgrades did not work (said Vettel) as was expected.

In Monaco, Ferrari determined, low qualification position was an issue, which backfired in the race with loss of track position. People were blaming Vettel for not being able to overtake Massa, but this was Monaco. Slippery surface, risk of hitting wall, etc. was for real.

Last year Hamilton, despite having much faster car than Vettel, could not overtake him. DR could not overtake Hamilton this year without risking ending it all right there. It is obvious to more knowledgeable observers, that one needs a car which is much, much faster than just marginally, to move ahead in that race, or front car must commit a mistake.

I am not sure it is entirely accurate to say, that tires are the same. Car is evolving, and US tire I think was new as well. Unanswered question for Ferrari is, as Clear stated, why Vettel lost speed in Q2 and then even more so in Q3. Clear said, paraphrasing, we have 1000 sensors on the car, and know everything about everything, but tires. Known is pressure and temperature, otherwise it is a black hole for us. Mother luck could play a role, but at the moment it is an art, not science, working with Pirelli of this year.

Just checked - in Spain H-tire was new, in Monaco US-tire was new this year. For Canada they will use the same grades as in Monaco.

No what I meant is everyone is using the same Spec tyre. So IMO it has to be more than just tyres because everyone's chassis will behave different at certain periods of wear but what you mentioned sakae is the speed differences in both sessions and it's quite odd as they would've had new rubber to use so it's like an absolute mystery as to what it is. Because if it's a chassis issue it wouldn't be intermitant but then again if all tyres are built the same it shouldn't be intermitant either should it? Just a theory on trying to help you decode this issue. Use it while you can lol, my brain is in this mode as Ian having issues with my skyline and I can't figure it out for the life of me, neither can my mechanic.

[Sakae 0]

If I interpret Clear's words (with AMuS) in their correct context, than he is admitting, that Ferrari has only limited understanding of that issue as well.

[Emmcee 0]

With Ferrari by the looks of things slipping behind redbull now, do you think the wise thing would be to pull the pin on this years car and focus on next and try learn as much about the new regs as possible and bring only limited updates from here on out for this years car. That's what I think there best bet is tbh because I think Ferrari are going to fall further back in Canada as its a circuit redbull and Mercedes are very strong on.

[Sakae 0]

On the contrary. Plan is to fight for the top spot. (re: Arri, Vettel). No gifts to anyone by moving out of the way.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah but realistically the championship is already gone, with next year being a complete shakeup, the one who has the earliest start would benefit the most don't you think? Apparently a 2017 spec model will be ready by June so they can research the 2017 regulations on a whole for everyone so maybe they've already started. I would like to know how Ferrari became the team to be allowed to build an early style 2017 car to research for the fia. Who makes these decisions and based of what?

[Sakae 0]

Going forward, it will be not easy, but season is not over yet.

[Emmcee 0]

True but IMO and it's my opinion Iam not trying to rile you up sakae but I honestly feel Ferrari have slipped behind redbull and redbull have now emerged as Mercedes main threat. In all honesty, I think Ferrari are going to struggle to win a race this year if the trend continues.

[Sakae 0]

In one of many articles on the subject, one author quoted (paraphrasing) Webber, who has determined that DR deserved wins, because he put everything he had into his drive, yet I am thinking, if that's a condition for winning, wouldn't there be more drivers then eligible? Maybe I am missing the punch line what the secret is. Another (Australian) writer has determined, if the team would give DR a very good car, he would win WDC. Well, I am impressed; secret is out how to make a driver WDC.

On subject of RB car competitiveness, based on results to-date, I shall put any pessimistic thoughts what it means for Ferrari on hold for a few more races. Optics do suggest that Ferrari is slipping, but having taken into consideration circumstances how the season has been evolving, RB might look at the moment actually better then they are. I have no qualms they will improve further, maybe into a contender, but so will the other teams.

Ferrari is closer to Mercedes then in the past, but gap exists, we all see it, if however chassis and rubber will not overcome that deficit, well, not even Vettel can do anything about it. Just read what Alonso said about McLaren tires in Monaco. The field is pretty close in performance on circuits like Monaco, and it gets pretty confusing, whereas on other circuits some cars will pull ahead, so I wait without making any predictions. Season is 6 races young.

[Emmcee 0]

You must understand sakae that Motorsport fans in Australia are dying for an f1 title, we haven't had one since 1980. Also, Iam not being biased but IMO, Ricciardo is the fastest driver in f1 ATM that's my opinion so read that before you flip your lid sakae, may I ask you this sakae and be honest, who is performing at the highest level in formula one ATM? Who is making the most with what they have? How do they look in comparison to twelve months ago? One thing you need to see sakae is redbull were further behind Mercedes than Ferrari were and to me, it seems they have caught up and passed Ferrari because circuits like Spain where the redbull shouldn't be quick, it was. Ricciardo has a real doozy on his hands, IF Ferrari have a seat available and they want dan, does he go to Ferrari who IMO are behind redbull and IMO will continue to fall behind as I beleive something drastic has to happen for them to leap rb. Now we have seen in the past that rb aero man Adrian Newey is a wizard in finding loop holes in new regulations, he did it with Williams,mclaren and redbull, so does dan stay put going of past experiences with Newey and new regs or follow his heart even though at this stage it could possibly be a step backwards.

[Sakae 0]

In the past Vettel almost never received recognition for what he did at RB. All accolades went to Newey, so today I am not sure why it would change with DR. Mind you, acceleration of Renault is pretty good, and drivability was always excellent. It seems that DR all over sudden become the Almighty, but in my modest view, there is a lot of conjecture in relationship to his would be accomplishments, whereas drivers like Vettel they have a record to lean on, regardless how much his detractors trying to undermine it.

BTW, being the "fastest" driver is pretty meaningless in modern F1. We can discuss it why, but if you insist, and you can check for yourself, fastest lap in Monaco was put together by Hamilton (Vettel was second with -0.066 sec). DR clocked 1st sector fastest, but Vettel was fastest in sectors 2 and 3. I am not sure what it all means, but if you insist that DR is the fastest driver around, I am not impressed. Vettel and some others aren't really taking back seat to him. From my perspective far more important is from one race to another, through the season, that driver puts it consistently together, and drives at the limit of the car he sits in. Vettel pretty much is on the ball in that. I do not see any reasons for ignoring him in favor of someone else.