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Emmcee

2016 Ferrari

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But Verstappen was penalised, so how does that affect Vettel?  Vettel gained from the penalty by stepping into the podium, until he was penalised for what he did to dan. If you want consistency, Verstappen shouldn't have been punished because Hamilton wasn't and I know your not interested because what I posted proves your evidence that the FIA was against Vettel was inconclusive. Just like always, if you can't answer my question because I posted all the information, your not interested, nothing new there. I agree the FIA has been inconsistant BUT with Vettel they have given a detailed explanation as to why, more so than they usually do so I cant see the issue, they were more than fair, especially letting him of for his foul language, why so bitter? IMO Verstappen did slow down, that's how Ricciardo caught Vettel as max held him up into Ricciardo, so theoretically max lost out twice by slowing down and being penalised now if your saying he didn't slow down, then your stating dan was fast enough to catch the pair of them. Before you assuming again, Iam not being nasty or looking for a fight, Iam just pointing out inconsistencies in your defence, that is all, seems to make sense when you look at it how it is doesn't it?

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Interesting comparison by AMuS RBR v. Ferrari

Quote

The Sao Paulo route reflects the characteristics of each car. Ferrari wins on the straight, Red Bull in the corners.

The red racing cars were faster in the first and third sectors than their immediate competitors. In the first section in the thousandths range, the last one by two-tenths. Red Bull pushes it to the better engine power of the Ferrari V6. Raikkonen raced with 338.1 km / h through the light barrier before the curveVideo Superertest Lamborghini Huracán one. His team colleague with 333.1 km / h. The two Red Bulls managed 330 and 325.7 km / h.
In the middle sector with eight out of a total of 15 corners, the dark blue racing cars have the upper hand. Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo came in 36.637 and 36.774 seconds through the passages in the middle section. Vettel and Raikkonen in 36,919 and 36,973 seconds.

The Finn provides the explanation: "We have too little downforce in this section. I'm fighting a little with getting the car in tight corners right around. From time to time, I also lock the front wheels. "

But then, some very smart people already knew that much. Renault is here again performing better in doing more with less power than their competitors.

 

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This has not been a very good year for men in red or for their fans. Third place in AD, and I feel good about it, which sums up the season that has ended today quite well for me. Dream of better things to come were shuttered early, and no one knows what to expect next. It will be a long winter ahead.

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British Sky organization have published their annual rating of drivers. Seb and Kimi were rated by them in 2016 as 9th and 10th best respectively in the field of 22 drivers. The same people however rated Button as 8th and Alonso 3rd. To clarify, it is BS that a driver can chew greater performance out of the machine, than there is available to him. There is no such thing as 100% efficiency, much less 120% of that. Too many variables in such ratings, and even less reliable data to support it. Next season cannot come fast enough for me.

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Well what's the common sense in that then? That the others ARE NOT driving at 100% like some so badly think they are. Why so many variables? Because you don't agree? Never to many variables any other time is there? Sorry but you've brought the attitude upon yourself, this biased one way street jargon has to stop. Have the balls to admit mistakes and failures, ahh what's the point, to hard to answer so just ignore it hey? Trying to play the mature one after stirring the pot, yeah good on ya. Your as transparent as a window, I've learnt to take what you say with a grain of salt. Have you ever raced? Ever raced competitively? Because if you have, Iam literally blown away with some of the stuff I read. It's like reading a real life PlayStation game.

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21 hours ago, Sakae said:

British Sky organization have published their annual rating of drivers. Seb and Kimi were rated by them in 2016 as 9th and 10th best respectively in the field of 22 drivers. The same people however rated Button as 8th and Alonso 3rd. To clarify, it is BS that a driver can chew greater performance out of the machine, than there is available to him. There is no such thing as 100% efficiency, much less 120% of that. Too many variables in such ratings, and even less reliable data to support it. Next season cannot come fast enough for me.

Absolute bulls##t! Who is the moron that made these ratings. Mist be that guy who is a big fan of Alonso..Ben something

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30 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Absolute bulls##t! Who is the moron that made these ratings. Mist be that guy who is a big fan of Alonso..Ben something

I did not expected anything else from British media. However the truth to be said, several other media outlets (German AMuS including), aren't much better with their rating. Just marginally better. Looking at it, result implies, that Ferrari as a whole was (in media minds) better, than drivers delivered, which could explain driver's low positions. On my part, I do not play that game, but what I heard whole season long was from both drivers - I had no balance, tire, tires, tires....

I am not sure that anyone can say with any degree of certainty, that some other drivers could overcome the same challenge. They might, or maybe not. We will never know. Vettel had of course some encounters which some categorized as self-inflicted, others (like Prost) were talking about racing incident even if FiA decided differently. Now it's all behind, all covered by many posts on the forums, so I have no strength anymore to go back to it, because nothing will change. One can recall, that Hamilton was also complaining last season when he lost a few races, that his setup was not as good as Rosberg's, but he got away with it. Vettel and Raikonnen are perhaps judged little differently.

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Lmao you know why Vettel and raikkonen are judged differently. Look at kimi, not a word negative said about him this season, did a fantastic job and certainly was more than an equal match for Seb all season and kept bloody quiet about it to. Seb more or less did the same but with a mouth like pac man and look at the difference, not that hard to see. As for the list, how hard is it going to be to satisfy everyone? Impossible.

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Ferrari have more experience on ovals than some may think. Back in 1986 they built a moulded aluminium/carbon chassis Indy car to compete in the 1986 season. It was designed by Gustav Brunner but sadly it was never raced. Here's a wiki link on the car.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_637

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38 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Don't know if u posted anything on this Sakae, but certainly a glimmer of hope...

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/590540/Analysis_Does_Byrnes_involvement_point_to_radical_2017_Ferrari/

I've seen it, but must admit after many disappointments and promises which have not pan out well through many months, I am holding back on this one with my fingers crossed. I fear actually RBR most, because Renault is improving rapidly, and we know what Newey can do. 77 days to go when cars shall kick off testing in Spain. I am not sure that I can hold my breath for that long.  :lol:

BTW, British gambling bookies in their infinite wisdom have Wehrlein 10/1 for WDC, and Vettel 12/1. No comment about that on my side.

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Do they know something we dont about werhlein? Are those odds based on him already having a Mercedes seat? Be interesting to find that out because of its based of manor, man I want what there smoking lol.

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Bottas is going to get the seat not Pascal.

Bottas is Kovi 2.0. A non threatening easybeat who can score some points. Toto also manages Bottas. Funny that. Talk about conflict of interest, but who bothers paying attention really to what Merc do now. They say one thing, and do another. They claim they want fair racing, but then give instructions, then retract them once the driver they were supposed to be reprimanding is the only driver left in their team. No wonder Nico left. He knew it was only going to get worse. Lauda says things to him privately then is a complete opposite in the press. He was worried Nico made them look like fools... you're more than capable of that Lauda. Same with your two face a## kisser buddy Toto. Now he's brown nosing and kissing Hamilton's a##. Incredible. Back tracking and saying they never should have given team orders in the last race. Oh yeah that's right, Paddy might be leaving too. The guy who gave those orders.

For all the talk, and it's just talk and hot air to deflect, Merc are not going to get a team mate to Hamilton who can race him. Buckle up and hit the cool aid chaps, because we might be in for another 3-4 years or Merc/Hamilton dominance. The only difference being, I'm not so sure Bottas would be realiable enough to get the race wins when Hamilton has an issue.

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Merc's pitwall has 2 guys on the line with a driver during a race. RE as normal, first level, and then (it was) Lowe. No one else has access. Torger instructed Lowe to repeat the order for Hamilton in AD, when he disobeyed both, RE and Lowe first time. Lowe admitted after the race, that he disobeyed Wolff from fear looking stupid, should Hamilton refused to obey third call again.

Lowe might not be working there anymore as we speak. With regard to Hamilton, I think it is a mistake to keep him on payroll. There are many reasons for that, not least because his marketing value seems overstated, according to new reports. Not too scientific survey revealed that he is marketing himself more successfully (while spending Merc's money), than he actually markets the Mercedes brand. 

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2 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

Bottas is going to get the seat not Pascal.

Bottas is Kovi 2.0. A non threatening easybeat who can score some points. Toto also manages Bottas. Funny that. Talk about conflict of interest, but who bothers paying attention really to what Merc do now. They say one thing, and do another. They claim they want fair racing, but then give instructions, then retract them once the driver they were supposed to be reprimanding is the only driver left in their team. No wonder Nico left. He knew it was only going to get worse. Lauda says things to him privately then is a complete opposite in the press. He was worried Nico made them look like fools... you're more than capable of that Lauda. Same with your two face a## kisser buddy Toto. Now he's brown nosing and kissing Hamilton's a##. Incredible. Back tracking and saying they never should have given team orders in the last race. Oh yeah that's right, Paddy might be leaving too. The guy who gave those orders.

For all the talk, and it's just talk and hot air to deflect, Merc are not going to get a team mate to Hamilton who can race him. Buckle up and hit the cool aid chaps, because we might be in for another 3-4 years or Merc/Hamilton dominance. The only difference being, I'm not so sure Bottas would be realiable enough to get the race wins when Hamilton has an issue.

Yeah I've noticed that to, they wiped there hands of nico pretty darn quick and toto now said he should've let Lewis race in AD. Easy to say that now once everything is said and done. As for bottas though, no way is he the second kovalainen, he is so much faster and actually has some natural speed, but that's my opinion on the two. You watch though in 2017 when Mercedes isn't as dominant, there management shambles will stick out like swollen dogs ball$ And they will replace this guy with that guy and only take steps backwards instead of forwards because let's face it, they simply just hit a home run on the previous regs. If the regulations didn't change and we still had the previous formula, they wouldn't be much further ahead than they were in 2012, to many chiefs and not enough Indians in that team.

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Interesting agreement proposed for Williams to release bottas. So it's pretty clear bottas is the target and pascal is the alternative.

 

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3 hours ago, Sakae said:

Merc's pitwall has 2 guys on the line with a driver during a race. RE as normal, first level, and then (it was) Lowe. No one else has access. Torger instructed Lowe to repeat the order for Hamilton in AD, when he disobeyed both, RE and Lowe first time. Lowe admitted after the race, that he disobeyed Wolff from fear looking stupid, should Hamilton refused to obey third call again.

Lowe might not be working there anymore as we speak. With regard to Hamilton, I think it is a mistake to keep him on payroll. There are many reasons for that, not least because his marketing value seems overstated, according to new reports. Not too scientific survey revealed that he is marketing himself more successfully (while spending Merc's money), than he actually markets the Mercedes brand. 

I'm more confused how the higher uppers in Merc can't see this. The type of crowd that drools over Hamilton I speculate don't by Mercs anyway. So what gives?

Hamilton's head is so big now it's a planet. First he brutally disses Nico by saying he hasn't won anything in 18 years, then first we get Toto saying Hamilton will have no say in his team mate, then that changes something that sounds like he will. Remember this is Toto we are talking about. The same pr|ck who has been saying for the past 2 years how they ar fearful of the other teams, how they are catching up, Merc are at full capacity, they have no more room to push their engine dev etc. All utter crap. I don't know anyone who believes what he says. Him and Lauda are a perfect pair when you think about it. They both BS constantly and pretend they are right on the limit and the other teams are catching up and are so close to them. Whatever. If I can't find any enjoyment in the actual sport, then I look forward to Merc imploding. Sooner or later the Brawn magic is doing to fade and then they will have lost enough of their talent they won't know how to be at the front again.

Bottas to Merc. Merc give Williams a cheaper engine deal, also cut shorter Lowes gardening leave when he does eventually start work at Williams.

If I was Pascal I'd be fvcking over it. First turned down by FI and now it looks like Merc. But if he cuts ties with them, he'll prob be in a worse spot.

As for The Emporer, that was all smoke and mirrors. He was never in the running for the seat. But was a perfect foil to allow Merc to focus on who they Hamilton wants as the other drive.

I'm still hoping Sainz gets the ride. He'd be a total dark horse I think.

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One doesn't have to be Sun Tzu to engage in little bit of speculation, since nothing else of anything is going on right now. Hamilton IMHO got off the penalty hook once Nico resigned, however it doesn't mean, its over. I think end game is yet to be played when a new contract for Hamilton is to be renewed 2018, or even possibly sooner (end of 2017). Currently him leaving would destabilize team to undesirable levels, and WCC chase could become hopelessly out of reach. I think that Stuttgart is monitoring the situation closely, but best solution right now is to do nothing with this person. There will be another opportunity to let him know who is the boss. It might also depends how he will get alone with his new teammate.

This headline announces a stumbling block for Bottas to move.

And that's today. Ruslan accused Vettel that he blocked him last year from move to Ferrari, but now he can see how difficult actually that process is in reality.

Pascal's career with F1 might come to the end, if he fails to get that promotion, but a person who is really mad crying foul under his shower I think is actually Hülkenberg. Job would have been almost certainly his, had he failed to get a seat with Renault. Sainz would be my choice, but almost nobody but us here talks about him.

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It's just big heads all going around in circles isn't it? I totally agree about sainz being a solid pick but could you imagine redbull giving him up? Even when in reality he won't get a race seat with them, just stalling his career so to speak in spite of other teams having him and Williams seem to be doing the same with bottas. Stop his move to Ferrari and now most likely Mercedes when in reality, when are they going to win anything soon? Just stalling bottas's career as they desperately try hold onto someone they are looking like they can't afford. As already mentioned, hulkenberg can never cut a break can he? I just hope he saw something at Renault we didn't see as rumours are now going around that by 2018, they will have the fastest engine in f1. Don't know how people can see into the future like that when a new season of regs haven't even started but apparently they can. IMHO, smartest thing for Williams will be to let bottas go and take werhlein, least both drivers can progress there plans and careers to some point and stop being so spiteful when in honesty have nothing really to benefit from either situation. Just being a-holes you ask me. Imagine how werhlein feels in all this? I mean what more could've he done than what he did this season? Yet misses, FI seat and Mercedes contractually stop him from making plans with sauber only for them to go and pick someone else and then what happens to him? Back to DTM? Another talent sucked up and spat out the anus that is f1. Is Ocon that much better? Because from what I saw, he had nothing on werhlein.

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Little bit of over the shoulder stats, and a peak to the next year.

Here.

Media and number of self-appointed experts like to ignore it, but -  

Quote
  • Driver who has been overtaken least: Sebastian Vettel, one time (by Max Verstappen at the Brazilian Grand Prix, 66th lap, 5thposition)

 

From recollection, Verstappen was on better tires in wet and in visibly faster car. In that maneuver he had run Vettel off the road, but since it was Verstappen, nobody cared about Vettel. Had that been Alonso or Hamilton who were pushed out, maybe Mr. Max was taken a peg down in his arrogance.

 

Stats are interesting (re: link posted).

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You forget about Mexico sakae? Alright for Vettel to TRY and push someone of the road and someone does it to him and it's wrong? We have been here before mate and you know I think he is a hipercritical piece of work when it comes to aggressive overtakes. As for him only been overtaken once, didn't get him "best of the rest" honours after Mercedes did it? It's hard to be overtaken by force Indias,Williams and saubers when your in a Ferrari.Why didn't you mention alonso who has the most overtakes of the start? Hmm funny that. You try to glorify him when there is drivers who have had much better stats and some in less competitive cars, we know you love Vettel mate but this is what Iam talking about. Tell it how it is and not what you want others to hear, tell the truth mate is all Iam after, fair play to all.

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Vettel came back to Maranello (must be over the weekend from Switzerland where he lives), and worked on a simulator, Arrivabene said in a Christmas interview. I think Vettel other then just talent for speed has also good work ethics, that one must appreciate.

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