2016 Ferrari

[Emmcee 0]

No kimi got a title but It wasn't won from building a championship winning campaign but mainly jumping for it when the two contenders were busy with themselves. Nothing wrong with that but they can't be held the same as someone who beat the best out there and beat kimi as well. That's the difference and when the entire f1 community says the same thing, I tend to agree with that as people who have hands on experience of the sport tend to know more than some fans who are trying to extend there favourite drivers expiry date when it's already past, he is now just taking a seat up that could be used by someone who would actually challenge Seb. But that's just my opinion, I really hope he steps up but I think we would have a better chance of seeing alonso win in his mclaren than kimi beating Seb. Don't get me wrong, kimi is good but that's it, he is the same as hill,Villeneuve and all those one championship winners, he isn't a great who has won multiple times, but nowadays the term "great" needs to be re-established and alonso and Schumacher won titles in cars that weren't as dominant as Mercedes at this current point.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

No kimi got a title but It wasn't won from building a championship winning campaign but mainly jumping for it when the two contenders were busy with themselves. Nothing wrong with that but they can't be held the same as someone who beat the best out there and beat kimi as well. That's the difference and when the entire f1 community says the same thing, I tend to agree with that as people who have hands on experience of the sport tend to know more than some fans who are trying to extend there favourite drivers expiry date when it's already past, he is now just taking a seat up that could be used by someone who would actually challenge Seb. But that's just my opinion, I really hope he steps up but I think we would have a better chance of seeing alonso win in his mclaren than kimi beating Seb. Don't get me wrong, kimi is good but that's it, he is the same as hill,Villeneuve and all those one championship winners, he isn't a great who has won multiple times, but nowadays the term "great" needs to be re-established and alonso and Schumacher won titles in cars that weren't as dominant as Mercedes at this current point.

So the fact that he had he most wins that year does'nt count for anything....? He was, as you say..."given it"

[Emmcee 0]

He was and if you watched the 2007 season you would've seen that it was going to be either alonso or Hamilton to win the championship, there's no denying that fact and if you do iam sorry but you don't know what your talking about as mclaren were far superior. What happened in 2008? Massa beat him and who beat Massa? Alonso by I think even less points than kimi so I fail to see your point, yeah he is a good driver and won a title but in all honesty he has never been the main pick for a title at the start of a season, except for his fans and that's because he can't build a solid season. He will do well here and there so to speak but as for week in and week out, he is long long past his best in that reguard and to even compare kimi to alonso is just utter brain dead as everyone with the slightest bit of knowledge knows he is the best out there in terms of natural speed and race craft. But hey what do drivers who raced against them both know right?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

He was and if you watched the 2007 season you would've seen that it was going to be either alonso or Hamilton to win the championship, there's no denying that fact and if you do iam sorry but you don't know what your talking about as mclaren were far superior. What happened in 2008? Massa beat him and who beat Massa? Alonso by I think even less points than kimi so I fail to see your point, yeah he is a good driver and won a title but in all honesty he has never been the main pick for a title at the start of a season, except for his fans and that's because he can't build a solid season. He will do well here and there so to speak but as for week in and week out, he is long long past his best in that reguard and to even compare kimi to alonso is just utter brain dead as everyone with the slightest bit of knowledge knows he is the best out there in terms of natural speed and race craft. But hey what do drivers who raced against them both know right?

Just because a driver beats a teammate does'nt neccesarily mean they're better. Kimi has a tendency to "give up" when he has turned a wheel and the car is not up to scratch for the year. We've seen it with Vettel/Ric...Ric is not actually as good as Vettel but has "beaten" him.... We've seen it with the Alonso /Kimi battle with Alonso driving around problems with the car that has been created with his feedback and input and the car in a downward spiral

and if Mclaren had the superior car in 2007, yet lost the title to Kimi, does'nt it say something remarkable about Kimi?

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah Ricciardo isn't as good as Vettel, he is better IMO and if kimi "gives up" because he cant find a style that suits the car his is driving is his own problem which then becomes a motivation issue, still putting around and getting walloped by who ever ends up being your teammate is still a good way to earn a few bucks though. From 2006 onwards I've struggled to see what people see in kimi tbh, must be his attitude and him as a person because there are much better drivers who don't have half his support. What does 2007 say remarkable about kimi? That he was a dark horse? What is a dark horse? Someone who isn't supposed to win,That the two mclaren drivers were so busy taking points away from each other that they didn't even focus on kimi, that proves he wasn't mclarens focus as they firmly believed one of there drivers would win it and on paper they should've. Once alonso left, kimi had a real chance to make Ferrari "his" but a driver who literally joined the team like 5 minutes ago compared to the time kimi has spent there, comes in and stakes his claim, kimi can't do nothing but just let Seb take it as he simply doesn't have the speed. If it wasn't kimi raikkonen and didn't have the fan base and was some other driver getting the results kimi did for the last two years, he would be gone, especially getting smoked by two completely different teammates. If kimi fans want people to acknowledge his title because he actually did win it, then it has to work the same when talking about 2014/15 results as he actually got smashed and without bs excuses.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Yeah Ricciardo isn't as good as Vettel, he is better IMO and if kimi "gives up" because he cant find a style that suits the car his is driving is his own problem which then becomes a motivation issue, still putting around and getting walloped by who ever ends up being your teammate is still a good way to earn a few bucks though. From 2006 onwards I've struggled to see what people see in kimi tbh, must be his attitude and him as a person because there are much better drivers who don't have half his support. What does 2007 say remarkable about kimi? That he was a dark horse? What is a dark horse? Someone who isn't supposed to win,That the two mclaren drivers were so busy taking points away from each other that they didn't even focus on kimi, that proves he wasn't mclarens focus as they firmly believed one of there drivers would win it and on paper they should've. Once alonso left, kimi had a real chance to make Ferrari "his" but a driver who literally joined the team like 5 minutes ago compared to the time kimi has spent there, comes in and stakes his claim, kimi can't do nothing but just let Seb take it as he simply doesn't have the speed. If it wasn't kimi raikkonen and didn't have the fan base and was some other driver getting the results kimi did for the last two years, he would be gone, especially getting smoked by two completely different teammates. If kimi fans want people to acknowledge his title because he actually did win it, then it has to work the same when talking about 2014/15 results as he actually got smashed and without bs excuses.

Ric got beaten by another "rookie" in the team (for some reason Ric got called rookie at a new team when Vettel was there, so lets make same assumptsions), and before you make your excuses again on why, Alonso also got beaten by a teammate who this time around, and a equal car to him, not one affected by him....

[BradSpeedMan 6]

FYI...once again

Kimi: 1 WDC

Alonso: 0 WDC at Ferrari

Ferrari's most succesfull driver the last 10 years

[Emmcee 0]

Man I want what your smoking, can only get crap here. But seriously, is that all you can keep coming back with? Is that because what I said makes perfect sense but you just don't want to admit it? I think that's more the case, common sense always prevails.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Man I want what your smoking, can only get crap here. But seriously, is that all you can keep coming back with? Is that because what I said makes perfect sense but you just don't want to admit it? I think that's more the case, common sense always prevails.

Webric,

I went to the F1 records (well, I did'nt actually, cause I know its there) and you know what it states... let the facts speak for itself...

it says...

Kimi: 1 WDC

Alonso: 0 WDC at Ferrari

which means, Kimi is Ferrari's most succesful driver the last 10 years

[Emmcee 0]

Alonso could've been 3x champ at Ferrari if he was able to beat Seb and circumstances were different, but I can bet my bottom dollar that there is no way in hell kimi would've finished 2nd 3 times in 5 years at Ferrari, he can't even be the fastest driver there. So it were talking like this then, then circumstances played a massive, massive effect in helping kimi win his one and only title, did kimi back up his defence? No, he lost out to Massa wi lost out to Lewis, was it kimi battling Lewis? Nope, it was Felipe aswell. That proves my point. Does that mean alonso would've been champion If he was at Ferrari in 2007? If I do remember rightly, alonso helped bring Renault back to winning ways and eventually driving them to two titles and beating kimi and Michael to do it, who has kimi help bring back? Ferrari? That was Seb,Lotus? No body and who did kimi beat for his title? No one as kimi wasn't even concidered a threat as mclaren was to busy with themselves but I can bet my bottom dollar again that alonso would've been concidered a threat. If you think kimi is the most successful Ferrari driver in the last ten years, I'll let you have that as kimi fans haven't got much left at all, can't wait when alonso passes kimi for position this year. It will be bliss.

[Ajay Fernando 0]

Alonso would have been the successful driver for Ferrari if Ferrari had not messed up in 2010 at the final race of the season. Ferrari made a huge blunder calling alonso for an early pit stop which costed him the title.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

If...how..when...did'nt...

If Kimi's car didnt keep breaking down in 2005 he would've been 2xchamp. Thats if folks.

Kimi: 1 WDC

Alonso: 0 WDC at Ferrari

The records books still tell me Kimi is the most successful driver for Ferrari the last 10 years

[Emmcee 0]

If kimi didn't have that ONE more retirement than alonso in 2005 that would've been enough you rekon? Give me a break, they both suffered basically the same issues and alonso flat out beat him, alonso has more victories than raikkonen at Ferrari and yeah raikkonen had two years of but alonso had a year of in 02 or 03 and with there records, alonso still has more wins,poles,points,podiums and titles. When you count the seasons both drivers missed, alonso has that many more podiums that he would've had to finish in the top three at 17 races to pull that gap on raikkonen and like a I said, both have had time away and it adds up to raikkonen having one more season of. So 17 podiums in basically one season is pretty darn good. Kimi is finished mate, he started showing us that when grosjean started outpacing him and it's been the same reguardless what teammate ever since, saying kimi is the most succeful Ferrari driver is like saying Magnussen is the most successful mclaren driver in the past ten years, it's like comparing robin to batman, robin is good but we all know batman is better. The sooner you gave that kimi is way over the hill the better it is as we won't need to hear all these bs excuses. I still can't get over how everyone said last years car was better suited to kimi, funny that, look better suited to Vettel IMO and you guys said the same this year, what excuse is there when he gets owned again? I would cut some slack if it was just the results but it's also stupid mistakes and people blaming something else.

[spiral.out 0]

Kimi 1 vs Alonso 0

Im pretty sure 1 is more than 0

[Emmcee 0]

If it's as obvious as that, then why do we disagree on everything else?

[Ajay Fernando 0]

Alonso 2 kimi 1

2 is greater than 1 . Lol

[Emmcee 0]

That's what I thought, so are more wins,poles and podiums. Ohh and having the entire f1 community saying your the best out there is a bonus also.

[spiral.out 0]

That's what I thought, so are more wins,poles and podiums. Ohh and having the entire f1 community saying your the best out there is a bonus also.

What fantasy world are you in?

Alonso 2 kimi 1

2 is greater than 1 . Lol

Irrelevant to original post

[Emmcee 0]

What do you mean? Are you in that denile that you haven't heard just about every TV pundit be it an ex driver or not, plus current and past crop of drivers all say he is the best or you just only read and hear what you want to? What would coulthard,brundle,Hamilton,Vettel,webber just to name a few know when saying he is the best? Even Massa went as far as saying he is a more complete driver than Schumacher, pretty big statement I know but this is the respect they have for him as a racer.

Here's one for you guys

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrOOQYdVXY8

Ouch! In a 2015 mclaren, the mclaren everyone keeps nagging and bagging, what happened here?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Just admit you made a huge blunder saying Alonso is the most successful driver the last 10 years at Ferrari and making that mistake, You've run huge circles defending the hapless Alfonso samurai around this point and all you ended was back at the starting point....

Just admit and we'll move on...simple as that

[Ajay Fernando 0]

He is and Ferrari knows that.

[Emmcee 0]

Just admit you made a huge blunder saying Alonso is the most successful driver the last 10 years at Ferrari and making that mistake, You've run huge circles defending the hapless Alfonso samurai around this point and all you ended was back at the starting point....

Just admit and we'll move on...simple as that

Admit what? That you fail to see past your own biased opinion no matter how incorrect you are. All bloody raikkonen fans are the same.

[Massa 0]

The most successful Ferrari driver in the last ten years is Vettel. He did things in 2015 that Alonso could not do in 2014, and things that Räikkönen did not do in 2015.

There! No need to fight now.

But I will say a nice thing of Räikkönen: in 2007, he did something Alonso could not, and that was a beat a teammate who was very much able to beat him. It's true that in two races I can remember, Räikkönen had the aid of team orders, but then McLaren also allowed the highest qualifier to get first pick of strategy, so it's not like Alonso never had some benefit (in the opener, for example, at Melbourne, Hamilton was P2 and Alonso was P3, but Alonso, having qualified ahead, jumped back to P2 on the superior pit strategy). Even so, Massa was more than capable of beating Räikkönen (in the aggregate of their time as teammates, Massa actually scored more points). Massa won races and "stole" points from Räikkönen. But Räikkönen was able to overcome that and take a title. Alonso, on the other hand, got broken by a teammate winning races and stealing points.

In the end, I think Vettel is the most complete F1 racer. That includes on the track and off the track. He is the most well-rounded driver in what he can do, and he is the best one to build a team around. He showed a lot of character in 2014, I thought, and is the perfect driver to turn Ferrari around.

At the same time, though, I think Hamilton is the fastest. Equal cars for everyone, one lap shootout, that guy's pure speed would prevail. Alas, that's not the object of F1, and Hamilton has shortcomings in race management (and used to have some shortcomings in focus) that are a lot more noticeable when he isn't in the best car.

And then there's Alonso. Alonso is probably, for me, the purest driver. He's an artist. His racecraft is incredible. His overtakes are so methodical and clean. But he lacks the completeness of Vettel. Vettel gets frustrated in the heat of a race, as the whole field does, but knows how to turn it off and move on afterward. Alonso, it appears to this outsider, lets his frustration seep into the entire proceedings off-track, too. I've not seen Alonso respond to defeats like Vettel did to Ricciardo, and I've not seen Alonso really inspire people to join him at new teams the way the ultimate complete driver, Schumacher, could.

So, you end up with Vettel slower than Hamilton and less pure than Alonso, but better than both in the aggregate, considering an F1 driver must do more than merely drive the car.

[Emmcee 0]

Good post, but I think Vettel and alonso share very similar traits. I disagree that alonso got rattled in 2007, he was defending champ and was told he would have priority over Hamilton which ended up not being the case, that's how it all started to begin with, alonso didn't like who qualified better and got strategy selection, after all he was double defending champion. I admit alonso might not be the fastest in qualifying but it's not his one lap pace that impresses the sports fans, it's the ability to drive qualifying laps for the full distance of a GP, something Vettel nor Hamilton nor raikkonen can do, it's something Schumacher was a wizard at and alonso is the only driver since that can do the same thing. I just think timing has played a terrible role in the back end of alonso's career, just made the moves at the wrong time, but on his day and in a equal car, he is better than Hamilton,Vettel and raikkonen. Where as Vettel seems to have made the move bang on the right time which highlights his performances ten fold, not that iam taking what he has done away but in honesty i think it's true. That's the other thing people don't take into account and that's just how good the 2007 Ferrari was compared to vettels 2015 machine. In fact IMO if Schumacher didn't retire in 2006 he would've won the 07,08 and possibly the 2009 title. Raikkonens 2007 Ferrari was quite a good car, the point iam trying to make to delusional kimi fans is that he has never been a "main" championship contender from the word go with maybe the exception of 2005 but wow one season in his career where he looked like the one to beat. He has never been competitive enough for the entire season it's more like having a few good race weekends to every good race weekend we see from champion drivers of this calibre his fans hold him to. IMO Ferrari hired him simply to bring more attention and support to Ferrari to help rebuild the team, we talk about results though and I can guarantee he isn't there for that because if he was then why would Ferrari let him go in the first place when his strike rate was much much higher? Because they relised that raikkonen wasn't the front running team runner they were after and he still like that today. I loved the earlier post when someone says he "gives up", which current f1 driver who wants to win ever give up? What a crack up lmao!!!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The most successful Ferrari driver in the last ten years is Vettel. He did things in 2015 that Alonso could not do in 2014, and things that Räikkönen did not do in 2015.

There! No need to fight now.

But I will say a nice thing of Räikkönen: in 2007, he did something Alonso could not, and that was a beat a teammate who was very much able to beat him. It's true that in two races I can remember, Räikkönen had the aid of team orders, but then McLaren also allowed the highest qualifier to get first pick of strategy, so it's not like Alonso never had some benefit (in the opener, for example, at Melbourne, Hamilton was P2 and Alonso was P3, but Alonso, having qualified ahead, jumped back to P2 on the superior pit strategy). Even so, Massa was more than capable of beating Räikkönen (in the aggregate of their time as teammates, Massa actually scored more points). Massa won races and "stole" points from Räikkönen. But Räikkönen was able to overcome that and take a title. Alonso, on the other hand, got broken by a teammate winning races and stealing points.

In the end, I think Vettel is the most complete F1 racer. That includes on the track and off the track. He is the most well-rounded driver in what he can do, and he is the best one to build a team around. He showed a lot of character in 2014, I thought, and is the perfect driver to turn Ferrari around.

At the same time, though, I think Hamilton is the fastest. Equal cars for everyone, one lap shootout, that guy's pure speed would prevail. Alas, that's not the object of F1, and Hamilton has shortcomings in race management (and used to have some shortcomings in focus) that are a lot more noticeable when he isn't in the best car.

And then there's Alonso. Alonso is probably, for me, the purest driver. He's an artist. His racecraft is incredible. His overtakes are so methodical and clean. But he lacks the completeness of Vettel. Vettel gets frustrated in the heat of a race, as the whole field does, but knows how to turn it off and move on afterward. Alonso, it appears to this outsider, lets his frustration seep into the entire proceedings off-track, too. I've not seen Alonso respond to defeats like Vettel did to Ricciardo, and I've not seen Alonso really inspire people to join him at new teams the way the ultimate complete driver, Schumacher, could.

So, you end up with Vettel slower than Hamilton and less pure than Alonso, but better than both in the aggregate, considering an F1 driver must do more than merely drive the car.

Vettel neither is Ferrari's SUCCESSFUL driver the last 10 years. Come on ppl, get a grip

A succesful driver not only wins but is the one that brings the championship/s to the team, Thats how they are measured...by championships. Vettel probably WILL be Ferrari's successful driver soon, in a few years I believe

What you adequetely described are stuations and racing abilities, it does'nt classify success