2016 Ferrari

[Sakae 0]

Sarcastic, nonsensical comments aren't very helpful right now, methinks. Vettel presented his side of the incident, and added very adult like comments regarding Verstappen's escapades. That's what adults, and serious people usually do in my neck of woods. Moreover, that has nothing to do whether Vettel is or isn't infallible. Other than mud slinging, I am yet to hear a single, well thought out counter-argument which would actually address any points that Publius marshaled so well in his summation of the incident from his perspective. Such advise such as "turn your head and look around" in that situation, and in the F1 car sounds more of a joke to me, than anything driver could actually do, I am sorry.

[Emmcee 0]

Come one man he turned in on kimi when he still had time to readjust his line and still turn in again to make the corner. His attitude of late has given him this chip on his shoulder. He got away with it in China so he knew he would here to. I've never heard you admit to Vettel making an honest mistake, you always agree with him and never concider he plays both sides of the game. "No he is correct and 100% honest every time we see him" lmao give me a break. Has a bit of history turning in on people and blames them instead. Started on Turkey 2010, even if your the car in front and have the line, it's still your fault if he runs on the grass to pass you on the outside and turns across on you. China he did the same and now Belgium, he has to own up to one of them being his fault.

[Sakae 0]

As discussed n-times already on several threads, and by several commentators, I have nothing new to add.

1. Verstappen had no business trying to make the T1 on the inside while two cars were ahead of him. Focus should be on his inexperience, nevermind childish and unsafe behavior later on.

2. Vettel, being ahead of all three drivers, did his job as any racer worth his salt would do, and followed his racing line while race was on.

3. Racers aren't expected to give up the racing positions they earned, unless your name is Vettel - so much I learned last weekend.

4. FiA has a lot of explaining to do in a person of Whiting about their performance in Spa.

5. It is debatable whether Vettel hit Kimi, or he was hit by a car that had no business being there in the first place, because there was a car width space on Vettel's inside.

 

 

[Emmcee 0]

So you have never seen a car pass anyone up the inside there at spa before? If verstappen locked a wheel then you could say he came in to hot,but he didn't. Therefore he was safely making the turn and on the inside, that's not the bad part. Kimi gave him the room, what your saying is because Vettel had the "outside" line that no one can pass if there is space and can do so without hitting him? As he was turning in remember? Seb turned in with the mentality no one was there, which is fine but there was someone there so he has to take responsibility for hitting them, bet if it was Vettel on the inside and max on the outside it would still be Max's fault hey? Stop being so biased and open your eyes. If Vettel is innocent here, then webber is in Turkey 2010 hey? After all he had the line.

[Sakae 0]

Ferrari after FP2 is probably further behind than 0,4 sec. Rosberg stated that Mercedes is usually running detuned engines in FP(s) until qualifications. Red hope is now resting on possibility that they are running similar regime, which is plausible, however not confirmed.

[Emmcee 0]

Redbull are claiming there behind Ferrari here

[Sakae 0]

RB has always some excuses lately.

[Emmcee 0]

4 hours ago, Sakae said:

RB has always some excuses lately.

Not really bro when they have always been slow at monza due to the lack of hp the Renault engine gives out. Cmon man you should know that. Even when Vettel drove for them he said the same thing so it must be true sakae.

[Sakae 0]

Development restrictions imposed upon teams as a tool for cost down measures is one heck of disgrace and shame to any true blue fan of the sport. Last three years is painful to watch it all, and this weekend seems just replica of shows we saw so many times already.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

On 2016/08/31 at 6:47 AM, Emmcee said:

So you have never seen a car pass anyone up the inside there at spa before? If verstappen locked a wheel then you could say he came in to hot,but he didn't. Therefore he was safely making the turn and on the inside, that's not the bad part. Kimi gave him the room, what your saying is because Vettel had the "outside" line that no one can pass if there is space and can do so without hitting him? As he was turning in remember? Seb turned in with the mentality no one was there, which is fine but there was someone there so he has to take responsibility for hitting them, bet if it was Vettel on the inside and max on the outside it would still be Max's fault hey? Stop being so biased and open your eyes. If Vettel is innocent here, then webber is in Turkey 2010 hey? After all he had the line.

FFS, get over it!!! He should'nt have been there in the first place!!!

[Emmcee 0]

FFS use common sense and be honest mate. Just accept the truth that Vettel made another mistake. Don't accuse a REGULAR overtaking move and a good one at that, to be the excuse for just a dumb move by Vettel, who has let the frustration get the better of him, just like you have and it has clouded your judgement.

[Sakae 0]

2 hours ago, Emmcee said:

FFS use common sense and be honest mate. Just accept the truth that Vettel made another mistake. Don't accuse a REGULAR overtaking move and a good one at that, to be the excuse for just a dumb move by Vettel, who has let the frustration get the better of him, just like you have and it has clouded your judgement.

Inverse argument can be made on basis that you have reached a stage where your dislike of the person is preventing you to reach an objective judgement. Regarding Verstappen's move, and categorizing it as "regular", Publius invited you to demonstrate from history of this track and that specific location, when 3 cars went through abreast, unscathed. Don't worry about time. We will wait. You should not have problem, since you said it is "regular" move. 

[BradSpeedMan 6]

3 hours ago, Sakae said:

Inverse argument can be made on basis that you have reached a stage where your dislike of the person is preventing you to reach an objective judgement. Regarding Verstappen's move, and categorizing it as "regular", Publius invited you to demonstrate from history of this track and that specific location, when 3 cars went through abreast, unscathed. Don't worry about time. We will wait. You should not have problem, since you said it is "regular" move. 

Thats really putting it quite mildly....

[Emmcee 0]

4 hours ago, Sakae said:

Inverse argument can be made on basis that you have reached a stage where your dislike of the person is preventing you to reach an objective judgement. Regarding Verstappen's move, and categorizing it as "regular", Publius invited you to demonstrate from history of this track and that specific location, when 3 cars went through abreast, unscathed. Don't worry about time. We will wait. You should not have problem, since you said it is "regular" move. 

I never said three could go around that corner safety, it's you that is claiming I did now what makes you think Vettel is in the right when you yourself know three cars can't make it around safely and considering kimi gave verstappen the room and was already well up the inside of kimi when Seb turned in, that proves my point right there. How on earth was verstappen supposed to know Vettel would go around the outside? Same can be said he didn't see him either. Funny how you can find something from a post ages back but ignore the simplest of questions, that's how I know your biased for a start, I don't know how many times I've asked you to tell me if you would blame Vettel if positions where reversed. Miss that one did we?

[Sakae 0]

Machine translation is interesting, but scary.

[Emmcee 0]

23 hours ago, Sakae said:

Inverse argument can be made on basis that you have reached a stage where your dislike of the person is preventing you to reach an objective judgement. Regarding Verstappen's move, and categorizing it as "regular", Publius invited you to demonstrate from history of this track and that specific location, when 3 cars went through abreast, unscathed. Don't worry about time. We will wait. You should not have problem, since you said it is "regular" move. 

i don't want it to seem I having a go at you in general, that's not my intention but I can't help to notice that all you seem to post about is how good Vettel is or anything remotely related to Ferrari or Vettel. You seem to ignore certain posts you can't explain, almost like its caught you out and you've suddenly realised but won't admit.

 

[Sakae 0]

36 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

i don't want it to seem I having a go at you in general, that's not my intention but I can't help to notice that all you seem to post about is how good Vettel is or anything remotely related to Ferrari or Vettel. You seem to ignore certain posts you can't explain, almost like its caught you out and you've suddenly realised but won't admit.

 

I do not shy from discussion containing objective, and fair critique. Over time very few posters can do it, and here it is mostly Publius in that column. (Maybe Massa, but I am here short time to make my mind). Over time I've changed, and from post race having arguments with everyone, I am trying these days to avoid certain type of posts, because regardless of any arguments I could muster, no mind ever were changed, so what's the point to run around in circles. If I may add, I am not alone, and I do suspect it is also one of the factors why Lyria left the forum, angry over anti-Vettel rhetoric which exceeded whatever was bearable for her. (I was darn close to do the same). To address your proposition, no, I have not changed my mind, and I do not follow everyone on the track. RBR is outside of my interest, and I sleep well.

[Emmcee 0]

Fair enough but if you practice what you preach, you would realise by now I call it how it is, Iam not biased, well I try not to be and if what you said was true you would see on numerous occasions I have praised Vettel for certain things that he has done. That's when I feel "selective" replies are used and my comments praising certain drivers particularly Vettel go unnoticed so I say the same thing, "why bother". Goes both ways mate, you seem quite intelligent so Iam surprised you haven't noticed that so I come to the conclusion you don't want to.

[Sakae 0]

Has anyone clue what is Ecclestone insinuating? Mercedes helping (secretly) Ferrari? To do what, and why would they? Gap to P1 exists, money is in stake. Period.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

beats me, I really found that story ridiculous. I think Eccle is turning senile

[Sakae 0]

James Allison, Antonio Spagnolo and Corrado Lanzone are gone. Out with old, in with new. PU is more or less up there, but chassis...ouch.

 

Spagnolo has been hired by Williams.

[Emmcee 0]

Well they had pace in monza didn't they? And they have behind Redbull for sometime now so I agree, there engine defiantly has consistant power. But I don't agree that there chassis is quite bad, if there chassis was bad, monza defiantly the place it will expose it at the most. As you need a stable chassis to get the power down efficiently and help with the aero in the high speed corners monza has, spa is another. Bit of a funny issue at Ferrari IMO. Nothing changed on the car side, maybe there developments are being hindered by behind scenes politics as the car is still quite quick.

[Sakae 0]

I am not aware of anything at Scuderia which can lead to "behind scenes politics" right now. In fact, I worked for many years with Italians and Brits alike, and while (some) Italians could get emotional occasionally, otherwise it was fairly straight forward bunch. Never had problem with them. Some other cultural groups were totally different challenge. (Scheming, not sharing information, etc.)

[Emmcee 0]

Iam not talking about that mate. Iam saying all the press about who's going where and what not and with arrivabene and sergio,Alison and all this drama behind the scenes seems to have had a ripple effect on something as they clearly have pace.

[Sakae 0]

Alison studied aerodynamics at U of Cambridge, which makes him aero specialist, yet Mattia Binotto, as the "engine guy", managed - judging externally - to achieve with his colleagues greatest improvement on the SF16 compared to SF15. Normative regulations blocking off track development as cost down measure IMO are the great culprit here. Car is not that bad, but job is not finished, and what used to be fixed on parallel track to racing in the background, now is being discovered during races, while fans paying big bucks for seeing unfinished cars, struggling, pretending they are in contest. Add massive complexity of technology, compared to the past and with less testing, and one cannot stop wondering who is behind this "competetive" strategy. Improvement is incremental process, and it takes many, many races to recover, while people at the front aren't standing, yet at the end of that long and expensive struggle, when one thinks its over, rules change again, and new joker was inserted into a game. I bet that cumulatively RB and Renault have far more resources on the job, than Ferrari (entity of one), and one wonders how restrictions add up for them against Ferrari in terms of man-hours permitted. (Hours on development are restricted as well, not just what can be changed, but how long a team can work to have it fixed). Mercedes of course have their lead protected from competition for several years now, so there is no point to discuss that.