BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 28, 2016 Good post, but I think Vettel and alonso share very similar traits. I disagree that alonso got rattled in 2007, he was defending champ and was told he would have priority over Hamilton which ended up not being the case, that's how it all started to begin with, alonso didn't like who qualified better and got strategy selection, after all he was double defending champion. I admit alonso might not be the fastest in qualifying but it's not his one lap pace that impresses the sports fans, it's the ability to drive qualifying laps for the full distance of a GP, something Vettel nor Hamilton nor raikkonen can do, it's something Schumacher was a wizard at and alonso is the only driver since that can do the same thing. I just think timing has played a terrible role in the back end of alonso's career, just made the moves at the wrong time, but on his day and in a equal car, he is better than Hamilton,Vettel and raikkonen. Where as Vettel seems to have made the move bang on the right time which highlights his performances ten fold, not that iam taking what he has done away but in honesty i think it's true. That's the other thing people don't take into account and that's just how good the 2007 Ferrari was compared to vettels 2015 machine. In fact IMO if Schumacher didn't retire in 2006 he would've won the 07,08 and possibly the 2009 title. Raikkonens 2007 Ferrari was quite a good car, the point iam trying to make to delusional kimi fans is that he has never been a "main" championship contender from the word go with maybe the exception of 2005 but wow one season in his career where he looked like the one to beat. He has never been competitive enough for the entire season it's more like having a few good race weekends to every good race weekend we see from champion drivers of this calibre his fans hold him to. IMO Ferrari hired him simply to bring more attention and support to Ferrari to help rebuild the team, we talk about results though and I can guarantee he isn't there for that because if he was then why would Ferrari let him go in the first place when his strike rate was much much higher? Because they relised that raikkonen wasn't the front running team runner they were after and he still like that today. I loved the earlier post when someone says he "gives up", which current f1 driver who wants to win ever give up? What a crack up lmao!!! What are you talking about? Kimi was a contender in 2003 in a development car and 2012 in an underdeveloped car. In 2005 he was also the main contender So Ferrari simply hired him for attention and support...based on what results and reputation??? When did you start watching F1 mate? Kimi was sacked because of Santander sponsor money! Why do you think they brought him back when they realised Alonso can't help develop a car? and thanks for calling me delusional, it seems we need to get personal over here. This is not the first time you threw insults at fans on this site, please contain yourself and act maturely Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted February 28, 2016 Your basing your entire argument of one championship won because a team was to tired up in team politics. Everyone knows that, and the reason I say "dillusional" is because no matter what evidence, what proof, it doesn't matter. Hey what would drivers know who raced against both or where teammates to both? You would know more wouldn't you? It's totally fine to have a difference in opinion and I think some of your posts and especially the testing coverage are great but to try and force an opinion as fact when most know it's not, is wrong IMO. That's the issue I have, and giving "lee-way" to particular drivers and bagging certain others for doing the same thing due to a biased approach is wrong also, it's the inconsistency that gets to me. As for raikkonen, imo 2005 was the serious year for him but penalties robbed him of the title, not reliability but we can't use issues like that for alonso so it doesn't fit in this case for kimi either. 2012 he wasn't consistent enough across the whole season to fight for the title and that's my point, he could've won it and was leading for a longtime but it's that incinsistancy that hurts him. We saw in qualifying the last two years, that one lap pace which is his "bread and butter" he was having issues with and would compromise his results big time. He's very much like Mark webber IMO, a halfway there man. But that's all it is, just an opinion. So before you ask how long I've been watching for, trying to sound all experienced and crap, show me that you can see it for how it is and not what you want to see. Reguardless if you like a driver or not, don't use angry,hatred or whatever to impare your decision. There are a few drivers I hated over the years but I've always acknowledged there achievements and that's what a lot of kimi fans lack and have in common. Iam not saying you personally as I see you take it all in that way, I say it as a whole as 90% of kimi fans are like this. Most never had a vendetta for alonso before 2014 either, I simply just don't see the hype in kimi and that's my opinion, the last two years have proved that to me with silly mistakes in races, spinning the car, tagging drivers by doing divebomb passing attempts and loosing his qualifying edge. He still has the pace as we consistantly see fastest laps still set by him, so he is still quick but he can no longer "hook it" all up so to speak and nail a consistant weekend across a whole season ohh and of course beat his teammate. Where you hear the crap kimi got sacked because of Santander? He got sacked because they signed alonso as far back as 2008 and therefore landed the sponsor Santander and that's why he got sacked as his results went up to standard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 For day 5 of pre-season testing I hope to see new aero, better car setup, and race sim. (Sorry Ferrari guys for placing you under too much pressure). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 Wonder how true this is, it does say alonso left Ferrari and not Ferrari ditch him like all the alonso haters out there think. http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/555520/Alonso_confirms_near_HamiltonFerrari_swap_for_2015_F1/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 Several reporters tried to get to the bottom of this, and despite my close following of daily news, I've never heard Ferrari explicitly clarified the issue in public, but they talked about it enough for us to fill blanks. My understanding from a meeting between LdM and a reporter from not too long ago, it was Ferrari who were thinking about switch quite a while, began to negotiate with Vettel, and when he accepted, Alonso was told. I am not sure when that was, but all vectors are pointing to Japanese pre-race, when Marco Mattiacci told Alonso about Vettel, Alonso blew his gasket, using not very lady like language towards Marco, and stormed out -- as it was witnessed by couple of media onlookers from safe distance. Reason - strain relationship, not a team player, and poisonous atmosphere was adversely affecting number of people on the inside. I should add, when I tried to reconstruct timeline based on various interviews, which would include current TP, playing amateurish detective, I've failed. Some statements were conflicting, and timeline ended up not as straight line, but spiral and black hole. I do however believe that LdM was speaking truth, and either it was in last minute separation by mutual agreement because Ferrari wanted him out, or Alonso was pushed. One thing seems certain - he did not have viable option to stay. Red team had enough, so much was clear. Vettel for himself, I think, made the decision during summer break 2014. (About a month or two before Japanese race). Timing conflict - MA claims, that it was him who called Sabine K., and ask her to meditate with Vettel. Timing of that of course is running later than what LdM suggested was already in pipes. Funny thing, RBR was told evening by Seb, and next morning they promoted Russian; so much they "wanted" Seb to stay, which supports the theory that Vettel received really minimal support from them in 2014, and they were happy to let him go, because press was so negative about him, which was reflecting badly on the brand. Seb is however on the record that he was not angry, and has amicable relationship with RB until today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 the true story.... he mentions the failed deal swap too... right on the money there Sakae http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/ferrari-in-2014/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 Yeah it comes down to common sense and what I've been trying to say all along. They offered him a deal to 2019 but the constant "see-saw" back and forth over offers, made them look elsewhere just incase and Vettel accepted almost immidiatly and knew he had to and that's when alonso left. If anything you can say he left as he didn't want to partner Seb and have it his own way. That's what I make more out of this tbh. Then you read about Hamilton going to redbull or Ferrari, there would be that many "mock up" deals done by heaps of drivers and teams, it's just what we hear about the most we focus on. Heck at one stage wasn't even kimi in front spot for 2014 redbull seat? I think he was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 Yeah it comes down to common sense and what I've been trying to say all along. They offered him a deal to 2019 but the constant "see-saw" back and forth over offers, made them look elsewhere just incase and Vettel accepted almost immidiatly and knew he had to and that's when alonso left. If anything you can say he left as he didn't want to partner Seb and have it his own way. That's what I make more out of this tbh. Then you read about Hamilton going to redbull or Ferrari, there would be that many "mock up" deals done by heaps of drivers and teams, it's just what we hear about the most we focus on. Heck at one stage wasn't even kimi in front spot for 2014 redbull seat? I think he was. No its not the same story you been saying all along. You vehemently denied that Alonso lost out in a cat and mouse game with Ferrari, that HE made the choice to leave. He did'nt, he lost in a game of politics to end up where he is now.outplayed, outthought and outlasted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 Ohh bs, you the one saying he got "booted" and that wasn't the case, he had a choice to stay and he didn't want to, he didn't want to risk loosing number one to Vettel, kimi it didn't matter,he had the measure of him but it was Vettel that worried him. What because I didn't go into absolute detail as I felt I was banging my head against the wall, now you say I didn't say this, wtf? Your the one doing a 180 not me. This is what I've been saying all along. Do something you haven't done before and admit your wrong mate. I posted stories and everything on this "ohh you can't beleive that" "what source" "alonso got booted" crap most people didn't even know he got an extension offer to 2019 most just said he got dropped which is total bs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Welcome to anyone here other than WebRic lol. It's been a nice holiday away from these forums, but no surprise to see his A.D.D. and memory loss kick in. Still attacking Kimi supporters just because they like to remain realistic and positive at the same time. Still harping on about Ricci, and putting down Vettel. Yep it's F1 season all right! Ferrari look to have a nice car. Not sure about the white colour, but it's not ugly that's for sure. Merc worry me though. They are sandbagging as usual and clearly have more in the tank. I think during these past couple of testing seasons they have managed to not run way out in front in any of them. They know what upgrades they have. I think Ferrari are probably running truer to their intended pace. Great to see they have ditched the pull-rod suspension and gone back to what is more commonly accepted as the better option. Also awesome to see Montezemolo come out and say Alonso was demotivating the team. We knew this, and this was simply confirmation from someone who would know. And then Alonso making his own comments he tried to goto Merc. If I was Honda or McLaren I'd find it very offputting he talks about things like this. What does it matter? Because he's employed by a team earning near the most amount of money of all drivers and seems to be focused on the past. Another year like last year and he'll be finished in F1. We'll continue to be told he's still the best driver of his generation and the best on the grid. I can't see how or why. Just like the Kimi of the early 00s is gone, so is Alonso. Spiral +1 haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Oh I said g'day to you before but didn't realise I was the centre of attention again after another classic scenario of reading what you want and not everything, I didn't bring this up but like always people say I do. All this ever is is based of my opinion and that's it and yet it snowballs into this bs because people want to tell me my opinion is wrong like wtf? It's just an opinion, doesn't mean we have to agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ajay Fernando 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Emmcee, man you have to let it lie. Past is past. Alonso has been sacked is Wat everyone claims. Fine so be it. Now that he is working on a new project let's hope he puts his everything and wins a couple of races in 2017 may be fight for championship in the near future. No point arguing the same thing again and again. No one s goING to agree here in this forum. You and i are not goin to change your opinion about vettel or alonso or ricci just like they are not going to change their opinion on kimi.Future is Wat matters now So 2016 roll on !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Iam sweet mate, the only issue I have is that my opinions are wrong, if people think they are that's fine but they have to concider my opinion if they want me to concider there's, that's the only issue I have mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Sebastian has a new engine mounted on. Both units, the one Kimi drove yesterday and Seb is using today will go back on dyno to complete life cycle run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Alonso has been sacked is Wat everyone claims. Fine so be it. I am not sure if that's what everyone claims, but listening to, and reading number of interviews of people on the inside it is painfully clear, that Ferrari wanted change. Maybe a change for the sake of change of mood. Exact sequence of events I was not able to reconstruct sufficiently to arrive to a definite answer, but I think it doesn't matter, because we know this saga ended up in divorce. To prevent any misunderstanding, since I am new member here, so I will come clean - I do not like the guy. I think he is overrated, not very up and up, unpleasant, and difficult for others to be around him -- but, that is just my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Yeah sweet, I rekin he is a tool as well but IMO he possesses the best race craft and pure pace of the lot. He might not have that blistering one lap pace anymore but he certainly has pace over the length of a Grand Prix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Yeah sweet, I rekin he is a tool as well but IMO he possesses the best race craft and pure pace of the lot. He might not have that blistering one lap pace anymore but he certainly has pace over the length of a Grand Prix. Nothing wrong with Vettel's race-craft either, and we have it again and again on the books. With Alonso, in contrast, we seems to be repeating some old story of the past; I would like to however see something fresh. He overcame Kimi at Ferrari, even boasted to reporters about it, but the truth is oozing out from Maranello, how much that car was built around him, and to total detriment of his teammate. That of course did not give Alonso a pause when he was talking... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Yeah Vettel did possess a a lot of race raft but that was tonned down a it for me once Ricciardo passed in 2014 Italian GP, just totally outsmarted and out moved Vettel. But what he has achieved at Ferrari is astonishing. If you think the car was built around alonso at Ferrari which I have no doubt it was, then what was the 2015 car built around? Kimi? Wasn't Vettel that's for sure but yet Vettel made the most of it. I really hope both Ferrari's can step it up and challenge Mercedes so we at least have a fight to watch each GP this year. We haven't had a "see saw" championship battle that lasted the length of an entire season with clear competitors since I think about 2006. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Yeah Vettel did possess a a lot of race raft but that was tonned down a it for me once Ricciardo passed in 2014 Italian GP, just totally outsmarted and out moved Vettel. But what he has achieved at Ferrari is astonishing. If you think the car was built around alonso at Ferrari which I have no doubt it was, then what was the 2015 car built around? Kimi? Wasn't Vettel that's for sure but yet Vettel made the most of it. I really hope both Ferrari's can step it up and challenge Mercedes so we at least have a fight to watch each GP this year. We haven't had a "see saw" championship battle that lasted the length of an entire season with clear competitors since I think about 2006. Remember Webric, the 2015 car still had the dna of the 2014 car. Alison went on record saying Kimi could simply not drive the 2014 car....No excuses tho, Kimi should have performed better, against Alonso and Vettel. Kimi just wafers when he knows the car is not up to scratch.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Make no mistake, it's going to be difficult for Kimi tho...he really needs to perform this year as Vettel is reaching the peak of his powers. I still think Kimi has some speed in him, and now with the nice frontend should excel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Kimi no doubt still has speed as the constant fastest laps still appear but it's his qualifying he needs to get on top of. The gap to Vettel in the standings last year would've been a lot less if he could get the results from his decent qualifying performances, he gets on top of that and he should have a better season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiral.out 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Of course they sacked him, got tired of negative nancy prowling around, sulking, turning everyone against each other, moaning when nothing went the way it was supposed to, largely because of him in the first place. I mean, you just need to look at the guy to know thats how he operates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Of course they sacked him, got tired of negative nancy prowling around, sulking, turning everyone against each other, moaning when nothing went the way it was supposed to, largely because of him in the first place. I mean, you just need to look at the guy to know thats how he operates. Ahh here he is, how's it going spiral? Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree hey? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ajay Fernando 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Of course they sacked him, got tired of negative nancy prowling around, sulking, turning everyone against each other, moaning when nothing went the way it was supposed to, largely because of him in the first place. I mean, you just need to look at the guy to know thats how he operates. Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 11, 2016 UK betting side is only 20% on WDC for Vettel. Of course I am more optimistic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites