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Emmcee

2016 Ferrari

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Yeah and when Alex yoong was racing, you look at Malaysian betting and he is 2/1 to win the championship lol. No offence to any poms here but I so bloody sick of them and Lewis Hamilton "Lewis could be the best ever" pfft yeah right "he is as dominant as Schumacher" really? if that's the case. Then Mark Webber is the best driver ever lol. It's one thing to support a driver but to be so far up the a$$ that any insult is like insulting your wife, then there's an issue, no amount of common sense can prevail over that crush, your just wasting your time.

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Yeah and when Alex yoong was racing, you look at Malaysian betting and he is 2/1 to win the championship lol. No offence to any poms here but I so bloody sick of them and Lewis Hamilton "Lewis could be the best ever" pfft yeah right "he is as dominant as Schumacher" really? if that's the case. Then Mark Webber is the best driver ever lol. It's one thing to support a driver but to be so far up the a$$ that any insult is like insulting your wife, then there's an issue, no amount of common sense can prevail over that crush, your just wasting your time.

Err, I'm a pom and for the record, I can't stand Hamilton, I'd rather anyone but him wins!!!

I want Vettel to win the championship, I think it's going to be tough this year but he made a good start to his Ferrari career last year. I am hoping this years car is a contender, if it is and Seb is comfy with it, he'll do well and could pull a few surprises as well hopefully.

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Most of them do carry on about Lewis,half my family is Pom and you should see the love there, gee whizz, they buy into the whole black minority thing he does to.

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Perusing various website to probe general mood before a season kick off, I must say there is a lot of open hatred towards Sebastian Vettel on various English forums. Why's that? Defamation levels of his name, his achievements and abilities seems borderless. Last time I came across something like that was during Schumacher years at Ferrari. Some are even predicting him being let go for 2017 (due to some better choices on the grid). Wow!

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I don't know what better choices, a clone of early Schumacher or a clone of ayrton because that's all that will be better. Vettel lost a lot of fans and support over the whole webber and redbull issue, I know Mark was just as much to blame but people were looking for something to rag on as his performance was flawless just about each time out, so when any incident did happen it was highlighted massively. Schumacher was asked the question once as to why people dislike him and contact he has made and he simply said "it's because I am racing at the front, if this happened mid pack or at the back, no one would care" and that's so true. Seb went beyond what needed to be done when he shafted mark webber but all these great drivers are selfish, you don't win 7 world tiles and 91gps if your not selfish or 4 titles when counting Seb.

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I don't know what better choices, a clone of early Schumacher or a clone of ayrton because that's all that will be better. Vettel lost a lot of fans and support over the whole webber and redbull issue, I know Mark was just as much to blame but people were looking for something to rag on as his performance was flawless just about each time out, so when any incident did happen it was highlighted massively. Schumacher was asked the question once as to why people dislike him and contact he has made and he simply said "it's because I am racing at the front, if this happened mid pack or at the back, no one would care" and that's so true. Seb went beyond what needed to be done when he shafted mark webber but all these great drivers are selfish, you don't win 7 world tiles and 91gps if your not selfish or 4 titles when counting Seb.

Fair point, but MW knows who drew first blood in that story. We should note that DR never had such issue with Vettel, and I doubt that Seb suddenly changed. He is who is, and if you don't start war, then you don't have a war. The same cannot be said with Hamilton, and he will seek conflict as part of his fabric.

If I may add pinch of my own theory why MS had some issues other than "take no prisoners" style. His English skills were somewhat lacking in that period, and when he tried to explain various scenarios right after the race, tired, blood pressure high, then linguistic concepts as culturally acceptable in Germany when translated word for word opened door for English media who had their own agenda, and produced a lot of misleading and false spinoffs. So, yes, it was hectic on track just as off track, but it was never as bad as some are making it. Until today one British solicitor terms MS openly as a criminal.

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I disagree on who started the conflict between Seb and mark but that's beside the point, Seb has changed as I personally couldn't stand Seb before. He came across just just the complete package as a [email protected] But getting beaten by Ricciardo and moving to Ferrari have given him a fresh new start and he relished in the opportunity and was at home right away. Seb needed to get beaten and he needed to be brought down a peg or two. In return he is a lot more relaxed and calmed down and I think becoming father has helped that also. I've started to become a fan of Seb and most of that is down to a complete attitude over haul. i still can't get over the fact today that they were trying to make Michael Schumacher a convicted criminal after Jerez. I've said this ever since this happened and that's that the sport has become way to soft, Michael did nothing different that other famous drivers would've done before him and you can tell instantly people who make comments about the hill or Villeneuve experience simply have no actual racing experience of there own, there making judgement based purely of what was seen. If you have ever raced properly before you would know that Schumacher acted instinctively on both occasions as any driver would've firmly tried to shut the door on both occasions as they have the line to begin with, he's not going to just let him by especially when a championship is at stake and people forget just how aggressive and dangerous Villeneuve was at the start of the Japanese GP a few weeks earlier. That's how I've always seen it as I would've done the exact same thing.

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I disagree on who started the conflict between Seb and mark but that's beside the point, Seb has changed as I personally couldn't stand Seb before. He came across just just the complete package as a [email protected] But getting beaten by Ricciardo and moving to Ferrari have given him a fresh new start and he relished in the opportunity and was at home right away. Seb needed to get beaten and he needed to be brought down a peg or two. In return he is a lot more relaxed and calmed down and I think becoming father has helped that also. I've started to become a fan of Seb and most of that is down to a complete attitude over haul. i still can't get over the fact today that they were trying to make Michael Schumacher a convicted criminal after Jerez. I've said this ever since this happened and that's that the sport has become way to soft, Michael did nothing different that other famous drivers would've done before him and you can tell instantly people who make comments about the hill or Villeneuve experience simply have no actual racing experience of there own, there making judgement based purely of what was seen. If you have ever raced properly before you would know that Schumacher acted instinctively on both occasions as any driver would've firmly tried to shut the door on both occasions as they have the line to begin with, he's not going to just let him by especially when a championship is at stake and people forget just how aggressive and dangerous Villeneuve was at the start of the Japanese GP a few weeks earlier. That's how I've always seen it as I would've done the exact same thing.

Well I would not expect that everyone would agree with me on every point; that would make life boring, but just to add, Seb was beaten not as much by his teammate, but rather different equipment and technology requiring new racing technique to which he adjusted quite late in 2014. DR would have been probably not so much smiling had he moved next to him in 2013.

Year 2014 contained many changes for Vettel, and not all very good ones. That's about all what I think we can say about that subject. People do not change, our perception of them however do.

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This is another thing people don't realise, dan had to use the same equipment and Vettel being a 4x champ and basically owning the team since 2010, every nook and cranny would have been built around his style and operation to give redbull best chance of success. Yet dan came in, using the same equipment, possibly even older as new parts would go to Seb first and took hold of what was built around Vettel, he would've had to learn how the team operates and yet beat Vettel. That's how I see it an achievement that I personally think doesn't get enough respect IMO. Call me biased if you like but I think 2014 proved that Ricciardo is one of the best out there, intact I hold him second to alonso and that's ahead of Vettel and Hamilton and co. Just on race craft alone, monza 2014 move on Vettel proved that to me and from years of kart racing you learn that you can psyically see who has it and who doesn't but once again that's my own opinion. People do change and I know first hand about that. 2 years ago I was a fit young man with a good career,family and kids until an accident at work has left me perminantly and partially disabled, the mental challenges involved let alone the psyical side wore me down. I never thought depression existed until I was struck with it. Just not being able to do everyday things I could do before without thinking about them, suddenly become challenges in there own. You think when the compensation comes that it will help heal everything, it doesn't, it does nothing, because all you want back is the ability to do whatever you wanted without having being challenged to do so, I know people change because my whole outlook on life has changed, down to the governments who are supposed to help but are to busy mind controlling the population to give two craps about a "model" citizen from before, you loose the ability to contribute to society, your toast. I used to think the same, for example "once a thief,always a thief" after what I've been going through, Iam not so sure anymore. If people can go from high to low in terms of what they do in life and behaviour and such, sure it must be able to go back the other way, it's just harder that's all. If you lie down and someone pours sand on you, it becomes more difficult to get up if more sand is getting piled on, much easier if your already standing isn't?

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2014 machine was not built around Vettel. New technology, new feeling, different driving technique, and need for re-adjustment. Ground zero.

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Of course the car would've been built around Vettel as at the time they wouldn't have known what mark webber was doing so they wouldn't be able to take the risk and build that way. Anyway let's say it wasn't built around him, doesn't that make dans achievement even better? Seb should've been able to adapt quicker but he couldn't and just went to show that Seb and the blown diffuser from the previous years were a match made in heaven, take it away and he has to adjust to a more "alive" rear end. In my opinion, no matter what excuse, he simply got outplayed from every angle and even tried to consolidate it by frequently updating and changing chassis but it didn't help.

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Of course the car would've been built around Vettel as at the time they wouldn't have known what mark webber was doing so they wouldn't be able to take the risk and build that way. Anyway let's say it wasn't built around him, doesn't that make dans achievement even better? Seb should've been able to adapt quicker but he couldn't and just went to show that Seb and the blown diffuser from the previous years were a match made in heaven, take it away and he has to adjust to a more "alive" rear end. In my opinion, no matter what excuse, he simply got outplayed from every angle and even tried to consolidate it by frequently updating and changing chassis but it didn't help.

That's not my recollection of what was happening at RBR in 2014. I do not want to start war of words around here, therefore I do not want to go on that path, but DR alleged superiority over Vettel is highly exaggerated, so much I will say, but hey, for some that is all what they have. If we would use the same yardstick on DR which is so often used against Vettel, than we could lay a claim that Kvyat destroyed DR in 2015, which would be just as irresponsible statement to make IMO.

I've followed whole season in great details, and no amount of words on the internet will convince me of DR superiority. It would have to be year 2013 equipment, and DR win it, that would have been different story; problem is, that did not however happen.

2015 equipment failed, as Newey said with detectable level of nastiness in his voice, I can't fix it, so Vettel has to relearn how to drive it. Today it is water under the bridge, Vettel found his sweet spot again, and we see him it the track.

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I never said Ricciardo had superiority, I said Vettel did, and to say kvyat beat Ricciardo isn't true either, Ricciardo suffered more issues than kvyat did but when both drivers had a trouble free race and finished it was mostly Ricciardo who would finish ahead and get the bulk of the points. He did that from the first race and did it again in the last race of the season. To say redbull didn't build the car or try assist the setup towards Seb is a joke, they don't just make a car, it's made to setup the number one driver and for the second driver, it's up to him to adapt to that and customise it to his liking as much as possible otherwise he will get beaten, then to say Vettel didn't get parts before Ricciardo either, I would disagree on that to, it's common sense, if the car in 2014 was focused or built around sebs driving style, then who was it for? Mark Webber? Daniel Ricciardo? Redbull didn't name Ricciardo until they knew what webber was doing. Also it's near impossible to compare Ricciardo and kvyat as both had basically the same points but reliability was shocking so it was more luck than anything and it's the same when people compare button and alonsos results from last year, there chances of results was such a monopoly that total luck played into any scoring chance, so it's impossible to compare. But this is all just an opinion and that's all it is, doesn't mean it's correct in your eyes but it's an opinion.

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Are'nt those the same points that I was raising Em? Ric didnt need to adjust drastically like Vettel cause he never drove cars with that much downforce. And right from the start Vettel was the one with the worst share of bad luck. Started right at testing. Plus the effect of seeing his fallen hero in that state, plus his baby added to a freak year

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Ricciardo never drove cars with that much down force? He started in 2011 at the height of the blown diffuser stage, the only thing Ricciardo didn't have to deal with was the birth of a child but he had moved to a new team and up against a 4x champ, he would've felt the pressure just as much if not more so, Vettel wouldn't have fear of loosing his seat like Ricciardo would. You just have to know when credits due that all lol and in this situation, He excelled beyond anyone's imagination.

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Then...as I said before... Kvyat must be a demi-god. And pls...no excuses. You cant apply one set of circumstances to one situation then not to the other. It will make us hypocrites.

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Then...as I said before... Kvyat must be a demi-god. And pls...no excuses. You cant apply one set of circumstances to one situation then not to the other. It will make us hypocrites.

Hey it seems to work every single time for kimi fans and besides I've stated I don't how many times why kvyats season wasn't what it seemed as its a case of points don't tell the whole story.

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The other thing to, kvyat didn't beat Ricciardo by over 100 points either like dan did to Seb. Ricciardo was behind kvyat by 10 points going into Abu Dhabi and cut it to 3 by the end, thus proving my point also by scoring more points than kvyat when it was needed most, am I the only one who can see it from this point of view? Could you see kvyat coming into the team last season, winning 3 races and beating Ricciardo by over 100 points? Put it into that perspective. The only race kvyat was actually faster than Ricciardo was at Monaco and even then he wasn't faster for the entire race. I won't see it the same as most because I relate to every issue from the point of view I get from racing personally for the years I did. But that's my experience and opinion. It certainly doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

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Hey it seems to work every single time for kimi fans and besides I've stated I don't how many times why kvyats season wasn't what it seemed as its a case of points don't tell the whole story.

...also..the case in points with Vettel dont tell the full story. Thats what everone else have been telling you

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Explain why? He had multiple new chassis to try rectify his issues, got passed on the circuit and was upset once asked to move over, now if Vettel knew he had no fighting chance as his car only was so horrible to drive and was a team player, why not let Daniel through? Why make it an issue? That's ok Seb, I've got the t-shirt of it anyway so I'll never forget, points my not tell the whole story but victories do and from someone who equals schumachers record of 13 wins in one season and four straight titles, I think what Daniel did holds some merit but to say he "lucked" into or the car suited him better after it was designed for Vettel, is just pi$$ing in any Ricciardo fans pockets as I firmly believe people still haven't grasped the magnitude of what he actually did.

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http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/557003/Horner_Hamilton_and_Vettel_could_never_be_teammates/

Horner:

"There was an intense rivalry between Mark and Seb. Less with Seb because he had the upper hand, so anything Mark could do to try and get under his skin he would do.

Me:

Webber thought that Vettel will play second fiddle to him from day one. That was miscalculation, we can say today.

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Yeah I knew that, webber and coulthard basically built the team so webber thought once DC left, that he would be lead driver, except he couldn't beat his new teammate, so any mind games would be used to try rattle Seb abit. Now this backs up my other story, so Seb wasn't buying any mind games webber played hey? So why did he find it so mentally challenging to come up with answers as to why he couldn't beat Ricciardo. I was a massive webber fan and it killed me to have a fellow Aussie get so close to the title then bin it in Korea. He simply didn't deserve a title as he didnt want it bad enough, he was a half way there man IMO. He only ever had one shot at the title at that was 2010. You can fight for wins and titles year in and year out but if someone wants it more than you do, your not going to get it.

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Yeah I knew that, webber and coulthard basically built the team so webber thought once DC left, that he would be lead driver, except he couldn't beat his new teammate, so any mind games would be used to try rattle Seb abit. Now this backs up my other story, so Seb wasn't buying any mind games webber played hey? So why did he find it so mentally challenging to come up with answers as to why he couldn't beat Ricciardo. I was a massive webber fan and it killed me to have a fellow Aussie get so close to the title then bin it in Korea. He simply didn't deserve a title as he didnt want it bad enough, he was a half way there man IMO. He only ever had one shot at the title at that was 2010. You can fight for wins and titles year in and year out but if someone wants it more than you do, your not going to get it.

My own theory is, that Vettel had his own issues to deal with in 2014, and never actually competed head-to-head against DR. I would buy into theory of DR being better driver than Vettel, had DR competed against him earlier on, and prior 2014, something which actually never happened, and therefore remains a subject for speculation. Defeating Vettel in 2013 or in any of previous years would put to the end any such argument, that's for sure.

Impetus for posting most recent comments by Horner was offer as an counterargument to your theory that it was Vettel who drew first blood, whereas I beg to differ. The instigator was Webber, and some of the more prominent conflicts segment of media tried to hang on Vettel, but in reality there was series of Webber's "little" indiscretions, which of course ended with "I have enough of you". (All commented on, and admitted in later months independently by Horner and Marko).

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