Clicky

Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Emmcee

2016 Mercedes

Recommended Posts

Well apparently both Merc drivers have a clause stating they must let the other past if there hindering there chances of victory. That would explain nico just moving aside, got the call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post No. 25 is discussing a different situation which may arrise when both cars are healthy, and there is scrimage between those two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You watch sakae, those two wont be able to race each other again after what happened in Spain, it's not the first time, Merc says they allow there drivers to race, which is the right thing to do, but everytime they do, there's almost a certain coming together. This will happen more and more as Spain IMO was more than just a failure, it was nico proving a point, Iam not going to be a pushover anymore is what I made out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I agree. I am not sure what Rosberg knows which we do not, but I think he is done there, as long as Hamilton stays. I bet he will mysteriously walk backwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Circuit looks great, can't wait to open up on the circuit in f1 2016. Surprised redbull had pace concidering the long straight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Mercedes driver pairing is a liability to German money.
 
 
FiA investigates Rosberg (for driving with damaged car, or causing collision?). Did Hamilton hit Rosberg actually twice (LR tire on the return to track)?
 
 
Whole internet is looking at that incident, blaming Rosberg, yet I see Hamilton ramming Rosberg's car. What's wrong with me?
 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the penalty for Rosberg bordering on the unreal, he was on the inside, he could (and should) defend his position, Hamilton turned into him on purpose, Hamilton could (and should) have taken the run off area, rejoin the track (and pass Nico before the next corner as he would have been on the throttle much much earlier than Rosberg...)

 

But that is not the point, I'm having enough of this farce, at least what happened in Austria in 2002 was straightforward, Barrichello had to let his team leader through, the problem today was not the last lap, the problem was that they knowingly gave Rosberg tyres that wouldn't last to the end of the race, this is the real issue. When will Hamilton win on his own merit rather than thanks to some very very very dubious decisions by the pit wall?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

where was Rosberg supposed to go? disappear?

 

 

RosbergHamiltonAustria.jpg

One place he could've gone was the apex of the corner, instead of not turning his wheels at all on entry and just ramming into Hamilton.

Rosberg didn't turn.  His front wheels were straight, and are in this screenshot.  Hamilton's the only one turning.  And not turning in, because Hamilton is way wide, and Rosberg is substantially off the racing line.

It was 100% Rosberg, and it was 100% intentional.  I think dislike for Hamilton/his persona is clouding judgment here.  What's unfair is that a 10 second penalty does nothing to Rosberg, in my view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if Rosberg didn't take the turn how come his car his pointing right?

Also why did they gave Nico tyres that they knew wouldn't last (Hamilton complained that he couldn't do a full lap at 100% with those tyres)?

And why they pitted the car behind before the car in front? Isn't the unwritten rule the opposite? You first pit the car in front and then the one behind? And consider that Rosberg's soft tyres had 11 laps more that Hamilton's... let's be honest, Hamilton had to win and so the pit wall duly intervened and put Rosberg in an impossible situation, and I'm glad that this time he didn't swallow his pride and play the good second driver.

I bet that Rosberg was not in the mood to handing the race to Hamilton, and what he did is perfectly within the rules (and Hamilton could have easily avoided this situation and still overtake Rosberg outside of the corner). What Hamilton did is very similar to what Schumar did to Villeneuve in 1997, he took a quick look and turned into another car. Schumacher was vilified (deservedly so) for years, Hamilton not only is not vilified accordingly but they even handed a farcial penalty to Rosberg, I presume for crimen maiestatis: how dare Nico try to defy team orders in disguise and try to beat the almighty Lewis? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I find the penalty for Rosberg bordering on the unreal, he was on the inside, he could (and should) defend his position, Hamilton turned into him on purpose, Hamilton could (and should) have taken the run off area, rejoin the track (and pass Nico before the next corner as he would have been on the throttle much much earlier than Rosberg...)

 

But that is not the point, I'm having enough of this farce, at least what happened in Austria in 2002 was straightforward, Barrichello had to let his team leader through, the problem today was not the last lap, the problem was that they knowingly gave Rosberg tyres that wouldn't last to the end of the race, this is the real issue. When will Hamilton win on his own merit rather than thanks to some very very very dubious decisions by the pit wall?

I totally agree. Based on video-link posted earlier, I am also under very strong impression that Hamilton rammed Rosberg intentionally. The way his car suddenly changed direction and swung into Rosberg's path is strong evidence of it. I thought Hamilton actually will be DQ, but boy, FiA striked again, yet Hamilton's clan either doesn't see it, or they do not want to see it, and no minds will change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

if Rosberg didn't take the turn how come his car his pointing right?

Also why did they gave Nico tyres that they knew wouldn't last (Hamilton complained that he couldn't do a full lap at 100% with those tyres)?

And why they pitted the car behind before the car in front? Isn't the unwritten rule the opposite? You first pit the car in front and then the one behind? And consider that Rosberg's soft tyres had 11 laps more that Hamilton's... let's be honest, Hamilton had to win and so the pit wall duly intervened and put Rosberg in an impossible situation, and I'm glad that this time he didn't swallow his pride and play the good second driver.

I bet that Rosberg was not in the mood to handing the race to Hamilton, and what he did is perfectly within the rules (and Hamilton could have easily avoided this situation and still overtake Rosberg outside of the corner). What Hamilton did is very similar to what Schumar did to Villeneuve in 1997, he took a quick look and turned into another car. Schumacher was vilified (deservedly so) for years, Hamilton not only is not vilified accordingly but they even handed a farcial penalty to Rosberg, I presume for crimen maiestatis: how dare Nico try to defy team orders in disguise and try to beat the almighty Lewis? 

My guess is that his car, with front wheels still nearly straight, is pointing right because he has just collided with an object (Hamilton's car) that is now pushing him rightward.

You can either lament Rosberg getting the softer tires or Rosberg getting later pit stop, but not both, as they explain each other.  If you put Rosberg on softer tires, presumably you pit him later so that he doesn't have to do as many laps on the tires that will wear.  And Hamilton came on the radio, upset that Rosberg had the faster tires, so if Hamilton got to call his own strategy, he'd have been on the same ones on Rosberg.

My guesses, and admittedly, only guesses, as to why Mercedes used the strategy it did:

(1) Hamilton was faster than Rosberg, in part because Hamilton had fresher tires before the final pit stop, but Rosberg did have some aerodynamic damage already.

(2) Rosberg, technically, only inherited the lead of Hamilton's race due to safety car timing.

(3) Verstappen wasn't going to pit again and was close enough to jump both Mercedes after they pitted.  They wanted to make sure Verstappen wouldn't win, so they split the strategies.  Hamilton got the one he got because he was in the best position to make it work (healthier car, faster).

(4) Rosberg, then the leader, gets the most deference on blue flags.  But drivers slowly stop listening to blue flags the further down the order you get.  So, Hamilton would've been impeded more by lapped traffic than Rosberg, meaning it made more sense to move him out of it sooner to, again, avoid Verstappen breaking the 1-2 finish.

I don't think it is fair to say either driver gets preferential treatment at Mercedes.  Both have had the better strategy.  Both have had the worse.  Both have jumped the other at times in the other's race to win.  And both have done bad things, things detrimental to the team, things that border on poor sportsmanship, with each other.

As for the move, I have watched it over and over, and I keep seeing the same thing: Rosberg intentionally hits Hamilton.

Here, I have uploaded screenshots of the wreck, with my captions, explaining what I see: http://imgur.com/a/7gXzR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Video is better. Static captions do not show how Hamilton suddenly changed his direction. One moment he is parallel, next moment Rosberg - in static view-looks like is driving into him, whereas in dynamic representation we can understand what Hamilton actually did in that situation. Publius is absolutely correct in his observation. Sorry, Massa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rosberg didn't do anything technically wrong, he left the required 1 car width gap, it doesn't say you must eventually make the corner, as long as you give that one car space which IMO he did, Hamilton just turned in, he could've ran out wide but I think Lewis was trying to muscle Rosberg into lifting of which didn't happen. Toto Wolff almost had a heart attack but IMHO I think it was a racing incident but pushing the limits of what's acceptable, both to blame IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sakae said:

Video is better. Static captions do not show how Hamilton suddenly changed his direction. One moment he is parallel, next moment Rosberg - in static view-looks like is driving into him, whereas in dynamic representation we can understand what Hamilton actually did in that situation. Publius is absolutely correct in his observation. Sorry, Massa.

So, Publius uses a static view to make his point, and there's no objection.  I use static views, and that's apparently misleading.  Got it. :lol:

I've seen the video.  Live and in multiple replays.  I see the same thing I see in the images: Hamilton taking a normal high line and Rosberg completely missing the corner.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.  We saw different things.  At the end of the day, no one got penalized, because Rosberg kept fourth and will never amass enough penalty points that his two will be material.  So, whoever was at fault got away freely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how Lewis pays Nico back for Nico's gentleman move-to-the-side in Monaco.

Hamilton will do any dirty trick just to win. Heck he would sell his parents for a podium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could've ended up in no points for either of them, it's very very lucky Lewis got away with it without any damage. The stewards were harsh on nico, like he said he had the inside and with his worn brakes tried to go deep and he was lucky he didn't lock up and take Lewis of aswell so like I said earlier there both to blame but if it was anyone's corner, it was rosbergs. If Lewis wasn't expecting nico to go deep and defend more so than most other laps aswell as attempting the move on the outside, he has rocks in his head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's left up to each other interpretation, fact is he said he had worn brakes as did the team and Lewis was aware of it also so that might explain why it seemed he drifted towards the outside, not an excuse but that has to be taken into concideration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Massa said:

So, Publius uses a static view to make his point, and there's no objection.  I use static views, and that's apparently misleading.  Got it. :lol:

I've seen the video.  Live and in multiple replays.  I see the same thing I see in the images: Hamilton taking a normal high line and Rosberg completely missing the corner.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.  We saw different things.  At the end of the day, no one got penalized, because Rosberg kept fourth and will never amass enough penalty points that his two will be material.  So, whoever was at fault got away freely.

Our interpretation over the incident then differs, and I cannot ignore Hamilton turning into Rosberg; sorry about it, but that's how it is. There is of course psychological blow to Rosberg, which is being ignored. His management is not defending him in public very well, and FiA rubber-stamp it. Publius is correct recalling incident Schumacher was involved in, and I would add incident Vettel with Webber. Very similar situations, yet suddenly when Hamilton is involved, world has changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hang on I always have to correct people here when referring Schumacher and Villeneuve. Let's look at that with common sense, it was for a world title and not just any normal race win, what did you honestly expect schumi to do? Turn out of the corner and give the faster Villeneuve the position? No way in hell, if you damage your car defending your position for a world title I think it needs to be looked at in that sense and realise Villeneuve would've done the same thing, in fact he was the one who chopped across infront of schumi in Suzuka that year but that never gets a mention. I'll defend schumi for Jerez 97 and Adelaide 94. Adelaide 94 hill was at fault IMO, if he didn't think schumi wouldn't close the door in a race like that for what's at stake and having to go half of the circuit to even attempt the move on schumi, hill 100% at fault IMO. Schumi did push boundaries but not any further than senna who get praised for his aggressive style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...