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Sakae

Silly Season

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Massa that's a great read on the current climate of Indy.

I haven't paid any serious attention to Indy since it was last called ChampCar and Mansell was racing there. So my era of Indy I guess is Mansell and then JV, and then once they split, I was gone. What a great way to destroy a sport. It's not even come close to how great it used to be. And currently the cars look horrendous.

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Interesting but if vandoorne wasn't in the picture, mclaren would hang onto button it's only out of fear of loosing stoffel as they have made him sit out for to long.

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I am going to make a few enemies on this forum, but holding on JB makes no sense to me at all. Maybe lack of sentimental values on my part makes me to see things differently. Renault, IMHO, has somewhat more intelligent management than McLaren has. Lotus was in a hurry to force Palmer upon Renault, which was utterly bad decision as we see now, but there is no point to cry over spilt milk, is there? Renault has sensible plausible plan now with resources, whereas I am not sure what McLaren has, other than talking big.

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Not sure what's going on, but media now running around with rumor, that Ferrari wants Horner in Maranello. Sounds very dismissive of Arrivabene's abilities to lead the team. No one (the same media) is dismissing Allison, yet this year Ferrari is HIS project.

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Ricciardo is mentioned in that Horner story as well with the possibility of dan,Seb and Horner reuniting.

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DR has already put down a condition - I will move to another team, if they say "we want to win the championship with YOU". Fact is, I don't mind him driving for Ferrari as an equal partner, but he has to give up that whining attitute every time Vettel wipes the floor with him. If Vettel has difficult time now with (Anglo) media, it is going to be worse when DR comes on board. I can see that any good performance on his part will be shot down as preferential treatment by the team against DR. This partnership might never work smoothly (as we learning how Rosberg is treated by the same media, favoring Hamilton).

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Just what does replacing 35-year-old Felipe Massa with 36-year-old Jenson Button do for Williams? I know Massa was vocal about not wanting a pay cut in like...2009 or something...but I can't imagine he's any more expensive than Button. And Williams/Button have a very bizarre relationship, what with them not exercising their option to take Button back, then signing a new deal with Button, only to have BAR when in arbitration to keep Button against Button's will, only to then have Williams try to recall Button for 2006 but Button refusing this time as David Richards was gone from BAR-becoming-Honda...yikes.

I assume they want a driver for just one year, hoping that, by 2018, one of their development drivers Alex Lynn and Lance Stroll will be ready—or someone else will become available. Maybe it's that Massa won't agree to a one-year deal, whereas Button will?

I personally think Bottas and Massa have been Williams' strongest pair in more than a decade. If they aren't bringing in someone new long-term, I don't see a reason to change.

But I will be glad if we finally get Vandoorne in F1.

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I gather speculations are part of the F1 scene. I still remember all those "definite" stories about Bottas goes to Ferrari. It is really huge waste of time to pay any attention to it. For example this week - Horner to Ferrari. FFS who dreamt up that one? Was Arri put on notice, or Horner has a death wish and moves to Maranello, only even before he settles in, he will be invited to move out? He has quite a nice place where he is, and will stay put, methinks. Not everyone wants to work under SM. The older drivers will milk employers as long as employers will tolerate it. It's pitty, because there are some really gifted young people who cannot get a seat, because 35 year old guy wants to stay.

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DR has already put down a condition - I will move to another team, if they say "we want to win the championship with YOU". Fact is, I don't mind him driving for Ferrari as an equal partner, but he has to give up that whining attitute every time Vettel wipes the floor with him. If Vettel has difficult time now with (Anglo) media, it is going to be worse when DR comes on board. I can see that any good performance on his part will be shot down as preferential treatment by the team against DR. This partnership might never work smoothly (as we learning how Rosberg is treated by the same media, favoring Hamilton).

I doubt that, look at the situation now, he is with a team that can't even win a race with him, I think fairness and just the ability to be rewarded for a good days work is all he is after. He said he should have more on his resume to match his skills and I cannot agree more. I think Seb and dan would be a good team again, especially with Horner and this time under management that doesn't favour one driver, I really think they would strive to bring Ferrari back.

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Just what does replacing 35-year-old Felipe Massa with 36-year-old Jenson Button do for Williams? I know Massa was vocal about not wanting a pay cut in like...2009 or something...but I can't imagine he's any more expensive than Button. And Williams/Button have a very bizarre relationship, what with them not exercising their option to take Button back, then signing a new deal with Button, only to have BAR when in arbitration to keep Button against Button's will, only to then have Williams try to recall Button for 2006 but Button refusing this time as David Richards was gone from BAR-becoming-Honda...yikes.

I assume they want a driver for just one year, hoping that, by 2018, one of their development drivers Alex Lynn and Lance Stroll will be ready—or someone else will become available. Maybe it's that Massa won't agree to a one-year deal, whereas Button will?

I personally think Bottas and Massa have been Williams' strongest pair in more than a decade. If they aren't bringing in someone new long-term, I don't see a reason to change.

But I will be glad if we finally get Vandoorne in F1.

I think massa only wants a one year deal or something along those lines anyway as I read a story a few weeks ago saying massa doesn't know if he will continue past this season. He also said if he decided to stay it would be for another two years at most so if that's the case it would seem the logical thing to retain massa as I agree with your comments on the current driver lineup. But Williams and button both said they will work together again one day and maybe next season is it. We know mclaren won't drop alonso and vandoorne wants in or he's looking elsewhere so button will be sacrificed. I must admit, I've been even more impressed with button since Honda has come back, I honestly thought alonso would be more dominant than he is, there dead even IMO and work very well together, button is still very very fast. Rumour has it massa is in talks with Renault but I think he could end up at haas aswell. Then you have alonso to which I also read Renault want to lure him back and Mercedes might be interested in him also so there's options there to, then you have the Ricciardo to Ferrari story again. A lot of drivers suposidly moving around and yet rosbergs name isn't mentioned in all of this so where would he go?

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Massa sounds like a defeated man, openly talking about new directions (without Williams) he considers to extend his career in auto-racing. Looks like there will be (at least one) opening at Williams in 2017. Well, we ar being told, Maldo is working hard to get back into F1...

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I just can't buy Ricciardo to Ferrari until someone convinces me Räikkönen is actually leaving. In seven races this year, Räikkönen has the same number of podium finishes (three) as he had in his first thirty-eight races of this stint with Ferrari (the full 2014 and 2015 seasons). Ferrari's inability to beat Mercedes (and now maybe even Red Bull) has nothing to do with the driver lineup. I don't see a reason to change it, unless Räikkönen retires—and there's just no indication from Räikkönen that he will be doing that yet.

I think Ricciardo will find he is stuck where he is. The number of teams that can pay a driver, instead of the other way around, is quite low. The number of such teams with an actual, open seat is even lower. The only realistic move Ricciardo could make is replacing Massa at Williams, but Williams seem to have already decided on Button, so that's probably out. I suppose he could also go to Renault, but surely Renault would have to do a heck of a lot more to convince anyone that's an okay place to be. The fact is that Renault will never be as good as Red Bull on chassis, and so if they share a power unit, well, good luck...

Massa sounds like a defeated man, openly talking about new directions (without Williams) he considers to extend his career in auto-racing. Looks like there will be (at least one) opening at Williams in 2017. Well, we ar being told, Maldo is working hard to get back into F1...

Renault has to be Massa's only option, right? No other team that could pay him would pay him. I've seen Massa linked to Haas in this thread, but Haas isn't a team that can pay him—Gutiérrez is not at Haas because the people at Haas can't evaluate talent. He's there because Telcel, Claro, etc. stickers are placed on the car in exchange for money. Especially if the 2017 regulations change a lot, you're not going to see Haas go from Gutiérrez paying them millions to race to suddenly having Massa's seven-or-eight-figure salary.

As for Maldonado, I don't know how he'll get the funding. Venezuela's not backing racing drivers anymore. Who else will invest in his return? I like him, honestly, and think that confirmation bias ruined his perception. Everyone wanted him to be awful, so we all looked for him to be awful. And the stewards had this idea in their head that he was dangerous, so they penalized him anytime he was remotely near an incident, even though they would never give such a penalty to anyone else. And then the penalties became evidence to those looking for reasons to think he was awful to prove he was awful. He really wasn't the worst.

Ricciardo to increase sales in Australia? Lmao, most people here still don't know who he is because he doesn't play cricket or football. Dan was hired for doing as well as he did in the feeder series.

Ricciardo was hired to F1 because he did well, but he was brought into Red Bull's development program in the first place because he was the best option in a region Red Bull was targeting. Red Bull's junior program has almost always had a geographic component—take the "best" (I say "best" because their American driver search was looking not for the best driver, but actually for a personality and a storyline—Red Bull wanted someone very raw to prove Red Bull could "teach" talent, and it turns out that they couldn't, or at least Scott Speed couldn't learn it. Speed did not actually win the driver search in terms of driving ability; he wasn't even close to many others. But those others were too "seasoned" for Red Bull to take all the credit and not edgy enough/big enough attitude for Red Bull. Disaster. Anyway...) driver(s) from a certain nation or region, combining talent development with marketing.

Ricciardo came on at the same time as Brendon Hartley. Australia and New Zealand were something Red Bull was looking at then. France has been another big one—Red Bull was banned in France for a time. When there was pressure to lift the ban in 2008, they brought Bourdais immediately into Toro Rosso, and by July, the ban was gone (I suspect Bourdais had nothing to do with that, but they openly admitted Bourdais was hired to try to influence the politics). Since the ban, Red Bull has still focused on French drivers to try ti generate sales in France, as you could imagine a product banned for being unsafe, but then allowed to be sold, might be met with consumer skepticism. And then there's the United States, where Red Bull did three driver searches (Scott Speed, Colin Fleming, and John Michael Edwards coming from those). In fact, before Toro Rosso, sometime ~2003, Red Bull said their intention was to have an all-American F1 team with an American engine. Oops! :lol:

Anyway, it's not a coincidence that Red Bull's single-seater sponsorship has been regionally concentrated, and usually by era (e.g., early on, they signed Austrian drivers to reflect Red Bull's nationality; all but one of their British drivers has been from 2012—present)

UK (6): Oliver Oakes, Lewis Williamson, Tom Blomqvist, Alex Lynn, Callum Ilott, Dean Stoneman

France (5): Sébastien Bourdais, Tom Dillmann, Jean-Karl Vernay, Jean-Éric Vergne, Pierre Gasly

Netherlands (4): Robert Doornbos, Beitske Visser, Max Verstappen, Richard Verschoor

Germany (4): Michael Ammermüller, Kevin Mirocha, Sebastian Vettel, Stefan Wackerbauer

Spain (3): Daniel Juncadella, Jaime Alguersuari, Carlos Sainz Jr.

USA (3): Scott Speed, Colin Fleming, John Michael Edwards

India (3): Narain Karthikeyan, Karun Chandhok, Neel Jani (heritage)

Italy (3): Vitantonio Liuzzi, Edoardo Piscopo, Mirko Bortolotti

Brazil (3): Enrique Bernoldi, Pedro Bianchini, Sérgio Sette Câmara

Austria (2): Patrick Friesacher, Christian Klien

Portugal (2): Filipe Albuquerque, António Félix da Costa

Switzerland (2): Neel Jani, Sébastien Buemi

Russia (2): Mikhail Aleshin, Daniil Kvyat

Australia (2): Daniel Ricciardo, Luis Leeds

South Africa (2): Adrian Zaugg, Callum O'Keeffe

Canada (2): Daniel Morad, Robert Wickens

Finland (2): Mika Mäki, Niko Kari

Thailand, Monaco, New Zealand, and Ireland are the only nations to produce exactly one Red Bull driver—you don't get a lot of isolated hirings in the Red Bull program.

Note also that Red Bull has never had an F1-associated (e.g., in an F1 ladder series; not in rally or bikes or stock cars or such) driver from these nations, all of which produce a fair amount of drivers or have some racing industry: Argentina, Belgium, China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Japan, Mexico, Sweden, UAE, and Venezuela.

Why? Because some of those markets are better reached through other types of racing than F1. Others, like China, are new to Red Bull's roster (Red Bull officially came to China in 2014 and has only this year really taken off). Finally, a few already have established driver programs, and Red Bull likes to be trailblazing as a link to F1 (Japan and Mexico, for example, have Honda/Toyota and América Movil, respectively, funding serious driver development. Venezuela used to have PDVSA).

All that to say nationality plays a big role in the program.

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...All that to say nationality plays a big role in the program.

Definitely it does. It is my impression, if one substituted Hamilton (DR or JB) name instead Vettel, and had he the same record of achievement as Seb, line for line, fans, media, and everyone else would talk about it in different terms than they do now about the German.

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I read massa is also concidering options in formula e and WEC. When a driver starts talking about things like this it means his decision has been made, massa WONT be in f1 next year. The entire driver market hangs around two drivers,

1- raikkonen, will he stay or go? Like mentioned above, I can't see any reason to replace kimi, so unless kimi wants to leave himself, I beleive he will be there next season.

2- rosberg, this seat is probably the biggest game changer, where is nico rosberg going to be in 2017? If he doesn't sign for Mercedes, where will he go? IMO I think the driver market isn't going to fluctuate as much as people are hoping, kimi will stay and so will nico basically making everyone else stay put in the process. Mclaren and Renault look like the only teams really available to anyone ohh and haas. Button will go to Williams to partner bottas, vandoorne will partner alonso and haas will find someone else to partner grosjean. I still can't understand why haas picked Gutierrez over Alex Rossi, at the time it must have been an experience thing because it can't be a skill thing lol. This with maybe a driver change at toro Rosso but other than that, this is all that's going to happen IMO.

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Haas chose Gutiérrez because Haas cannot afford to pay two drivers. Haas needs a driver who brings money. Gutiérrez is that driver. Rossi does not have enough funding to be in F1. I imagine Gutiérrez will return to Haas simply because there is no one else floating around with the backing Gutiérrez has.

Agree with you on the variables, though. The only other thing that I could see, and this is just my own speculation, is Pérez going to Renault amidst Force India's uncertainty.

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Perez is very underrated IMO, just when you think he is struggling for form, he whacks it on the podium.

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Both Sauber seats could be up for replacements, and one or possibly two at Renault. Palmer for sure I think, maybe Mag too. I'm not sure on Perez to Ferrari though. I think Ricci or Nico would be first picks if they became available AND Kimi was wanting to leave. If it was the choice between keeping Kimi and picking Perez, or GRO, or whomever, I think the smart choice would be to stick with Kimi. GRO, the Hulk, it's not going to happen for them. And Max isn't going anywhere right now. Which I think despite Riccis little bleats of unhappiness, he's not going anywhere either. I would say both their contracts are pretty tight.

As for Kimi, he has improved this year for sure, and really has only faltered at Monaco. I didn't realize he didn't like the track. Its no excuse but it is true some drivers just can't come to grips with it. I mean he clearly likes SPA and that as a motor racing fan means more to me anyway. But sadly I do have to admit I haven't enjoyed the races at SPA much since the V10 and V8 days.

He could have maybe won in Barcelona, but we also saw Ricci not being able to pass Vettel and we've covered all that ground anyway. In short he hasn't on the whole been disappointing and has been better than 2014 and 2015. Something that was key to retaining him. If he keeps this up, and Ferrari get no races wins at all, it won't be because Kimi and Seb are untalented drivers. Ferrari haven't made any improvements that have actually improved them as of yet.

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I agree, kimi has found his form again. I don't think he has improved as he was pretty good to begin with, he just had a slump in form and has seemed to have found it again. As for sauber I forgot about them, could massa return there like button back to his first team Williams? And we also don't know how stable force India is do we? If they will be there next season.

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Just what does replacing 35-year-old Felipe Massa with 36-year-old Jenson Button do for Williams? I know Massa was vocal about not wanting a pay cut in like...2009 or something...but I can't imagine he's any more expensive than Button. And Williams/Button have a very bizarre relationship, what with them not exercising their option to take Button back, then signing a new deal with Button, only to have BAR when in arbitration to keep Button against Button's will, only to then have Williams try to recall Button for 2006 but Button refusing this time as David Richards was gone from BAR-becoming-Honda...yikes.

I assume they want a driver for just one year, hoping that, by 2018, one of their development drivers Alex Lynn and Lance Stroll will be ready—or someone else will become available. Maybe it's that Massa won't agree to a one-year deal, whereas Button will?

I personally think Bottas and Massa have been Williams' strongest pair in more than a decade. If they aren't bringing in someone new long-term, I don't see a reason to change.

But I will be glad if we finally get Vandoorne in F1.

Correct.

Massa knows Williams a lot more now than Jenson. It makes no sense to do this replacement. If they want to replace Massa better hire someone really much cheaper and much younger. Not an older and more expensive Button who btw hasn't had a good past 3 seasons not to mention a different engine...

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I do suspect that Perez could be on Ferrari's short list as well (just in case).

That was me, yesterday.

In today's news:

It is rumoured that (Sergio) Perez could move to Ferrari very soon or later this season, taking Kimi Raikkonen’s place,” the report decared.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/567913/Perez_to_replace_Raikkonen_at_Ferrari_in_2017/

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I wonder if it's true, if it's just for the mean time sort of thing until more creditable drivers become available. This must be based ofbkimi anouncing his retirement because I doubt Ferrari would replace him, there's no need so I wonder when this is going to happen lol. I wonder who will drive at FI? Adrian Sutil lol

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Just been thinking more about this and another email my mate sent me a while back about Perez saying he could've signed for Ferrari in 2014 if he didn't leave for mclaren the year before. Perez is also part of Ferrari's accadamy and Ferrari for a while now have wanted to bring someone in like they did with Massa. That and the fact almost all drivers from there accadamy get "loaned" out to sauber just like Perez did so maybe this isn't so crazy after all, the shoe does fit to some degree. After all, you don't have a driver academy without the intention of them actually driving for the team some day do you?

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All what it was on my part, that Perez might be on the list, and not at the bottom of it. He fits into parameters of the hiring equation, but at the end, I think after all will be presented and reasoned to SM, he will stand up, look out of the window, scratch his head, and pull out a name out of the sleeve no one ever heard off, and that will be the guy driving there (assuming it is not Kimi).

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