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Sakae

Silly Season

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My 2017 grid guess:

Mercedes: Hamilton and Rosberg

Ferrari: Vettel and Räikkönen

Red Bull: Ricciardo and Verstappen

Williams: Bottas and Button

Force India: Pérez and Hülkenberg

Toro Rosso: Sainz and...no guess. Gasly's getting dropped. Their F3 guys haven't won races yet, so there's no way. They have to go out-of-program.

McLaren: Alonso and Vandoorne

Haas: Grosjean and Gutiérrez

Renault: Massa and Magnussen

Sauber: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Manor: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

2018 will be the year when it shakes up. Button retires after 2017, as does Räikkönen. Ricciardo leaves Red Bull after 2017. Hamilton goes to NASCAR in 2018. 2017? Not much changing.

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Räikkönen is getting married this summer. I am not sure whether that is relevant with anything, but he just might want to be there, when his boy is still a boy.

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My 2017 grid guess:

Mercedes: Hamilton and Rosberg

Ferrari: Vettel and Räikkönen

Red Bull: Ricciardo and Verstappen

Williams: Bottas and Button

Force India: Pérez and Hülkenberg

Toro Rosso: Sainz and...no guess. Gasly's getting dropped. Their F3 guys haven't won races yet, so there's no way. They have to go out-of-program.

McLaren: Alonso and Vandoorne

Haas: Grosjean and Gutiérrez

Renault: Massa and Magnussen

Sauber: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Manor: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

2018 will be the year when it shakes up. Button retires after 2017, as does Räikkönen. Ricciardo leaves Red Bull after 2017. Hamilton goes to NASCAR in 2018. 2017? Not much changing.

Kvyat is gone and out of the F1?

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Kvyat is gone and out of the F1?

I don't see a space for him, unless he can afford Sauber or Manor. As I mentioned in my other post, the only driver fired by Red Bull who ever raced in F1 again was Liuzzi. Bernoldi, Klien, Speed, Bourdais, Buemi, Alguersuari, and Vergne, once dropped by Red Bull, were never on the grid.

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I don't see a space for him, unless he can afford Sauber or Manor. As I mentioned in my other post, the only driver fired by Red Bull who ever raced in F1 again was Liuzzi. Bernoldi, Klien, Speed, Bourdais, Buemi, Alguersuari, and Vergne, once dropped by Red Bull, were never on the grid.

While factually correct, Kvyat might have next to a political sponsor (a friend of BE), actually a financial sponsor as well. Could be Renault's "lucky" day? Kvyat might have been demoted perhaps too soon, and regardless of RB, given a chance, he could recover (just as Grosjean has). I don't think that Renault is talking to Massa (yet).

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Kvyat got robbed and it's as simple as that. It was a knee jerk reaction from rwsbull so they didn't loose verstappen.

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Kvyat got robbed and it's as simple as that. It was a knee jerk reaction from rwsbull so they didn't loose verstappen.

Kvyat to sauber

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Räikkönen staying is the only thing that makes any sense. The driver lineup is not the problem at Ferrari. If Räikkönen wants to be there (and I think he does), he ought to be.

On Pérez to Ferrari, beyond the fact it was a crappy Internet blog "here's a provocative headline, followed by some speculation, and burying for last what the comments actually meant" post, the thing to remember with him is that he's not really well-regarded in the paddock. His maturity and attitude have always been questioned. At McLaren, Jo Ramírez was very critical of Pérez. During his first year at Force India, Adrián Fernández split with Pérez as his manager and he, too, tore Pérez apart in the media over his attitude. Then, there were the comments about Susie Wolff that were just in terrible taste.

Things like that catch up to you, especially when trying to move into Ferrari. Ferrari is the highest pressure team in all of motor racing (Toro Rosso is second, with their up-or-out policy, and that out is a big out, because I think the only driver STR fired who ever raced in F1 again was Liuzzi...Speed, Bourdais, Buemi, Alguersuari, and Vergne never returned. I could write for days on why that is, but the main thing is that those who come up in the Red Bull Junior Program, which is admittedly not Bourdais but all the others, have zero marketing skills and no network. Their entire careers are funded by Red Bull, so they never have to hustle to attract investors and partners. And their entire careers are contained within Red Bull, so they have few connections elsewhere. And because Red Bull tends to like to market an edgier, brasher image, you can actually get media and sponsor training from Red Bull that alienates all other sponsors. Plus, Red Bull mandates you keep Red Bull on your helmet for $0.00 for THREE YEARS after you are dropped from the program, so you can't sell any helmet sponsorship to anyone else, which really hurts your ability to raise money through personal sponsorship. It's a high-risk program to be part of. If you fail, you'll never race in F1). The higher the pressure, the more your maturity, attitude, and poise in the media matter. And when people like Ramírez and Fernández, who both know Pérez very well and are greatly respected, have nothing nice to say at all about the guy, that's just not someone I see succeeding in a high-pressure environment like Ferrari.

Which is all a big shame, I have to say. I really like Checo's family (they were part of our broadcast team here in the United States on Univision Deportes), and I loved his aggressive driving against Button at McLaren. But it's hard to support him.

Perez isn't going to Ferrari. I've never felt it. He didn't handle being at McLaren too well, why on earth could he handle Ferrari, the Tiffosi, the Italian media? No chance. And sponsorship money doesn't work with Ferrari unless they are Santander or a huge title sponsor whose going to stick around for years. Even then, that didn't save Alonso.

Massa, that's interesting info about Perez. I guess because I haven't paid much attention to him since he was booted from McLaren, he hasnt' bothered me that much, but I've never warmed to him, and his incidents with Kimi and his arrogant attitude, just made me like him less. He's a good bad example of the younger guys who never admit they have done wrong. Just like Kvyat and Max. However I see Sainz as a driver who would not have a problem admitting if he made a mistake.

As far as the Red Bull young driver program, yes it's totally cut throat but they aren't there to give away free money either. These kids get a better ride than most. It's their lack of foresight in a way that when they come out the other end of Red Bull they don't know what to do, or how to progress. Brendan Hartley was touted years ago as a future F1 driver and I don't remember if he left Red Bull or they let him go all together.

Liuzzi's crack at F1 was a big of mixed bag. Being forced to co-share a seat with Klein was a joke. They were both decent drivers, but that decision was just stupid lol. I think Luizzi made it back into F1 because he tried for so long to make it back. But he came back with HRT which was doomed at the start. The other Red Bull drivers once dropped found other forms of motor racing relatively soon. He may remain the anomaly I think for awhile, unless Kvyat comes up with massive sponsor money. Maybe Uncle Putin will say a kind word for him.

As for the 2017 grid, for starters Massa has been talking way too much about non F1 motor racing. That's a big clue he's not going to be at Williams next year, or in F1 anymore. He may be as good as Bottas, but he's alot older, and thus Bottas may have the potential to get better. I doubt it, but it's a possibility. Massa has gone as far as he will go in F1. Interesting you think he might end up at Renault though.

- I'm excited for Button if he goes to Williams.

- McLaren will bring in Stoffel. They have to seeing as how Max has done pretty well.

- Force India really are a weird team. They should rebrand/rename and get rid of references to India and their dodgy owner.

- Kvyat might last another year. STR have at times given their drivers another year, when all the chatter was of them being let go. They still let those drivers, just a year later lol. If not, maybe they will poach. Not sure though. Not like they can nab Wehrlein. Maybe something out of the box. STR have done it before. Rossi maybe?

- I think both seats at Sauber are up for grabs. I really hate this team now. And it's sad because I've followed them since Kimi drove for them. But Monisha... she's ruined it. Bad choice Peter, bad bad bad.

- Renault won't keep Palmer. And is Mag safe? They clearly want Alonso back, but he'll keep on hoping and holding out for a Merc or Red Bull ride until he retires, and he's now said if 2017 isn't fun, he's gone. No more Emporer. I'm crying invisible tears!

- Haas, I think Gutiérrez is safe. Not sure why I think that, but maybe he's a bridge to Ferrari or something. But I also am not sure he will drive for Ferrari ever anyway. And GRO, what is he doing toying with driving in Nascar? Over F1 already, or does he have an inkling he might not have a seat for long.

- Manor... does anyone care!? Can you hear me!? Is there anyone home!!!

A big what if... Arrive has given indication Kimi will stay at Ferrari for 2017. What if he also stayed there in 2018!? Along way off, but Ferrari don't tend to chop and change every year. Maybe the driver they want to replace him, might still be on contract until 2019 or something. At anyway. If Kimi stays for 2017, awesome!

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Alonso is back in the news, that if he finds 2017 "boring", he will leave the F1. As an TP, I would shy away from a such demotivated driver. Renault will not pay a top draw driver until their performance shall rise to the consistent level of a legitimate contender for the podium, something which they predict will happen rather later, than sooner.

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Sakae, I think Renault would pay whatever to get Alonso back. I think they are so far behind car wise, it won't matter anyway. And it's been shown I think pretty clearly now that Alonso isn't the God of car development he once so famously said as to what he brought to a team.

I agree, when has Alonso shown some real passion? It's all been doom and gloom and hilarious memes for a couple of years now. The Emperor is aging, his heart just isn't in it. And he's made some questionable decisions throughout his career. Off to WEC? Le Mans for sure, IndyCar to try and win the Indy 500 perhaps? Nascar? I doubt it.

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Sakae, I think Renault would pay whatever to get Alonso back. I think they are so far behind car wise, it won't matter anyway. And it's been shown I think pretty clearly now that Alonso isn't the God of car development he once so famously said as to what he brought to a team.

I agree, when has Alonso shown some real passion? It's all been doom and gloom and hilarious memes for a couple of years now. The Emperor is aging, his heart just isn't in it. And he's made some questionable decisions throughout his career. Off to WEC? Le Mans for sure, IndyCar to try and win the Indy 500 perhaps? Nascar? I doubt it.

The strategy pertaining to choice of drivers was commented on in very pragmatic terms by Frederic Vasseur. I have no idea whether they would like to have Alonso back in this moment, but at the same time do you really want pay someone huge sums of money for a car that is merely good for catching a point here or there? I would choose someone who is hungry, but patient, and motivates the team. Vasseur is nobody's fool, and he understands team's situation well. They may love Alonso, but would he fit in? I doubt that.

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The sponsorship will have little to do with it monkey as he is a Ferrari academy driver on "loan" anyway.

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It looks like Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso all remain to anchor their respective teams. They are the three best drivers in F1 (still), have multi-year contracts, and don't have a better place available to move to. Obviously Verstappen has been secured at Red Bull. This leaves on the market Rosberg (betting he will stay), DR (betting he will stay), Kimi (pretty sure he is going) and Button (he is probably going). The rest of the seats are probably up in the air until the four big teams have settled.

The interesting option is the Renault team, which is not showing much now, but as the engine improve could come back to being a race winner. Can they draw a big name driver to them?

I agree that Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are the three best (overall) drivers around and that they are going to stay. I also agree that Kimi is not going to be with Ferrari in F1 next year, there's even someone (with very strong ties at Maranello) suggesting that he won't see the end of this season, and possibly not even the summer break, I don't know what to make of that but I gather that at Maranello they have lost any hope, their car is very much like Kimi wants it yet Vettel had the upper hand (and if it wasn't for the usual Ferrari blunders he would be significantly ahead in the WDC standings), the problem that Ferrari is facing is who is going to get Kimi's seat and when. the names seems to be:

- Ricciardo, apparently they like him but I fear that this is similar to the rumour of Bottas moving to Ferrari, it's a rumour created by people outside of Ferrari and the problem seem to be that RBR won't let him go very easily (they need him, IMHO he's their only hope of winning the WDC any time soon) and the fact that in any case he wouldn't be available before next year;

- Rosberg, although Hamiltom is a much more talented driver when Rosberg has been allowed to race him he has repeatedly shown that he can beat his team mate, and that he can do that race in race out, so he'll have to leave Mercedes, he has become a liability for them, Hamilton has won 2 WDCs with such an open help from the team and team orders that I find it difficult that they will allow this situation to go on, it would be bordering on a farce if that was to happen for a third year in a row (and I presume that they will find something that will allow Hamilton to win the WDC this season while trying to keep up appearances). The problem for Rosberg is that he's not getting any younger, he's not the most talented driver but he's not a back up driver either, he doesn't have the right image for today's F1 and he's German (same as Vettel, and it wouldn't make much sense for Ferrari to have two German drivers). I really can't see what could happen to him next year

- Perez, he's seriously good, he has matured a lot in the last few years and has learnt from his mistakes, which makes him a very tough proposition as IMHO he could be very very competitive with Vettel. His strong point could be that he could quite easily be allowed to jump ship during the summer break, Force India might want some money but that shouldn't be a major issue

- Sainz, I gather that he has a lot of fans at Maranello, my understanding is that among these four drivers he's the one with the strongest backing, the problem is that he's very young and that Ferrari doesn't do young drivers, and that he hasn't yet achieved the podium finish that would "allow" Ferrari to take a gamble on such a youngster

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Interesting, Publius. So, who is that mysterious man destined to drive Ferrari? Perez was the name I heard will be on the move, but as we all know, F1 media are notoriously unreliable. I am slightly confused about the claims that two Germans in one team is NO-NO. I can't remember any similar "concerns" when JB and LH were team-mates at McLaren.

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Interesting, Publius. So, who is that mysterious man destined to drive Ferrari? Perez was the name I heard will be on the move, but as we all know, F1 media are notoriously unreliable. I am slightly confused about the claims that two Germans in one team is NO-NO. I can't remember any similar "concerns" when JB and LH were team-mates at McLaren.

McLaren is a British team and at the time had British sponsors and so 2 British drivers were seen as ok, Ferrari is an Italian team, with international sponsors and two drivers of the same nationality (be that German, Italian, British or whatever) is seen as a problem by them

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http://www.grandprix...imi-at-ferrari/

Gro, you and other 19 to 24 people. Good luck anyway. I think you would fit in well.

it looks as if I forgot Grosjean when I wrote my list... good luck to him, he's a good driver and seemingly a nice guy (as the other four in my list seem to be), IMHO they would all deserve a chance at Ferrari, pity only one can have his dream fulfilled, I really wish all the best for all of them

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I am hoping to be forgiven for minor indiscretion, and using this thread for totally disassociated topic, but since many visit in here, maybe I could hit a jackpot and get some brainy guy to give a shot. Question is, would anyone know how to insert a formatted spreadsheet or a table into a post? Sometimes people tossing things around, yet when you tabulate data for comparative analysis, that puts any discussion on a different level. I've experimented with several variants (I know about), and felt on my face with terrible results. BTW, I use Mac, but among other things I have also MS Word and Excel for Mac, PDF, etc. I haven't tried to create Keynote image, and insert that; it seemed as too much work...

Thanks for consideration.

S.

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I still say - No way Perez to Ferrari. His driving style and crashaholicness would not be acceptable to Ferrari. No bad boys allowed in Ferrari - full stop.

Dan will go to Ferrari and kick Vettel's behind again checkit.gif

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No no, Vettel had so many issues in 2014 remember? Even though dan drove the same car that would've started development the previous year why he was still at toro Rosso. And redbull wouldn't have built the car more so to suit sebs style than dans because 4 titles mean nothing, fairness with a driver who just joined a team is. Lmao see how rediculous these excuses for Vettel sound when you don't use common sense? We know the answer "radical" but I fear many refused to. And if it happens again, Seb would've had another year of terrible luck. Not for one second do I underestimate Seb and he made the most of the blown diffuser era so he deserves the results but I still feel people underate dan as excuses and failure to simply accept defeat is what stands in the way.

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It seems that this story never gets old for some people interested to keep DR's options alive. It should, even as I doubt it, put end to widespread speculation how much veto power on hiring Vettel has at Ferrari, or wishes to block because of his alledged fear of competition.

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No no, Vettel had so many issues in 2014 remember? Even though dan drove the same car that would've started development the previous year why he was still at toro Rosso. And redbull wouldn't have built the car more so to suit sebs style than dans because 4 titles mean nothing, fairness with a driver who just joined a team is. Lmao see how rediculous these excuses for Vettel sound when you don't use common sense? We know the answer "radical" but I fear many refused to. And if it happens again, Seb would've had another year of terrible luck. Not for one second do I underestimate Seb and he made the most of the blown diffuser era so he deserves the results but I still feel people underate dan as excuses and failure to simply accept defeat is what stands in the way.

Seb lost to Dan imo. Dan was really faster than him then.

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