Sakae

Silly Season

749 posts in this topic

Vergne like Buemi and alguersuari before him got the rough end of the stick simply because they didn't fit in the team in a marketing sense, results were fine but they seemed not enough "out there" personality wise and that seems to be Redbull's number one selling point.

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A lot of suppositions in one post, Emmcee, and I don't see it the same way.

Well your making a lot of assumptions that seem to be false or incorrect, to say Ricciardo doesn't care for the legacy of enzo when I've heard him say himself a few times that he would love to drive for them. If he did and he did well, the Italians would eat him up and try call him one of there own as apparently they do already back in Italy his father said in a recent interview. Seb has also said he wanted to emulate schumi and I see that as more of a draw card for him than Ferrari in general like it is with Ricciardo.

Edited by Emmcee

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Räikkönen won't go to Haas because they can't afford him. Grosjean brought some sponsorship this year and Gutiérrez obviously paid in full.

Plus, there's the logical issue. If Räikkönen is going to Haas, that necessarily means Grosjean is out, as they need at least one seat funded. Giving up on Grosjean would make little sense when the team already knows him and has his data. The only way Grosjean is out is if Grosjean is going to Ferrari. But if Räikkönen is going to Haas, Räikkönen wants to be in F1 in 2017, and if Räikkönen wants to be in F1, why would Ferrari choose Grosjean over him?

Certainly possible if he performs at a high level this season.

Kimi wants to stick around for another couple of years. And if he's performing as well as he is right now as well as from the back end of 2015 I see no reason for Ferrari to drop him. Getting in GRO as a replacement makes no sense at all unless Kimi is retiring. Ferrari are a desired team in F1. I think they can do better than GRO if or when Kimi goes.

I still can't see GRO at Ferrari. As for Bottas, his fortunes co-incided with the Williams being a good car, but it was only for the first part of 2014, and then they fell behind. Thus I think maybe it wasn't even really Bottas that was shining, rather that Williams had a good car, but couldn't develop it much and the other teams caught up. Bottas is done. He doesn't have the racecraft in my view. And more importantly, is he a better driver than he was 2-3 years ago? If anything he's the same, but I see no improvements. GRO on the other hand has improved when you go back to his banzai crash days.

The Hulk is done too. Williams might be as good a seat as he can get if or when Force India folds. Mallya is a scam artist, so it's only a matter of time before the team goes under or is sold.

Nico to Ferrari I can get behind. He doesn't bleed Ferrari like Vettel and I don't think he puts in the amount of off track work that Vettel does, but who knows maybe he might go there. I don't think so though. I think Merc will re-sign him. Hamilton I don't trust. I don't like him either and I've not shied away from that. But I don't think Ferrari would hire him. Certainly not so close to Alonso having left. They would not tollerate his off track antics, nor what he says to the media when he's having a winge or a whatever. This is Ferrari and some ways definately equal to Ron Dennis' famously run McLaren years.

So it might be Ricci. Even Vettel has said he'd be cool with that, and those two are actually quite good friends. Webber almost and should have gone to Ferrari but chickened out.

At any rate, I think Merc will retain both drivers for next year and also Ferrari.

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Yeah I can't see rosberg at Ferrari either, you think hulk has missed his chance? You don't think he will ever get a fair crack? I also think him being a tad taller cost him the Mclaren seat to Magnussen aswell. I could see grosjean at Ferrari but let's just say kimi left or whatever, who do you they would pick out of Ricciardo and grosjean? As grosjean would now have links to Ferrari through haas but Ricciardo is faster out of the two. I also think Ferrari at this stage should retain there lineup, strongest pair in the field ATM. I also think merc will keep rosberg on for one more year alongside Lewis. I thought webber was stupid not to take the Ferrari deal at first but he explained why he didn't. He said at his age what Porsche offered him was more security and a high position in the team while he would've probably at best had a year or two left on him anyway and Ferrari would most likely only sign a small contract so in the long term Porsche was a way better option. He said he didn't want to go on for 12-24 months and end up in a similar position but this time with less options available . He also said he would rather a Porsche in his driveway anyday over a Ferrari.

Edited by Emmcee

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Webber should have gone to Ferrari. Reasons or not, I think in later years he will look back on that and probably regret it.

Ricci over Gro for sure. Having links to a team is no quick route into it. Look at all the Sauber drivers who have not gone to Ferrari. STR use Ferrari engines. Maybe Max might have a shot, but I seriously seriously doubt it. RBR have him locked down and if the rumours are true, will bump Kvyat and promote Max to RBR to keep him under contract. But the Verstappens are pretty money grubby if you ask me and both seem to lack class.

It could be an out of left pic too. Perez, Guitierrez I think might have a shot just as good as Gro.

We are only talking about Gro because he drives for Haas, not because he's been lighting it up for years. Simply put, be it a B team or a team using their engines, it really means nothing at the end of the day. Arrivabene is going to pick who they feel is best for the team.

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Well I've said it before but the obvious replacement was going to be bianchi wasn't it? That one is atleast obvious.

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Yes and no. He was good, but it was his passing that made people think he was suddenly a champion in waiting.

Same goes with Kubica. He may have turned out to be just a Heidfeld, Fisi, Hulk, Trulli type of driver. But is still talked about as some sort of champion.

I don't know if Bianchi would have been a shoe in. You have to factor in the whole changing of hte guard at Ferrari from the top down. They might not have even been interested other than in a B team or as a test driver.

And being a test driver nowdays means jack sh|t sadly. I means nothing.

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Yeah you could be right, see drivers like trulli,fisi and such were hyped up because of how well they did in the lower categories and they had speed, just a shame it wasn't consistent enough as for being a test driver it's like saying "good but

Not quite good enough". I mentioned bianchi as I feel it's time Ferrari promoted someone from within again than relying on outside talent such as Vettel to bring them the results. You rekon Ferrari have a contract ready for schumi jr yet? As I beleive he will end up at Ferrari or Mercedes or loaned out to a team with there engine.

Edited by Emmcee

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I think the biggest factor in the 2017 grid, beyond potential retirements of Räikkönen or Alonso or Button, is what happens to Force India. Hülkenberg, I suspect, will be off to the WEC full-time—his comments imply as much, and for whatever reason, teams haven't been very interested in filling openings with him (and, to be fair, he's not been that brilliant for Force India. Good, but no better than Pérez in the whole). Pérez, however, will shake up the grid in the sense that he brings a ton of funding (Telcel/Telmex, Quaker State's Mexican subsidiary, etc.) Someone will want him—still young, able to steal a podium in the right car, good at making the strategy work, well-funded. So, the collapse of Force India would displace someone, in my view.

Another variable: Vandoorne. There won't be room at McLaren, and Vandoorne might know that he can do better than McLaren. If Verstappen is moving up, and I am sure he is, Red Bull needs to make Vandoorne a big offer at Toro Rosso. Or Ferrari needs to get Vandoorne in at Haas/Sauber (Alfa Romeo?). Or Mercedes needs to get Vandoorne into Manor. Someone, somewhere has to create space for this guy. Unless Force India's savior is an ART-Honda team (it isn't; if ART were going to join F1, they would've done it the other 17 times they were supposed to, in my view).

My guess, for now: no change at Mercedes, Ferrari, or McLaren. Kvyat and Verstappen at Red Bull with Ricciardo replacing Bottas at Williams. Bottas exits the grid and becomes the new Paul di Resta or whomever—the guy who was kind of good, but not good enough to be here on merit, and not funded enough to be here on cash. If Pierre Gasly does not win the GP2 title, STR goes outside the Red Bull-backed drivers for the first time since the whole Sébastien Bourdais thing. I still insist Vandoorne make a move out of McLaren. Haas goes unchanged. Force India and Sauber depend entirely on what they become. I figure Renault turns into a capable pairing of Magnussen and Pérez—ending once and for all the vicious debate between Emmcee and myself over who was the better McLaren driver. :P Wehrlein will do another year in Manor alongside whoever can pay for Wehrlein to do that.

I'll be wrong.

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Good post as always massa and I agree with almost all of it. I see Ferrari keeping there lineup offering kimi a one year deal. Mercedes will keep there lineup offering rosberg a one year deal. Mclaren will keep alonso and brig in vandoorne while button is of to Williams, I say button to Williams because he said after the contract issue back in the day with Williams and Benetton that he would love to return Williams and I think next year he could possibly do that. Redbull will keep Ricciardo and promote Verstappen and send kvyat back to TR, has kvyat got the results like others in the past to maintain his Redbull seat? I beleive so and I beleive more are in the way but he is in the way of a progressing super quick driver and that will always have priority I also hope Ricciardo isn't as stupid as the other Aussie we had to leave Redbull/Jaguar for Williams to try emulate Alan jones and turn down an offer for a team with a car capable of winning races. There's so many possibilities of a massive a shakeup to get excited about but from situations like this in the past, you get all excited over nothing as sweet FA changes and it would probably be the same next season lol.

Drivers are also developing different now days to even 10 years ago. Tbh we have quite a few real good and possibly successful drivers out there ATM but in the last decade we have seen an influx of younger drivers already well established compared to drivers a few years older. These older drivers or drivers who have been there abit longer now take longer to blossom basically as the chances to do that before weren't easy to do. Look at grosjean, taken years to develop to IMO become one of the most sort after men on the grid, then you have someone like Verstappen, fast already and this now shuffles drivers like grosjean and hulk further back, yeah there still quick but there old news now therefore the support isn't the same like it is for someone like Verstappen who has every door open along the way. From what I've learnt in the past is that f1 always goes through a "flavour of the month" sort of scenario when it comes to drivers and teams, Verstappen is the flavour of the month ATM. Let's look at Verstappen, my God is he quick and that pace is consistant to but he is still so young and has a massive chip on his shoulder. 17/18 yr old kids are c0cky enough as it is, thinking there tough and there sh17 doesn't stink now imagine that mixed with the attitude of a young hot headed f1 driver, recipe for disaster. If he is willing to shutup and listen and not waste this talent, he has the possibility of becoming one of the sports all time greats but we have seen in Melbourne this year and after Monaco last year that he has a massive ego issue (quite similar to Lewis in some aspects) and needs to be brought down a peg or two, to say you couldn't care about what the team has asked you to do, the team who got you in f1, who pays you and allows you to live this ultra rare lifestyle, I lost everything I had left for this kid, yeah his fast but if I was at TR then, I would've fired him. If he wants to treat the team like a "normal" team, I would've treated him like a "normal" driver, sack him and make him come crawling back with a complete attitude overhaul. His father also doesn't help but what do expect from a family who were a bunch of gypsies. I've got quite a funny story about the Verstappen family this 60yr Dutch bloke I used to work with told me.

Edited by Emmcee

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I was sure Kimi said he had a contract for next year too, and thus wasn't worried as he expected it to be honoured. I wonder if it's a +1 year or extension and not a guarantee to drive?

If Arrivabene said that I'm disappointed. Ferrari and RBR are nowhere near Merc at present and it's been Merc who have been doing this misinformation scam claiming the other teams are right on their heels and they will need to push blah blah blah. Nico broke ranks and said it's about time to stop saying the other teams are close, when in his words they have opened up a gap and it wasn't even close anymore.

Even if Kimi has qualified one position up, he could not have beaten the Mercs. He truly did get the maximum as we so often hear and got 3rd. The ONLY way they are beating the Mercs if they break down. I hope this is a misquote or someone playing with his words because that isn't positive from Arrivabene when Kimi did very well in the race.

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No kimi only has 2016 as Ferrari only signed a one year deal, as for the race, he would've finished 3rd even if he started 1st or 2nd, he wasn't fast enough for anything higher than he got, he was lucky he found some speed to get by Bottas when he did or he would've been stuck.

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Then it must be an option year then because I know Kimi said he had a contract. Obviously contracts can be broken. It find it strange yet again that at race #4 going into the Euro races we are talking about Kimi being replaced. What countries media continues this campaign I wonder? Who has the most to gain? Maybe that's the clue.

The only mistake Kimi made in the race was being mugged by Hamilton after the restart. He got past Bottas and pulled away thus locking in 3rd. So if Arrivabene is bummed out because Kimi went in a bit deep on one corner of the entire race and got creamed by a far faster and superior car in Hamilton, that's a rough deal. He was NEVER going to beat the Mercs even if he was on Pole.

Pole position means nothing to any team now, because I would wager that even in Monaco, if the Mercs were starting 3rd and 4th they'd still win.

Pole used to mean something, now to me it doesn't. In the past it meant a car was going to be super in the race. Now it just means the Merc drivers didn't get it quite right on their Q laps, but in the race have so much extra speed and pace that within a few corners they'll have the lead anyway.

Thus the only real competitor to Merc is their own reliability. If they are realiable, they murder the opposition.

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Yeah I agree bro, you used to get excited back in the schumi days after qualifying and couldn't wait for the race. The last time I've honestly felt excited about formula one, goes back to probably 1998.

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Exactly. That excitement is genuienly gone now. During the RBR days, at least McLaren and Ferrari were a real threat. It would go down to the last race and you didn't know who was going to win.

Now it's so predicatable. RBR was never predicatable, even when Vettel was smashing it.

The Mercs are so dominant they are winning races whilst at the same time experiencing car component failures. What's next, they'll be winning races on 3 wheels.

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Yeah man IMO reguardless of who is against the rules changes next year, it has to come from the top and overrule everyone. They do that on other issues that are far less serious so why not apply the strong arm on this very serious issue. Mercedes knows if the rules go away from the current engine related ones and move onto aero, that they won't have the same advantage in the aero department as the likes of redbull and Mclaren, where as a champion team who has had success for a few years now should be able to "buy" the best staff and challenge new regulations head on, if you have invested in the team wisely while making all that money while being at the top, rule changes shouldn't be an issue should they? Shows money might be going elsewhere than otherwise intended maybe. I expect Redbull to be at the front next year as newey is the best in exploiting new rules and finding loop holes. He did it at Mclaren after the 98 shakeup, Redbull after the big shakeup of 2009, and even in the turbo era he has succeeded aswell producing still the best chassis but when it's engine regulations that now make the sport, there's only so much aero can do if the power isn't sufficient to back it up. Like Schumacher has always said, aero is always miles ahead of engine development, it's just the engine and tyres that restrict it.

Edited by Emmcee

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Bernie needs to be a dictator again. We need Max back. I can't believe I'm saying this but we need it. Todt is toothless. He might be brilliant but he's been to invisible on far too many of this Engine BS.

The 2017 rules shakeup is a ruse. It will be skittled down to nothing. Just like all ideas that are presented. If anyone's noticed, most if not all the proposed things for the following years get axed big time.

Merc don't want anything to change, and Toto the retard is now saying the 2017 rules might not be safe. Oh dear!

And when it came to engine changes, he was there again all concerned of course for the little teams because it would increase costs or open up a spending war.

This knob only cares about one thing. Merc winning. Which is his job, but surely he can see the benefit of Merc winning against real competition, not rockets competing against go-karts.

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Gro going to Ferrari only ever existed in his head and dreams. I honestly could not see it ever happening.

I'd say at least one of the Haas seats and one of the Renaults are up for grabs. Gro and KMag for another year at least.

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Gro going to Ferrari only ever existed in his head and dreams. I honestly could not see it ever happening.

I'd say at least one of the Haas seats and one of the Renaults are up for grabs. Gro and KMag for another year at least.

Agree. That NASCAR thing could be only a publicity stunt, and/or ground work for 2018 for him.

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Hmmm........

Kimi wil blow hot and cold in any car he drives - he's a street fighter - consistency is not his thing. Ferrari need two drivers on the podium every race to take that crown. He's not that guy. Button, DR and probably Bottas are. Marchionne will call that one. KR could go to Renault, Haas, Alfa Romeo [if it happens] or the nearest bar. I understand Button has an option at Williams for 2017. This is hearsay but from an impeccable source. The thing is, Ron D recently said Jens would leave McLaren when he wanted to. He won't be pushed. Vandoorne looks excellent - so far but look what happened to Perez and Magnussen. There is stuff in data we don't hear about - these guys know what they are doing and Jenson get better as he gets older. Alonso realises he has wasted the best part of a decade trying to bring Ferrari back to life after Schuey and kick some life into Honda. Well, he hasn't much to show for it and I think the Emperor needs new clothes which means, if this Honda doesn't make radical progress, he'll be doing something else.

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Could we see Rosberg next to Vettel in the future? His contract is for renewal, and should he feel wronged this year, he might not sign an extension.

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Gro going to Ferrari only ever existed in his head and dreams. I honestly could not see it ever happening.

I'd say at least one of the Haas seats and one of the Renaults are up for grabs. Gro and KMag for another year at least.

Ferrari signed Irvine and IMO grosjean is a much better driver.

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Hmmm........

Kimi wil blow hot and cold in any car he drives - he's a street fighter - consistency is not his thing. Ferrari need two drivers on the podium every race to take that crown. He's not that guy. Button, DR and probably Bottas are. Marchionne will call that one. KR could go to Renault, Haas, Alfa Romeo [if it happens] or the nearest bar. I understand Button has an option at Williams for 2017. This is hearsay but from an impeccable source. The thing is, Ron D recently said Jens would leave McLaren when he wanted to. He won't be pushed. Vandoorne looks excellent - so far but look what happened to Perez and Magnussen. There is stuff in data we don't hear about - these guys know what they are doing and Jenson get better as he gets older. Alonso realises he has wasted the best part of a decade trying to bring Ferrari back to life after Schuey and kick some life into Honda. Well, he hasn't much to show for it and I think the Emperor needs new clothes which means, if this Honda doesn't make radical progress, he'll be doing something else.

That's exactly right and one thing you said there that EVERYONE here should read, things go on we don't know, thata the point I've been trying to get across but they beleive what they read over what people say when they have no ideas of who this person knows or what they do.

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