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Emmcee

What If?

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I was thinking about Felipe Massa's accident in 2009 and the real possibility of Michael Schumacher making a return at the Italian GP that year to replace him. It was almost certain that they made "schumi 09 comeback" caps for sale at the Italian race that year. If Schumacher didn't have the neck injury from a motorcycle fall and did indeed take felipe's seat, do you think Felipe would have got it back? I beleive if Schumacher was medically fit, his comeback would've started then instead of 2010 with Mercedes and it could've been a whole different result in the end but it certainly got me thinking that massa could've been long gone from the sport if Schumacher did comeback then. Then you think about alonso and where he would've been because I rekon they would've kept kimi as he keeps to himself like Michael, fernando would be the type to try compare data and setups and schumi only likes that if he can do it and not vice versa. That neck injury schumi got literally changed the way the sport went in terms of who drive for who for the next 5 years IMO, let alone the results. what do you think about it?

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Ferrari had moved on from Schumacher, he would have been exactly what he was asked, a stand in driver.

Would they have signed him on for the next season? No, I dont think so, when he was unsure about committing to '07 and beyond, Ferrari replaced him before he had decided to retire, effectively leaving him no other real option, funnily enough it was almost exactly the same circumstance when his Mercedes deal went up for renewal, Michael wanted time to think, Mercedes got the jitters and signed Hamilton, leaving Schumacher out in the cold again.

I think Michael would have eventually signed on for another season or two, and he did later lament not doing so, there was a sense of unfinished business that he didn't win in a Mercedes, and had he stayed that extra year or two he may well have added a few more, possibly even a tilt at the 2014 title.

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Well they did sign him on an advisory roll so I disagree about them moving on from Schumacher as obviously they rated his experience very high to offer him that role. I think the reason kimi was signed was because Michael didn't give them an answer on time when I'm the past he always would so I think Ferrari senses what was coming, it was the topic in the paddock almost all season. As for staying at merc and possibly winning, I beleive he could've and I also wished he stayed, age has nothing to do with it as mansell and Prost won a title at 39.

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Schumacher's comeback was a mistake. Should've left while at the top, as in his first run. Only proved that, if not in such an amazing car/team, things might've not been so easy. And yes, he would have won again if he stayed at Mercedes, because of the car they have right now, but well, a lot of people would tbh.

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Yeah Kati but don't you think today's succes at Mercedes is down to the foundation work Schumacher and rosberg did? I certainly beleive so and I honestly don't think he was really any different when he came back. There was a hell of a lot of chassis work to be done to find a balance to suit and find schumachers speed again and also help rosberg. That was the main issue I beleive, but towards the end of his 3 year stint, the speed was becoming to come back. When he tested the Ferrari in 2009 as a replacement for massa, he was driving a 2009 Ferrari with 2006 aero and was 5 tenths a second faster than massa in the same test a few weeks earlier in better conditions. He never lost the pace it's was just the 2006 chassis and 09/10 chassis were at opposite ends of the spectrum and just took a while to adapt, took Vettel a season with this round of regs and he didn't even sit a year out let alone 3. Like David coulthard said " you never loose your speed, just your degree of commitment" and I understand and agree 100% with that.

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Yeah Kati but don't you think today's succes at Mercedes is down to the foundation work Schumacher and rosberg did? I certainly beleive so and I honestly don't think he was really any different when he came back. There was a hell of a lot of chassis work to be done to find a balance to suit and find schumachers speed again and also help rosberg. That was the main issue I beleive, but towards the end of his 3 year stint, the speed was becoming to come back. When he tested the Ferrari in 2009 as a replacement for massa, he was driving a 2009 Ferrari with 2006 aero and was 5 tenths a second faster than massa in the same test a few weeks earlier in better conditions. He never lost the pace it's was just the 2006 chassis and 09/10 chassis were at opposite ends of the spectrum and just took a while to adapt, took Vettel a season with this round of regs and he didn't even sit a year out let alone 3. Like David coulthard said " you never loose your speed, just your degree of commitment" and I understand and agree 100% with that.

i don't think he was any different when he came back. The difference is that Ferrari had built a whole team around Schumacher, and was already well established. Now for him (his career, his name, his ego, his fans) it would've been better not to come back. However, for him (his pocket, his sponsors, Mercedes, for TV rights) it was great for him to comeback. personally I wouldn;t have in his situation. Now, what I think he has brought into Mercedes is the team knowhow he got from Ferrari - not that they would be in any trouble without him, they got a great team. Rosberg and Lewis are way more responsible for this than Michael tho.

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Schumacher built Ferrari, he lured the right mechanics and personnel he knew could get the job done for him over to Ferrari. So Ferrari didn't build the team around Schumacher, he built them around himself and we haven't seen a driver since who can rally a whole team together like him they were in need of serious help when he arrived, he single handedly brought them back, took time but became the most dominant era ever. Schumacher joins Mercedes and that alone with Ross brawn would've built the foundation needed, who to put where, what to do next. Lewis more so than nico is taking the cake, least nico IMO deserves the success more after being there from day one.

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A couple things to remember:

(1) The #1 seat at Ferrari is never truly up for grabs. Ferrari always signs drivers to pre-agreements years in advance. And while those agreements to agree do not necessarily have to come to fruition, they still evidence that Ferrari always has a plan with the top ride (and sometimes the #2 ride, though not always).

Räikkönen first signed something with Ferrari in 2004. Which is why, in 2006, Schumacher retired knowing that either he or Massa had to go. It was not that Schumacher retired and Ferrari then did a search and settled on Räikkönen. Räikkönen was always the guy to join Ferrari in 2007 since 2004, and you can go dig through archives of F1 rumors from 2004 suggesting Räikkönen would be at Ferrari in 2007.

I am pretty sure Alonso signed with Ferrari well before Massa's injury, too—I think he even signed in 2008 for 2010, which led to a year of rumors about him maybe going somewhere else in 2009 (Honda, Toyota, BMW...of course, there was no Honda to go to, but I distinctly remember the Honda for 09 and Ferrari in 10 rumors, which tells you how early in 08 it was known). One of Massa or Räikkönen already had to go.

Vettel signed something years in advance, too—another case of Alonso or Räikkönen having to leave to make room, not a case of them signing Vettel to replace a departed driver.

So, I'm not sure how Schumacher could have signed with Ferrari for 2010. The team already had three 2010 drivers: Alonso, Räikkönen, and Massa. It had to get rid of one, not add one.

(2) Would Schumacher have had a very successful comeback? I doubt it. The 2009 Ferrari was not a good car. It won at Spa, true, but it only did so because it had KERS and Fisichella's Force India did not. In general, 2009 was a bad year for Ferrari, and neither Badoer nor Fisichella scored a single point in the car. Would Schumacher have scored? Maybe. He was better than Badoer in the sense he had more recent racing experience, and was obviously a better driver, but he was worse off for the fact he hadn't really driven a 2009-spec (major rules changes from when he had left F1 in 2006) F1 car, whereas Badoer had tested the F2009 some. And he was better than Fisichella in the sense that he was a better driver, but he was worse off for the fact that Fisichella had been racing continuously since Schumacher's retirement, including in a 2009-spec car (albeit one without KERS, as noted earlier).

So, if Badoer and Fisichella stepped in and failed to even score a point, I don't see how Schumacher would've stepped in and done better than Räikkönen. And because Massa was ahead of Räikkönen in 2008 and ahead of him again in 2009 before the injury, and because it was Räikkönen being forced out for Alonso, I'm not sure why Ferrari would take Schumacher over Massa to partner Alonso unless Schumacher conclusively beat Räikkönen. Which no substitute driver was doing in 2009.

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A couple things to remember:

(1) The #1 seat at Ferrari is never truly up for grabs. Ferrari always signs drivers to pre-agreements years in advance. And while those agreements to agree do not necessarily have to come to fruition, they still evidence that Ferrari always has a plan with the top ride (and sometimes the #2 ride, though not always).

Räikkönen first signed something with Ferrari in 2004. Which is why, in 2006, Schumacher retired knowing that either he or Massa had to go. It was not that Schumacher retired and Ferrari then did a search and settled on Räikkönen. Räikkönen was always the guy to join Ferrari in 2007 since 2004, and you can go dig through archives of F1 rumors from 2004 suggesting Räikkönen would be at Ferrari in 2007.

I am pretty sure Alonso signed with Ferrari well before Massa's injury, too—I think he even signed in 2008 for 2010, which led to a year of rumors about him maybe going somewhere else in 2009 (Honda, Toyota, BMW...of course, there was no Honda to go to, but I distinctly remember the Honda for 09 and Ferrari in 10 rumors, which tells you how early in 08 it was known). One of Massa or Räikkönen already had to go.

Vettel signed something years in advance, too—another case of Alonso or Räikkönen having to leave to make room, not a case of them signing Vettel to replace a departed driver.

So, I'm not sure how Schumacher could have signed with Ferrari for 2010. The team already had three 2010 drivers: Alonso, Räikkönen, and Massa. It had to get rid of one, not add one.

(2) Would Schumacher have had a very successful comeback? I doubt it. The 2009 Ferrari was not a good car. It won at Spa, true, but it only did so because it had KERS and Fisichella's Force India did not. In general, 2009 was a bad year for Ferrari, and neither Badoer nor Fisichella scored a single point in the car. Would Schumacher have scored? Maybe. He was better than Badoer in the sense he had more recent racing experience, and was obviously a better driver, but he was worse off for the fact he hadn't really driven a 2009-spec (major rules changes from when he had left F1 in 2006) F1 car, whereas Badoer had tested the F2009 some. And he was better than Fisichella in the sense that he was a better driver, but he was worse off for the fact that Fisichella had been racing continuously since Schumacher's retirement, including in a 2009-spec car (albeit one without KERS, as noted earlier).

So, if Badoer and Fisichella stepped in and failed to even score a point, I don't see how Schumacher would've stepped in and done better than Räikkönen. And because Massa was ahead of Räikkönen in 2008 and ahead of him again in 2009 before the injury, and because it was Räikkönen being forced out for Alonso, I'm not sure why Ferrari would take Schumacher over Massa to partner Alonso unless Schumacher conclusively beat Räikkönen. Which no substitute driver was doing in 2009.

Good post.

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