The Swap

[Sakae 0]

Have you ever taken into consideration cultural differences? I can understand his body language, his expression, his mood, and thinking, and I find nothing strange about it, nothing childish, not now, not in the past, but all within the norm a man in his situation lives by. I am fine with him "as is".

[Emmcee 0]

So you deemed his behaviour fine in the past? cultural differences? Now that's an excuse if I ever heard one, any other aspect of a conversation and it's classed as racism, funny how people get to pick and choose its affectivness. Never heard schumi say he was going home like a baby when he caused a collision with his teammate, refusing to work with team orders, schumi has never done this, yet Seb has done it a few times, it's ok when it suits him but when it doesn't benefit him, he gets upset. Happened a few times with webber, refused to let Daniel past. The guy is better now but the behaviour has sealed some patterns in his current behaviour like China this year, Iam sure I've seen Seb overtake with a lot of commitment like that and no said crap.

[Sakae 0]

We have learned recently that Vettel had in his contract that he will not receive unreasonable team orders. That's in the first instance. In the second instance, he was not mentally ready to be subservient to Webber, who disobeyed team orders prior incident you are referring to, and more than once. Media weren't really willing to deal with that, but from both, Horner and Marko we know about Webber's skeletons in the closet as well. The difference is, Vettel hasn't written his book as yet if he ever get around it, something I doubt because he is not that type, and private issues remain private with him.

I am sorry, but I see nothing much wrong here. RB management I think understood circumstances, and really were not mad at him, and keeping contact with him until this very day.

[Emmcee 0]

So webber disobeyed team orders prior to the 2010 Turkish GP? That's where all the tension started. I also know from a reliable source that the "new" front wing they brought to Silverstone that year, wasn't given to Seb because webber didn't want it, it was given to Seb because his stuffed his own and wanted another so they took it from webber and made out to the media he didn't want it to try play down inter team rivalries and tensions the media was starting to get wind of, that's the truth, not this other crap everyone heard. Why wouldn't you want a part upgrade that has to be proven on the simulator first before going into production that gains you time? Even if you struggled with it at first, if it had proven gains which it most likely would've if they made it, you would learn to drive with it and slightly adjust certain things to maintain a level of comfort and control. Redbull honestly created the tension as they had to do whatever it took to keep Seb happy to be able to sign him up for a long term deal, very much like Redbull and Verstappen today, doing what they can to keep happy so they can sign him on long term and have first dibs before merc or Ferrari get in with the mega contract deals. They signed Seb for like 7 mill a season, it wasn't till his last Redbull year he started hitting over 10-15, so if Redbull didn't sign him up, you can bet your bottom dollar teams like Ferrari and Mercedes and Mclaren would've thrown money at Vettel and stole him away.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Incorrect. Webber did not want the frontwing and it was passed on, my guess is it was already "late" and he didnt want the new "thing" to be a hindrance. The deal with new parts is that it SOMETIMES adds a certain unknown factor to the whole package. It has to be tested, assimulated and then data checked with engineers to see if the thing works. It takes time and not all new parts works.

[Emmcee 0]

Incorrect? How do you know that? I heard it otherwise from someone working in the pitlane at the time, what would he know hey? Concidering this guy is an Aussie aswell and worked alongside webber and I know they were still good mates at the Redbull years, they wouldn't have a chat over coffe or lunch or dinner about stuff behind the scenes would they?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I dont trust you and you aussie friends on anything Vettel vs Webber anymore. I mean...who u gonna back?

[Emmcee 0]

Same implies to you with any incident involving Vettel or raikkonen and China prooved that when a similar move made by raikkonen took Bottas out the race yet kvyat's was worse and he didn't even touch anyone, how you work that one out? Besides if that's how you looks at things that's fine, atleast I know the truth and laugh when people get the nose out of joint when there 100% incorrect.

[KoolMonkey 0]

This subject has been touched upon so many times, I've lost count, yet Vettel's detractors seems forever sold on their very narrow point of view that Vettel is cr*p, and DR is king of the hill. Change of technology in 2014, reliability issues, lack of track time, 4 WDC, personal issues, tiredness of media attacks, bullying in the front of TV cameras, etc., none of that counts and seems fair to them. One standard for evaluation of Vettel in 2014, another standard for DR in 2015. That's how it works on the internet.

I've given up and stopped even trying to discuss this topic. On one forum which I visit occasionally as a passive visitor, I've taken a notice that almost all Vettel's fans left the forum in disgust over defamation language, and when reasoned, ultimately being shouted out of the door. Part of the problem could be, that senior people are trying to conduct a rational conversation with adolescents, and we know how that works.

I've seen this too with regards to RBR. So many people call them cheaters, claim they screwed over Webber, the list just goes on. You can't reason with unreasonable people. It's impossible. Bring in fact, uh oh, nope you just get shouted and sworn at. Leave the discussion and like a little poodle or chihuahua they think their little sniping has won them some great battle. The reality people just don't have time argue with a brick wall.

Vettel IS special and it boggles my mind that Hamilton is being talked up as having greater achievements. His past 2x WDCs are the most hollow I have EVER seen in this sport. Half of Vettels when down the very last races. He had the entire paddock campaigning against pretty much all of Red Bulls innnovations to get them banned. They still won. He had the boo brigrade which for me was some of the most disrespectful behaviour I've seen of fans. Where were the Hamiltons and other supposedly standup drivers when this was happening. Staying silent like most people do when the subjects of Gay Marriage and other difficult topics arrise. Better to just be silent and not get invovled.

I can say with 1000000000% certainty Hamilton would have quit the sport had he been booed for the amount of time Vettel was. And he wouldn't have still been winning each race either.

We celebrate greatness, yet it's so fashionable to slam Vettel and claim it was all the car, yet parade Hamilton around as some type of Aryton Senna figure, when his car is the most dominant I have seen in my lifetime. Whats hypocrisy!?

[Emmcee 0]

What you talking about fact monkey? How many times have we been over the front wing debacle and people say webber gave it away when I know for a FACT it wasn't, Redbull swiped it and gave it to Seb as apparently he was unhappy only two were brought to begin with.

[Ajay Fernando 0]

Formula 1 is in a state in which whoever has the fastest car wins. Even if guiterez and haryanto drives for merc , the best driver out of the both would be winning championship. It's not about driver anymore.

[Sakae 0]

Still, with cars of relative similar performance, the difference between an excellent driver and the exceptional one is, how consistently they do drive at the limits of their equipment, methinks, so, there is still narrow margin which separates classes. Mercedes, of course, is so far ahead for the third straight year, that driving at the limits is really not required, and they still make the podium. With regulatory changes in pipes, it looks like we might have winners more or less defined next year in qualifications on Saturday, and confirmed in the first corner on Sunday. Then it might be really over.

[Emmcee 0]

You can't drive these cars on the limit, being the fuel regs and such along with tyre deg. If they could run as many tyres and refill fuel, they would be 5 seconds a lap faster. You have to watch videos of schumi back in the late 90s to even remember what an f1 car looks like on the edge let alone riding onboard and see schumi push it over the limit and bring it back with every correction, he is a tenth to late with a correction, the car will be out of control, that's on the raggered edge IMO.

[Sakae 0]

You can't drive these cars on the limit, being the fuel regs and such along with tyre deg. If they could run as many tyres and refill fuel, they would be 5 seconds a lap faster. You have to watch videos of schumi back in the late 90s to even remember what an f1 car looks like on the edge let alone riding onboard and see schumi push it over the limit and bring it back with every correction, he is a tenth to late with a correction, the car will be out of control, that's on the raggered edge IMO.

I agree with you (on bolded part), which is a reason why some drivers perhaps look better than they are. Both, Schumacher and Vettel are known to drive consistently at the limit, as their management confirmed. In Vettel's case, it was a reason why he has in his cabinet 4 WDC trophies. Mercedes, on the other hand, is just a different equipment altogether. I had my doubts initially, but could not close my eyes to the reality for too long.

[Kati 0]

Formula 1 is in a state in which whoever has the fastest car wins. Even if guiterez and haryanto drives for merc , the best driver out of the both would be winning championship. It's not about driver anymore.

BRING NICK HEIDFELD BACK! :D:D NICK WORLD CHAMPION! LOL

[Emmcee 0]

You serious? Might aswell bring back Taki inoue while we're at it lol, two men involving safety cars, one got hit by the safety car, the other hit it.

[Kati 0]

I cannot believe you are comparing Nick to Inoue, are you under medications of any type or is that just a bad sense of humour problem?

Nick was as good as your beloved Webber when they were team mates, and only finished 8 points behind him because he was out of 5 races.

[Emmcee 0]

Iam joking, heidfeld was good but no way as good as webber but they do share one similar record. Heidfeld has the most podiums in the history of the sport without a win, yet webber did most races before a win. When he and webber were teammates, that was heidfeld at the best we have seen him. He might have had a different career if he landed that Mclaren drive but it is what it is. Webber also had his fair share of dnf's in that Williams and it followed him into the 2006 season also. You look at back these in hindsight and how different the sport and world champions could've been if they went the other way in there career, like alesi picking Ferrari just before Williams won two straights titles, same with webber and Renault, heidfeld and Mclaren just to name a few, gets you thinking. Heidfeld did one thing for me when he teamed up with webber, it showed me just how fast he was and that I underestimated him at his previous years at sauber.

[Sakae 0]

I am not entirely certain of it, but this kind of swap might have put MV on the fastest rise in ranks of whole F1 history. It seems just like yesterday when he earned a common driver's license, and now he will drive an F1 car. What's wrong with this picture? (Spoiler: maybe cars are too easy to drive in this era)?

[Emmcee 0]

That's how I feel, that there's no challenge compared to the cars ten years ago. You never here today's driver wanting f1 cars to do this or that, they know no better but drivers like button,alonso,raikkonen, they all know how f1 was and how it used to be, why doesn't it strike anyone in power in f1 that there's a reason these particular drivers voice there opinions on matters like this, because they know what has happened. Look at drivers ten, twenty years ago, no matter if you were fast or not, if you didn't have experience from other open wheeler categories, you weren't going to do well, you would struggle extremely, now with drivers being able to skip what like 4 or 5 categories to get to the top and still be reasonably competitive says it all. Remember when schumi, the fittest guy this sport has ever seen, get out his car, pull his helmet and balaclava of, give two thumbs up and be drenched in sweat, the fittest guy. Now they look just a fresh as they got in, I think this points system will work for the super licence but there like all the past world champions I think with the exception of Damon hill, wouldn't have made the regulation guidelines to get one when they did, so it's a bit of a funny situation. The only driver I've seen been able to jump to f1 with minimal experience back in the day and do well was raikkonen, he is the only one. I disliked when kimi came in to with only 23 car races themselves under his belt for experience before getting the sauber drive. I felt like it made it look like anyone could drive an f1 car and even match the greats like hakkinen and Schumacher. That's until the season went on and I realised Peter sauber found an incredible talent.

[Sakae 0]

Kvyat reportedly is still waiting for an explanation by RBR why was he transferred. Obviously, he has not accepted Dr. Marko's 20 min long explanation over the phone, which came in while he was at home, relaxing.

[Emmcee 0]

More like he feels marko is pi$$ing in his pocket more like it and he is. Over exaggerated a mistake massively and in all honesty as a webber fan, webber made more mistakes than kvyat did and he wasn't even mentioned for replacement. Korea anyone? This alone with today's redbull attitude and he would've been gone, there was just no one fast enough to replace him yet, that redbull could get there hands on. This was setup from day one and kvyat is the scapegoat,the patsy if you will. To me kvyat has that hunger and attack but I feel he doesn't have that away from the car and they walk all over him. Could be totally wrong but that's the impression I get. You listen to how max talks about redbull, I got a funny feeling they will try push dan out the way to, if max shows increasing speed. He may not get dropped but the focus will switch to max instead of him. Verstappen is faster than kvyat and maybe even dan but he is to young still and needs to just rack up the miles just to cover all bases. Then when he has the experience and teamed up with a good car, you won't beat him.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Kvyat reportedly is still waiting for an explanation by RBR why was he transferred. Obviously, he has not accepted Dr. Marko's 20 min long explanation over the phone, which came in while he was at home, relaxing.

He got an explanation but is playing the dumb game now. Horner said it was innevitable there would be a swap. It's been rumoured all year long.

If the situation was toxic at STR with Sainz and Max, and Kvyat was the one they had decided was going to be replaced, the solution is rather simple. Swap them now and don't bother waiting until years end.

Kvyat won't last long in F1 if he doesn't develop some humility. Even drivers like Maldonado who had some of the biggest sponsorship ever, didn't last forever. Money may get you into F1, but it's talent and a willingness to be a team player that keeps you in it.

[Emmcee 0]

I don't think the problem with kvyat is his speed or results, he seems to willing to roll over if you know what I mean. That is what will end his career, the results and speed are there already, we've seen that, it's the internal issues at redbull that have caught him out. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari and Mercedes wanted in fact I am 100% sure that's why it's a rush to secure him now and make him happy by giving him what he wants. This is one advantage of having an ex driver for a father, you would be able to see the bs before it starts. I also don't believe there was any tension at toro Rosso, if there was it was created by max. How many comments have we seen about the team should've let me past and rah rah rah and then Carlos sounds all sweet with it like its not bothering him. Verstappen is trying to create drama IMO.

[Sakae 0]

Affirmation, I solemnly affirm that the evidence that I shall give, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is probably missing, yet it is more or less obvious, that there is more to this swap, then meets the eye; it is upsetting our curiosity, but at the end, it's not our business. Verstappen probably had real offers elsewhere, and this move shoo-him-in, and inadvertently might have saved either Kimi's or Nico's jobs.