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KoolMonkey

Round 1, Fight!!!!

44 posts in this topic

Looking at Mercs crash at the start of this race, I was naturally trying to work out who was at fault, as we all do.

At this point I'm not sure. Lauda has a good point, Hamilton stuffed his race and should not have been so agressive. Brundle has a good point, in that Nico mucked his corner up and Hamilton had enough speed to attempt an overtake. I think the deciding factor has to come back to what Lauda told his drivers, DON'T CRASH INTO EACH OTHER. So that would mean, they would have to backoff a little in close vacinity to each others vs say another car from another team.

I can see Hamilton being at fault, but I can see Nico being at fault. The fact I detest and do not respect Hamilton is already on the record, but that doesn't influence who I think is to blame.

I don't think it's 50/50 however. I think Hamilton should not have attempted a pass and been patient. Even if only to do what he and Nico were told, DO NOT CRASH INTO EACH OTHER. And Nico, well I can't for a second believe he'd push Hamilton out onto the grass intentionally, but we'll have to wait and see what transpires. Hamilton HAS pushed Nico off the circuit quite a few times now over the years, and he's never copped any flack over it, so I will be disappointed if Nico does.

Lauda thinks its Hamiltons fault, Toto brushes it off as Lauda just being an OLD racer and having his oppinion and that the data will reveal the truth. I don't think data will reveal anything we cannot already see with out eyes.

It's a coin toss. Nico shouldn't have pushed Hamilton wide, but Hamilton should not have been so agressive either. And interesting tidbit was during the broadcast, Brundle mentioned Hamilton was late for the natinoal anthem and was pushing and bumping and brushign aside cameramen to make it on time. He felt he was unessesarily hurried and not calm.

The pressure is on Hamilton more than Nico at this point. I'm sure the stewards will find Kimi guilty lol. Extra points if you know why! lol

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Toto is pathetic. Bla bla bla thats the price we pay for letting the drivers race, bla bla bla there were no finger pointing, everything is cool. BS. If everything was cool, you wouldn't run to discuss it in private. Lauda is the only one there who actually says what he thinks, rather than read a PR piece.

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As much as I don't like Lauda, I absolutely HATE Toto. He's a sham and is not worhy of his role. The current rules are what's keeping Merc at the top. He could be fired tomorrow and the winner of Eurovision put into the principal role and they'd still win. Brawn and to some degree Haug did all the hard proper legwork.

At any rate, he's gutless and has never made a call or decision publicly and is always toeing the PR line. At least Lauda makes the hard calls and gives his honest oppinion. And often right after it's occured is when he's most truthful. Later he has been known to "change" his mind. No doubt the Merc PR men getting in his ear. But Toto, I guess he's perfect for Mercedes seeing as how image means so much to them. But on credit and talent he's a fraud.

Edited by KoolMonkey

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I can't comment as I haven't really seen it yet.

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Brundle has a good point, in that Nico mucked his corner up and Hamilton had enough speed to attempt an overtake.

Rosberg's engine was in "formation lap" mode, he had his rear light flashing, apparently there is some oncar footage that show Rosberg trying to restore the "race" setting. Hamilton realised what was going on and made his move

http://it.motorsport...-al-via-737162/

I personally think that Rosberg didn't leave the mandatory one car width to Hamilton. On the other hand Hamilton's move was overoptimistic and he had seen that Rosberg was going to cover that side of the track. Had this been the first time that something like that had happened between them I'd be happy to say that - on balance - Rosberg is slightly more at fault (the mitigation being that for some reason his engine was in formation lap mode and he had less power and out of turn 3 he was busy setting things right), but when you consider that in 2014 in Hunger in the very same situation Hamilton pushed Rosberg off the track, well if I bear that in mind I would have to say that I totally understand why Rosberg slammed the door, they probably still had a few scores to settle and I'm glad that Rosberg has realised that in order to win he has to toughen up a bit

Edited by Publius Cornelius Scipio

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Tbh I don't really think there will be a fight - even though I hope I'm wrong cus at least we'd have some excitement. They will get told off, there will be excuses, and everyone will go back to old PR mode. At most, whoever is angrier will leave, which I still don't think it'll happen next year (but if it does, that's Lewis, not Nico).

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He could be fired tomorrow and the winner of Eurovision put into the principal role and they'd still win. Brawn and to some degree Haug did all the hard proper legwork.

LMAO

Rosberg's engine was in "formation lap" mode, he had his rear light flashing, apparently there is some oncar footage that show Rosberg trying to restore the "race" setting. Hamilton realised what was going on and made his move

http://it.motorsport...-al-via-737162/

I personally think that Rosberg didn't leave the mandatory one car width to Hamilton. On the other hand Hamilton's move was overoptimistic and he had seen that Rosberg was going to cover that side of the track. Had this been the first time that something like that had happened between them I'd be happy to say that - on balance - Rosberg is slightly more at fault (the mitigation being that for some reason his engine was in formation lap mode and he had less power and out of turn 3 he was busy setting things right), but when you consider that in 2014 in Hunger in the very same situation Hamilton pushed Rosberg off the track, well if I bear that in mind I would have to say that I totally understand why Rosberg slammed the door, they probably still had a few scores to settle and I'm glad that Rosberg has realised that in order to win he has to toughen up a bit

My thoughts are that Rosberg didnt have time to leave a car width Hamilton gained so fast and jerked right so rapidly.

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I saw a pic on another article somewhere, I forget, that shows Hamilton's wheels were on the grass before his front wheels were even next to Nico's back wheels. Thus did Nico have to give him room? He wasn't next to him at that point?

But I think Hamiltons speed caught out Nico to some degree. Nico was just going for a block and Hamilton was gunning it like his life depended on it. Had he been a bit more calculated, Nico would have blocked him, they would not have made contact, and would have faught it out on the track or through their strategies.

Thus looking at it from Lauda's point of view, who is a racer, who is a 3x WDC, his opinion will always mean more than Toto's. Toto will never say anything good or bad about his drivers. He's as plain as a brown paper bag. PR speak is all he's good for, so we'll never learn or gleam anything from his words.

Lauda told them, DO NOT CRASH INTO EACH OTHER. Thus if Hamilton was behind, he should have been just that little bit more cautious. But I'm glad they crashed. At least we got a race where we didn't know who was going to win. And that hasn't happen since the Vettel vs Webber vs Alonso days.

Edited by KoolMonkey

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Webber vs alonso is some of the best wheel to wheel racing I've ever seen, remember the pass going up Eau rouge? Webber said there's only a handful of drivers he would even attempt a move like that on. Goes to show how a driver sees the discrepancies in driver ability.

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I saw a pic on another article somewhere, I forget, that shows Hamilton's wheels were on the grass before his front wheels were even next to Nico's back wheels. Thus did Nico have to give him room? He wasn't next to him at that point?

But I think Hamiltons speed caught out Nico to some degree. Nico was just going for a block and Hamilton was gunning it like his life depended on it. Had he been a bit more calculated, Nico would have blocked him, they would not have made contact, and would have faught it out on the track or through their strategies.

Thus looking at it from Lauda's point of view, who is a racer, who is a 3x WDC, his opinion will always mean more than Toto's. Toto will never say anything good or bad about his drivers. He's as plain as a brown paper bag. PR speak is all he's good for, so we'll never learn or gleam anything from his words.

Lauda told them, DO NOT CRASH INTO EACH OTHER. Thus if Hamilton was behind, he should have been just that little bit more cautious. But I'm glad they crashed. At least we got a race where we didn't know who was going to win. And that hasn't happen since the Vettel vs Webber vs Alonso days.

If you think about it, Hamilton actually collected Nico only after he lost it on the grass. Had there been hard surface, then Hamilton might kept car under control and avoid crash. A lot of people seems to be stuck on what Rosberg was doing with his car, but FiA decided otherwise, and just because Hamilton saw a gap, that alone was not enough for him to claim it, for he was not sufficiently alongside Rosberg. Where I am not clear is on substance of that judgement (Doc 33) - it was racing accident. If Rosberg acted in his right to race and close the gap, than Hamilton committed error of judgement, and should be held responsible. For me a racing accident happened in Sochi after Kvyat rammed Vettel, and Vettel consequnetly collected DR. That part was a racing accident. In Spain I think that Lauda was correct in his call.

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Racing incident. Blame on both sides. Stewards got it right. Rosberg the happier with events, gap remains the same and one race less. Bring on Monaco.

Rosberg will be going for 4 wins on the bounce at Monaco, same number of wins as Prost. Only Schumacher, Hill and Senna have more. Monaco hasn't been Hamilton's lucky circuit in recent years.

Any more clashes this season between the two of them and you'll have to wonder if changes will be made to the driver line up next year, even if they have contracts beyond.

Interesting times.

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Well I think Lewis knows after that incident that nico isn't going to be brushed aside, he really means business this time and he has to as I feel this is his only chance to be champion, he has to take it.

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Well, mostly British media will blame anything and everything but Hamilton's absence of professional judgement. Now most of media are hanging on the switch position and lack of Rosberg's focus. Lauda said, Hamilton became to aggressive, and we know end of that story. Because there was some space, that doesn't immediately implies, it's yours to take, considering track configuration, know-how what the front driver will do, and relative positions of both cars. Stewards determined that Hamilton was off the position to make any claims for free pass, and that should had been end of it. Rosberg therefore did not have to yield, that's implication of the judgment rendered by FiA. Why is it then called a racing accident is not something I can understand. I wonder what would the same sources say, had this been Vettel, instead Hamilton.

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ive been looking at it from this angle, we know Lewis, we know he will fight but will Lewis put himself in a position at the start of a race to take himself out, IF he is fast enough to win in pace anyway? I don't think he would, I think he fears nico is simply faster than him at this stage and will take any opportunity to pass as he fears he won't have another chance to try again. In the past he would wait of and attempt again later but going to the limit he did without backing out makes me think he is feeling the pressure now big time.

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Ever since the Start is more driver depended, Hamilton shrank on the track little bit. He qualified in P1, and his start is not really what it should be, yet I am OK with that. More of it, please. [/dark side of me OFF].

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He needs his old man to whip him back into line, either that or jumped at a club, either one iam happy with.

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Because there was some space

From what I saw it was a racing incident where both were at fault.

Hamilton saw an opportunity for a pass with a slow team-mate and he took it. Anyone driving his car would have done exactly the same. Maybe a bit too aggressively, but then they were racing!!!

Rosberg closed the door (as you would expect him to do so), probably a bit too firmly (esp. given team orders not to take each other out). They collide rest is history.

So, 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Not sure why people feel the need to demonise one or the other. Simple racing incident.

Personally I'm glad they were racing and the end result of them taking each other out was one of the best races we have seen in ages.

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What strikes me is people are saying there was "space" looked a lot less space than kvyat had on both Occassion and he was murdered for it,

Classic double standards again.

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What strikes me is people are saying there was "space" looked a lot less space than kvyat had on both Occassion and he was murdered for it,

Classic double standards again.

This time Rosberg closed the door. BIG DIFFERENCE. He decided to take the punch. Shows us what could've happened had Vettel closed it too.

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Bs a driver committed to a move or going for a gap can't see into the future what the car in front is going to do. And besides, once you commit to a move 99% you can't get out of it as you have also committed the car to the move also. That's my whole point on the previous issue as well, fact is Hamilton went for a gap without possibly knowing what was about to happen. You can have a rough idea as experience will play that out for you but weather or not it goes to plan how you see it unfold in your head all in a split second, is a different thing.

Edited by Emmcee

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So does this imply for Russia 2015?

Edited by Emmcee

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Where was any anticipation what kind of defense front car shall deploy, while both were aiming to make next right-hander apex? Difference in speed (I think 17 km/hr was mentioned) is not enough for him to fly-by without some effects along way, when converging. Racing spirit or not, in terms of defense, doesn't he knows, should he have to make an evasive-move off track, what will happen when you get your two wheels on the grass under different traction, while applying brakes? Proffessional judgement and instincts - all on Fail position.

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So does this imply for Russia 2015?

I really cant see how you compare the 2 incidents and spew hipocracy. Honestly!

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