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Insider

McLaren Honda Doomed To Fail

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So alonso is belting button this season and he missed two races if you count his dnf in Australia. Tenth in the championship ahead of Massa, not a bad effort.

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motosport.com

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"I am disappointed that the representatives of TAG and Mumtalakat, the other main shareholders in McLaren, have forced through this decision to place me on gardening leave, despite the strong warnings from the rest at the management team about the potential consequences of their actions on the business," said Dennis in a statement.

Is it the same TAG which is sponsoring RBR? Wasn't their departure from McLaren as a sponsor a "writing on the wall"? I am not sure that I have correct understanding of those complicated relationships, potential conflict of interest, etc. TAG is invested in McLaren, joins effort to remove McLaren CEO, yet have their name of RBR's engines? This doesn't sound right, does it? But then, we are dealing with RB, where impossible is converted into possible once again without a squawk of protest from anyone.

(I am of course referring to the fact, that in highly regulated and restrictive environment an owner has on the grid two teams pretending to compete against each other. It is outrages, but then, with times we got used to such situations in this business). 

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Errr...nope. AFAIK Tag Heuer (the watchmaker company) is a RBR sponsor, and used to be a McLaren sponsor. However, Tag Heuer is no longer part of TAG Group, the holding that controls McLaren through Ojjeh. 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Quiet One said:

Errr...nope. AFAIK Tag Heuer (the watchmaker company) is a RBR sponsor, and used to be a McLaren sponsor. However, Tag Heuer is no longer part of TAG Group, the holding that controls McLaren through Ojjeh. 

The quote in my post is Dennis's statement. 

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"I am disappointed that the representatives of TAG and Mumtalakat,...

Somehow TAG is being mentioned in his statement  (per motorsport) for some reason.

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1 minute ago, Sakae said:

The quote in my post is Dennis's statement. 

Somehow TAG is being mentioned in his statement  (per motorsport) for some reason.

Precisely. Dennis is talking about TAG Group (Mansour Ojjeh's group) which owns part of McLaren. That group is no longer related to Tag Heuer (the RBR sponsor). 

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5 minutes ago, Quiet One said:

Precisely. Dennis is talking about TAG Group (Mansour Ojjeh's group) which owns part of McLaren. That group is no longer related to Tag Heuer (the RBR sponsor). 

Understand.

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Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh, through TAG Group, have been business partners since 1980s when the duo spearheaded McLaren to an era of domination in Formula 1. However, the two have fallen out recently, with Ojjeh having taken support of fellow shareholders Bahrain royal family to oust Dennis.

Looks like writing on the wall when TAG left McLaren meant The End for Dennis. (For now).

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As someone said, with so many people on gardening leave it's no surprise gardening is national past time in UK.

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We have to forget any nostalgic pangs and look at this pragmatically, I feel. RD has been a problem for the F1 team since he fired Whitmarsh. Bringing Honda back in and hiring Alonso was not the coup it initially seemed to be. Three seasons in and Ron has 1. Failed to engage a marquee sponsor, 2. Delivered a race-winning car and, 3. Lost control of HIS company.  It's simple really - he had to go. Just where that puts JB's deal I don't know. Ojjeh is a big Button fan and it was he and the Bahrainis who called the 'make Vandoorne' wait' deal last year. Personally, I do not expect to see Jens in a McLaren again. Olympics and Le Mans then .......... who knows? To be honest, unless Honda have a solid handle on 2017 they will be running midfield again and I believe this is Renault comeback year anyway as a team and supplier. Ferrari may take a sabbatical now Liberty are on board. I am hearing that but who are Liberty? Though the main man may be filthy rich, apparently Liberty don't have the dollars to do the deal. The want the teams to buy in! The top five drivers could do a deal like that. Bernie's smiling a lot isn't he? Yeah.

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Liberty arnt a fuel company like shell are they? Here in Australia, Liberty has heaps of service stations like bp and shell. Has Ferrari split with shell? Have I missed something or is it the wrong Liberty?

so "Insider" are you predicting a surge in redbull and Renault competitiveness next year?

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Unless one is the actual owner/majority owner of the company, anyone can get booted out. The world revolves and continues to evolve no matter who we believe we are and how significant we think we are. Ron's time is up and so he's gone. Good or bad call, the McLaren will have to move on without Ron.

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That's right; time, and consequently we, are marching in one direction, regardless of thoughts. Everyone is replaceable (with exception of BE, as Horner tried to suggest; kiss kisss kissss). 

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Can't stand Horner, never had, he's like a fly to a turd, just won't go away and he has one of those faces I just can't stand.

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Love how Martin Brundle burns him here on national TV, to funny.

 

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On 17/11/2016 at 4:18 PM, Insider said:

We have to forget any nostalgic pangs and look at this pragmatically, I feel. RD has been a problem for the F1 team since he fired Whitmarsh. Bringing Honda back in and hiring Alonso was not the coup it initially seemed to be. Three seasons in and Ron has 1. Failed to engage a marquee sponsor, 2. Delivered a race-winning car and, 3. Lost control of HIS company.  It's simple really - he had to go. Just where that puts JB's deal I don't know. Ojjeh is a big Button fan and it was he and the Bahrainis who called the 'make Vandoorne' wait' deal last year. Personally, I do not expect to see Jens in a McLaren again. Olympics and Le Mans then .......... who knows? To be honest, unless Honda have a solid handle on 2017 they will be running midfield again and I believe this is Renault comeback year anyway as a team and supplier. Ferrari may take a sabbatical now Liberty are on board. I am hearing that but who are Liberty? Though the main man may be filthy rich, apparently Liberty don't have the dollars to do the deal. The want the teams to buy in! The top five drivers could do a deal like that. Bernie's smiling a lot isn't he? Yeah.

Ron being forced out is a big loss to F1. I think the problem comes down to his attention being on McLaren road cars. And they have some incredible cars. That's the issue for me for Ron. I don't think he should have been the team principal, rather the guy who takes a back seat and keeps going with the road cars, and who has input in the big decisions.

Not having a sponsor is a problem. The livery of the car looks crap. They didn't just lose Mercedes, they lost Hugo Boss and TAG. Their drivers race suits look like The Stigs. White and virtually logo less.

At any rate, here's been alot of dumb decisions from McLaren these past few years. Losing Merc wasn't their fault however. Merc weren't going to be giving them the best engines or sharing the right info. The Perez situation was crap. Magnussen too. Hiring Boullier was stupider than firing Whitmarsh. Hamilton had a negative impact on the team in his last year there.

We all make fun of Run, but I trust he knows what he's doing. You don't go 30yrs in the sport if you do. Him being forced out is BS. They will be weaker for it.

He might be back in the future. He's not selling his shares, and has the clout to buy back the other shares if his mind is dead set set on it.

McLaren has simply lost too much talent over the years. From Newey, Lowe, Whitmarsh and so on. I still blame the rules for all teams accept Mercedes for their predicaments. They can't test and they can't modify the engines. We'll already know how good or crap 2017 will be come testing time. I suspect Merc will dominate once again early on, but that the teams will catch up due to finally being unshackled in engine development.

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On 7/13/2016 at 11:21 AM, Sakae said:

It is planned for next year.

It won't be any good. They failed with the V8s and they have failed with the 1.6. A new engine this deep into their new alliance signals another two years of testing live. Why did Button take a sabbatical? He's done with R&D. Williams beckoned but they can't afford him. Ron took an option for 2018 because he knows Nando will have moved to Renault by then but Button won't come back to drive a pig. Haas should be going strongly by then or have quit but there is always room and money for a WDC and if he wants to race, he will. I have heard he may do the WEC with Massa and Davidson next year.

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There's no cost cutting, they have been doing it for years and because bernie pockets the money instead of reinvesting it back into the sport, were at a stalemate.

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Honda face the same dilemma as the sport itself. Change or die. Bernie came up with the two race idea this week and it's probably the only sensible input he has contributed in 30 years. I would love two 40 min races with a stop, grid shuffle and even change drivers bringing much needed sponsorship to the smaller teams. The LIberty deal may fall through unless the billionaire owner cuts a personal cheque - they simply don't have the cash. Two races? Great idea.

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8 hours ago, Insider said:

Honda face the same dilemma as the sport itself. Change or die. Bernie came up with the two race idea this week and it's probably the only sensible input he has contributed in 30 years. I would love two 40 min races with a stop, grid shuffle and even change drivers bringing much needed sponsorship to the smaller teams. The LIberty deal may fall through unless the billionaire owner cuts a personal cheque - they simply don't have the cash. Two races? Great idea.

In my opinion two races is one of the worst ideas I've heard for a long, long time about F1. When you got to a restaurant you may have two starters, followed by your main course. F1 is the pinnacle, or rather SHOULD be the pinnacle, of competitive motor sport. More people watched the Brazilian GP because they tuned in expecting to see the next programme and realising the F1 was still on! On a normal weekend fewer and fewer fans tune in to watch F1, so why would more and more tune in to watch TWO races of Mercedes, or RB, or whoever else domination?

There are problems with F1 but the Sunday race format is the absolute least of them, if can be called a problem at all, and is in no way whatsoever a viable solution to what is actually a problem - pure, competitive, cost-effective RACING.

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