So who is the Fourth Best Driver in F1?

[Ruslan 0]

Many people consider Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel to be the three best drivers in F1, and certainly their results support that. So assuming they are three best.....then who is the fourth best? Is it Nico Rosberg, Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen, Sergio Perez, Roman Grosjean, or Jenson Button or someone else? Who is the best driver in F1 that is not Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel?  

[Emmcee 0]

This is my top 5 based of my own racing experience and what I see and how I would drive if I was in there shoes.

1- Alonso

2- Ricciardo (call me biased if it make you feel better)

3-Hamilton

4-Vettel

5-Verstappen

[Ruslan 0]

Yea, not sure I would put Ricciardo #2 on that list.....the only thing we know for certain is that he is better than Vergne, a demotivated Vettel, Kvyat, and a still developing Verstappen. I am not sure how he would fare against a motivated Vettel.

 

[radical-one 0]

I wouldn't pick Nico. He doesn't have the heart. He faints when under pressure.

It should be one of the RB's drivers (Max or Dan). 

[Ruslan 0]

In the end, Nico is only barely being beaten by Hamilton after multiple years. There is no question if he had a different teammate, he would have been a multiple world champion. To me, Dan and Max have not really been tested against a top driver (Well, DR vs Vettel in 2014...when Vettel had quit trying). Nico has certainly been tested (first Schumacher and then Hamilton). My gut reaction is that Nico might well be the next best driver in F1.

[radical-one 0]

You mean Nico needs a weaker team mate to become a champion ? 

[Emmcee 0]

2 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Yea, not sure I would put Ricciardo #2 on that list.....the only thing we know for certain is that he is better than Vergne, a demotivated Vettel, Kvyat, and a still developing Verstappen. I am not sure how he would fare against a motivated Vettel.

 

So your saying Vettel was "demotivated" from round 1 in 2014? Because dan had his measure the entire season. Also joining a team that was vettels and beating him with the car that was specifically designed for him, so the going gets tough and he gives up? Seems to be doing the same now and has "where are the blue flags" looped on his steering wheel which he only needs to push a button to activate. That along with the results obtained in a car until now that was behind the Ferrari, I certainly put dan up there.

[Quiet One 15]

On raw talent: Kimi

As an overall package: Jenson (even I am amazed for including this guy, but even if ALO is not at his best, he is still no slouch, and still there's barely anything between these two. Perhaps his career hasn't been as uninspiring as I thought it was).

 

Everybody else has either not been subject to as many changes in conditions, rules, etc. as these, so it makes for difficult comparisons (VES,  SAI and RIC) or they did, but they are simply more or less awful (MAS, ROS).

PER and HUL are other two good drivers, simply not good enough when compared to the old guys. 

[Emmcee 0]

No, I don't think today's drivers would be able to keep up with a mika hakkinen in his prime, senna or schumi, so I agree there.

[Ruslan 0]

8 hours ago, Emmcee said:

So your saying Vettel was "demotivated" from round 1 in 2014? Because dan had his measure the entire season. Also joining a team that was vettels and beating him with the car that was specifically designed for him, so the going gets tough and he gives up? Seems to be doing the same now and has "where are the blue flags" looped on his steering wheel which he only needs to push a button to activate. That along with the results obtained in a car until now that was behind the Ferrari, I certainly put dan up there.

It was a weird season, and then in 2015...Vettel suddenly came alive in Ferrari. So yea, we hashed through it all a couple of years ago (on another forum). For whatever reason, Vettel was not comfortable with the car from the start, then got demotivated, then decided to leave Red Bull (and conveniently had a performance related clause in the contract that allowed him to). It was Vettel at his worst, beginning with him throwing a hissy fit at the start of testing when he realized the car was not competitive. So 2014 was Vettel at his worse, with DR at his best (and we have never seen a bad season from DR). Is DR a better driver than Vettel? Well, as much as I like DR, and I am not much of a fan of Vettel, when addressing this question I do have to clear myself of biases and say that yes, I believe that Vettel at his best is a better driver than DR. I think that is also the sense of the paddock and is certainly demonstrated by his paycheck. In the end, there are three drivers in F1 people are willing to build a team around. There is probably a reason for that. These guys are not idiots.

By the way, speaking of direct comparison, how can you put Alonso on the top of your list with Hamilton beneath him, when in his rookie year Hamilton matched or beat teammate Alonso in virtually every stat?

 

[Emmcee 0]

I think you can't compare it like that simply because Ricciardo has never had a car like Vettel had say from 2010-2013 only then could any real comparison be made on success. But then I look at it like this, you have Seb who won 4 titles on the trot (amazing feat btw) so the team was tailor made to suit him in terms of chassis and the way the personnel worked around him to achieved maximum possible. Now he would know how the crew work and they would know how he works, that's common sense because of you owned a team and had a driver who won you 4 titles, you would basically give him what he wants (if possible) to keep the momentum going and more importantly, keeping the driver who brought you the success. In comes Ricciardo who is fresh from moving team and now has to get used to new personnel and a new car that's not built for him. Yeah Ricciardo would've worked with redbull engineers previously, but not day in day out like Vettel and use the info to build your car, that alone makes ricciardos achievement bigger than first mentioned but this is all based of my interpretation of what I saw and personal experiences of how race teams work. As for alonso and Hamilton, Lewis drove more mclarens than Fernando did when they both got there, Lewis knew how the team worked so there's an advantage there, not to mention the shocking management by the team who clearly favoured Lewis as they wanted a return on the investment they made years earlier. Plus they came under fire by signing a rookie so they wanted to put out that fire, but on out right pace and consistency of that pace throughout all the gps up to date, IMO alonso is a better driver.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

5 hours ago, Ruslan said:

It was a weird season, and then in 2015...Vettel suddenly came alive in Ferrari. So yea, we hashed through it all a couple of years ago (on another forum). For whatever reason, Vettel was not comfortable with the car from the start, then got demotivated, then decided to leave Red Bull (and conveniently had a performance related clause in the contract that allowed him to). It was Vettel at his worst, beginning with him throwing a hissy fit at the start of testing when he realized the car was not competitive. So 2014 was Vettel at his worse, with DR at his best (and we have never seen a bad season from DR). Is DR a better driver than Vettel? Well, as much as I like DR, and I am not much of a fan of Vettel, when addressing this question I do have to clear myself of biases and say that yes, I believe that Vettel at his best is a better driver than DR. I think that is also the sense of the paddock and is certainly demonstrated by his paycheck. In the end, there are three drivers in F1 people are willing to build a team around. There is probably a reason for that. These guys are not idiots.

By the way, speaking of direct comparison, how can you put Alonso on the top of your list with Hamilton beneath him, when in his rookie year Hamilton matched or beat teammate Alonso in virtually every stat?

 

Yeah, we've been here many a time

[Emmcee 0]

The comparison is like 96, Schumacher fresh from two titles and now is at Ferrari with a new teammate, it would be equivalent in some aspects as to Schumacher getting beaten by Irvine in the standings which we all now didn't happen. then having people making excuse for Irvine as to why Schumacher won 3 races and he won none. 

[Massa 0]

I agree that Vettel, Hamilton, and Alonso are the top three.  I think Vettel is the most complete—on and off the track.  Hamilton is the sheer fastest.  Alonso is the purest.  I enjoy them all.

I'll say Räikkönen, Button, Ricciardo, Rosberg, and Verstappen are the candidates.  I rule Verstappen out right away because I am a biased goober on an Internet forum.  But also, I don't think he's developed enough yet.  He has great moments, but he has some bad ones, too.  It's hard to compare someone as early in his career as he is to others who we have seen, in Button's case, for seventeen seasons.

I next rule out Rosberg.  He's Mark Webber.  He's been in the absolute best car for years, no competition, and not won a WDC.  He's won more than Webber, true, but he's had two advantages over Webber.  First, the Mercedes is and has been further ahead of the competition than any Red Bull ever was, so if Hamilton doesn't win, Rosberg surely will, unlike with Vettel, where if he lost, Webber was not guaranteed a win as a Ferrari or McLaren might take it instead (or in 2012 and early 2013, a literal anything).  And then there's the fact Hamilton defeats himself more than Vettel does.

I'll rule out Button.  It's hard to do that because he's beaten expectations a lot of times at McLaren.  But at the end of the day, he was most competitive against Hamilton when Hamilton's head was out of it (Nicole issues then) and most competitive against Alonso in...this weird era.  He outscored Pérez, but that doesn't tell the truth of the races, where Pérez was very, very close to him.  Button's a great driver.  He's great in a team.  He'll never give you less than you've earned.  His finest work is the second half of 2006.

I'll give it to Räikkönen over Ricciardo, but it's so close.  Räikkönen is having a great year.  And Räikkönen used to be in the three when the three were Schumacher, Räikkönen, and Alonso.  And he stayed there when the three were Räikkönen, Alonso, and Hamilton.  And he was easily fourth in his Lotus days.  2014 was awful—Alonso really did run that team.  But he's shown in 2015 and 2016 that he still has what he always did and is making the most of a tough era for anyone not in the Mercedes.

Ricciardo, however, is pretty equal.  Monaco qualifying was amazing.  His overtakes are great.  Like Räikkönen, there are times when you just feel like, "Wow, this guy's elite."  And there are times—rare, but times—when, as with Räikkönen, you think, "Oh, come on, you have to be better than that."  A compliment to both to have high expectations for them.  But on pure gut feeling, nothing analytical or objective, I think Räikkönen has the slightest of edges over Ricciardo for now.

[Ruslan 0]

Massa, nice response. I am not a Raikkonen fan, and he almost lost his ride this year to Perez, so I am not sure he is fourth best....but it is an interesting and entertaining question, now isn't it.....and we have a month before the next race.

[Emmcee 0]

3 hours ago, Massa said:

I agree that Vettel, Hamilton, and Alonso are the top three.  I think Vettel is the most complete—on and off the track.  Hamilton is the sheer fastest.  Alonso is the purest.  I enjoy them all.

I'll say Räikkönen, Button, Ricciardo, Rosberg, and Verstappen are the candidates.  I rule Verstappen out right away because I am a biased goober on an Internet forum.  But also, I don't think he's developed enough yet.  He has great moments, but he has some bad ones, too.  It's hard to compare someone as early in his career as he is to others who we have seen, in Button's case, for seventeen seasons.

I next rule out Rosberg.  He's Mark Webber.  He's been in the absolute best car for years, no competition, and not won a WDC.  He's won more than Webber, true, but he's had two advantages over Webber.  First, the Mercedes is and has been further ahead of the competition than any Red Bull ever was, so if Hamilton doesn't win, Rosberg surely will, unlike with Vettel, where if he lost, Webber was not guaranteed a win as a Ferrari or McLaren might take it instead (or in 2012 and early 2013, a literal anything).  And then there's the fact Hamilton defeats himself more than Vettel does.

I'll rule out Button.  It's hard to do that because he's beaten expectations a lot of times at McLaren.  But at the end of the day, he was most competitive against Hamilton when Hamilton's head was out of it (Nicole issues then) and most competitive against Alonso in...this weird era.  He outscored Pérez, but that doesn't tell the truth of the races, where Pérez was very, very close to him.  Button's a great driver.  He's great in a team.  He'll never give you less than you've earned.  His finest work is the second half of 2006.

I'll give it to Räikkönen over Ricciardo, but it's so close.  Räikkönen is having a great year.  And Räikkönen used to be in the three when the three were Schumacher, Räikkönen, and Alonso.  And he stayed there when the three were Räikkönen, Alonso, and Hamilton.  And he was easily fourth in his Lotus days.  2014 was awful—Alonso really did run that team.  But he's shown in 2015 and 2016 that he still has what he always did and is making the most of a tough era for anyone not in the Mercedes.

Ricciardo, however, is pretty equal.  Monaco qualifying was amazing.  His overtakes are great.  Like Räikkönen, there are times when you just feel like, "Wow, this guy's elite."  And there are times—rare, but times—when, as with Räikkönen, you think, "Oh, come on, you have to be better than that."  A compliment to both to have high expectations for them.  But on pure gut feeling, nothing analytical or objective, I think Räikkönen has the slightest of edges over Ricciardo for now.

Good post mate but I defiantly don't think kimi has it over danny, if we're talking mclaren kimi, then yes but kimi now, no way.