'16 Mexican Grand Prix (Guessing game)

[Emmcee 0]

All of this is irrelevant but sakae, the fact is Sebastian broke a rule and was penalise. Simple as, yeah Verstappen deserved his to but you can't go round trying to gain support to ban moving under braking and the next race, the very next race you go and do it yourself. That penalty ruined his race, not Verstappen and it was his own wrong doing.

[Sakae 0]

34 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

All of this is irrelevant but sakae, the fact is Sebastian broke a rule and was penalise. Simple as, yeah Verstappen deserved his to but you can't go round trying to gain support to ban moving under braking and the next race, the very next race you go and do it yourself. That penalty ruined his race, not Verstappen and it was his own wrong doing.

Looks like you are correct. Sebastian should be, and had been, punished.

- after Verstappen and RBR set him up ( innocently, of course )

- after DC reported him

- and, after FiA studied data for quite a while (what 2 hrs?)

Otherwise I am glad that you find rest of the race quite in order.

[Emmcee 0]

Fact is Seb broke the rules, he was lucky is wasn't another driver as only few could've avoided race ending contact like Ricciardo did, that's how I see it.

[Sakae 0]

31 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Fact is Seb broke the rules, he was lucky is wasn't another driver as only few could've avoided race ending contact like Ricciardo did, that's how I see it.

Right you are.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

Autosprint has a very interesting article about the dice between Vettel and Ricciardo

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/news/formula1/2016/11/02-552386/f1_messico_su_vettel_e_ricciardo_i_commissari_hanno_toppato/

[Sakae 0]

I had it translated by the machine. The article merely confirms my suspicion that FiA is micromanaging situations, and when data are ambiguous, they yield to popular opinion. Vettel got shafted in the race, and more than once. So much was clear. It remainds me of Schumacher years.

[Emmcee 0]

What ever Vettel received was from his own doing. You cant say what you like and direct verbal abuse at the race director, especially with the statute of a 4x champion, he should be setting an example, not screaming for people to listen to him.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

10 hours ago, Emmcee said:

All of this is irrelevant but sakae, the fact is Sebastian broke a rule and was penalise. Simple as, yeah Verstappen deserved his to but you can't go round trying to gain support to ban moving under braking and the next race, the very next race you go and do it yourself. That penalty ruined his race, not Verstappen and it was his own wrong doing.

well if Verstappen had the decency to race fairly and not back Vettel into Dan, that move from Dan would never even had been possible!

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah it would've, dan would've caught and passed Vettel anyway being on the newer tyre out of the 3 of them. Vettel tried to do it to Ricciardo at monza in 2014 but Ricciardo was to far up alongside for him to attempt it, plus they were in the same team then to. Well I hope this teaches h that whinging doesn't always get you what you want. You know, I'll be 100% here ok. It's not really the fact he carried on over the radio like a pork chop, it's the fact he has excuses by saying he was in the limit or full of adrenalin and in the heat of the moment. He do scribes it as if he is the only one out there experiencing this. That is what ticks me of.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

48 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Yeah it would've, dan would've caught and passed Vettel anyway being on the newer tyre out of the 3 of them. Vettel tried to do it to Ricciardo at monza in 2014 but Ricciardo was to far up alongside for him to attempt it, plus they were in the same team then to. Well I hope this teaches h that whinging doesn't always get you what you want. You know, I'll be 100% here ok. It's not really the fact he carried on over the radio like a pork chop, it's the fact he has excuses by saying he was in the limit or full of adrenalin and in the heat of the moment. He do scribes it as if he is the only one out there experiencing this. That is what ticks me of.

That's the point...everything about Vettel ticks you off

[Sakae 0]

Link provided by Publius (all in Italian), if I have correctly interpreted very lengthy narrative, claim is laid, that (alleged) incident between Ricciardo and Vettel in its nature was unrelated to "Verstappen rule - move under braking". I shall restrain myself of further details for couple of reasons, but substantively conclusion of their analysis might not support Emmcee's position, if I got it right. Sorry about that.

Either way, incident was far from black and white, and who knows whether it should have been considered as an offense at all. For us to sit here and make some definite statements seems therefore borderline lunacy. There is a good chance, that FiA's conclusion might not have been correct on more than one count.

In terms of foul language, internet, prompted by loveliness of Seb's foul mood, it is bursting with quotes from all over. I will spare you from making long list, but if you think Vettel was bad, I should bring in Montoya describing Kimi, Palmer describing an official, Ricciardo describing Kimi, and there is more. Media performed a really nasty job on Seb, but for some reason they were laughing over some really vulgar language when the other guys vented. Worst thing is, those are the same people. Well, this is environment of double standards, and depends who the players are, we can see this again and again. DR, IMO is really nothing, but two faced hypocrite.

[Sakae 0]

After this the guy has to ask his daddy whether he has done something out of order?

 

[Emmcee 0]

3 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

That's the point...everything about Vettel ticks you off

What ticks me of is people on here whinge about drivers do this and that yet when Vettel does it, it's almost like people are blind to the fact or have a very short memory or simply forgot that they ridiculed a driver for that in the past. Or there's some scientific explanation as to why his exact move wasn't wrong but the one prior was. Vettel doesn't tick me of brad, assumption does though.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

13 hours ago, Emmcee said:

Yeah it would've, dan would've caught and passed Vettel anyway being on the newer tyre out of the 3 of them. Vettel tried to do it to Ricciardo at monza in 2014 but Ricciardo was to far up alongside for him to attempt it, plus they were in the same team then to. Well I hope this teaches h that whinging doesn't always get you what you want. You know, I'll be 100% here ok. It's not really the fact he carried on over the radio like a pork chop, it's the fact he has excuses by saying he was in the limit or full of adrenalin and in the heat of the moment. He do scribes it as if he is the only one out there experiencing this. That is what ticks me of.

[Emmcee 0]

What Iam saying is he used the excuse that he was full of adrenalin and in the heat of the moment. So are 21 other drivers, what's there excuse then when something goes wrong? In any other sport, speaking to a referee or director the way Seb did would earn you a disrupute charge. Seb is different and so is Ferrari, notice that's why it's called FIA, Ferrari International Assistance. Get away with bloody murder they do.

[Sakae 0]

Yes Alain, absolutely, as asserted on this forum right after the race.

[Quiet One 15]

Ah the straw man, yes.

[Emmcee 0]

3 minutes ago, Quiet One said:

Ah the straw man, yes.

You do know what "straw men" are don't you?

[Sakae 0]

Whut?

Alain, as usually, makes a lot of sense. Must be new, and scary experience for some forumers, and very threatening to their world.

[Emmcee 0]

You would agree of Vettel mentioned it but wouldn't you? You'd be all for it.

[Sakae 0]

1 hour ago, Emmcee said:

You would agree of Vettel mentioned it but wouldn't you? You'd be all for it.

I am not sure WTH you are on, but read it again.

- Sakae critiqued FiA for inconsistency and fuzzy rules.

- Alain Prost critiqued FiA inconsistency and fuzzy rules.

- Today, our lover boy Max critiqued FiA inconsistency and fuzzy rules. (Link above enclosed)

Not enough for you?

[Emmcee 0]

That's my point, takes heaps of people to convince you, then you jump on the bandwagon and pretend nothing happened. You know, it is ok to say "I made a mistake".

[Sakae 0]

52 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

That's my point, takes heaps of people to convince you, then you jump on the bandwagon and pretend nothing happened. You know, it is ok to say "I made a mistake".

The mistake I have on my mind, in contrast to you, are main mistakes committed by Verstappen and Hamilton. What has been critiqued by names on the list is FiA inconsistency letting one to go free, whilst the other one being penalized. That's why Verstappen-boy is p****d. He saw what Hamilton has done and got away with, which made him think, he can do it as well, and not yield to Vettel. To his surprise, FiA was on a different page and kicked him nicely; late, but they did.

Vettel had a racing accident not worth mentioning, but in response to whining by DC, he got shafted by FiA. The end.

[Emmcee 0]

Do you think of Vettel wasn't so vocal on the radio that they would've let his penalty slide? Or do you think the pressure from Redbull was enough? All this comes down to needing a consistant fact of judge.

[radical-one 0]

I agree with Herbert.

HERBERT: VETTEL SHOULD HAVE GOT SOMETHING

Formula One’s governing body got it wrong twice over with Ferrari’s Sebastian Vettel at last weekend’s Mexican Grand Prix, according to former race winner and television pundit Johnny Herbert.

Stewards promoted and demoted the German to and from the podium after he tangled with Red Bull’s Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo, and then let him off for hurling abuse at race director Charlie Whiting over the radio.

Herbert told Reuters that, while he welcomed the airing of communications between driver and team as an insight into the stresses of racing, Vettel’s swearing at Whiting had gone too far.