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radical-one

'16 Mexican Grand Prix (Guessing game)

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@BradSpeedMan My (summary) post was re-posted of something what was brought up earlier already, here more for benefit of Ruslan, who sounded as we are unfair in judging LH in T1. He felt that Rosberg was the one to be critised, regardles what MV has done. My point was, notwithstanding opinions on this forum, there were substantial opinions also on the outside not letting LH (and CW) entirely off the hook. Unfortunately it has put me in a line of fire, and we are back talking about Sakae and Vettel instead.

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5 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

And what exactly is wrong with that? Why create debates about everything he post trying to convince everybody you're right. You're doing a very bad job if that's the case, you have'nt convinced anybody. I can't recall any single debate where we've argued and you've come to accept any of the opposing arguments, even when it's clear you're wrong. Instead, it turns into one of your favourite sayings, as illustrated above... We have to agree to disagree...

Have a better look mate, I try to be fair and tell it how it is, but some are so brainwashed with propaganda that they take offence to everything. It's all good, it's clear now some people think they know me better than i know myself. So you would rather argue than to settle with different opinions? That's where the maturity comes in, I don't expect anyone to understand me as Iam not brainwashed by government propaganda in society like most are, Iam not a sheeple, or a follower, Iam a leader and some can't comprehend the fact I stand on my own two feet but each to there own. All good mate, I know what to expect now. Well I did already. I have never ever once seen you disagree with anything a Ferrari fan has said, no matter how stupid it sounds, so don't start pointing the finger and playing the blame game, when your just as bad and biased not to mention but Iam used to it to the point I can almost predict what dribble will be posted. Let me ask you this, you wouldn't  be bothered at all if all I ever posted was about redbull and Ricciardo? Never ever disagreed with another redbull fan and then post all the defence under the sun to support my driver when HE causes two first corner shunts and blames everyone else but himself. Have the balls to tell it how it is for once brad, you and sakae, admit Vettel or kimi or Ferrari makes a mistake. As far as both of you are concerned, Vettel and kimi are the two best drivers in the history of Motorsport as they have never made a mistake, it is ok to say they did the wrong thing, it just makes you two look rediculously bias minded that you can defend such crap. I could see it now if alonso carried on like Seb did, oh man you would dig your foot right into it and don't say you wouldn't. Truth is brad, I would have a heck of a lot more respect for you and sakae if you could just admit fault once, just once, but hell would freeze over before that. I've got no personal issue with anyone here but I can't stand when people assume or think they know, when they have no bloody idea, I mean when some think they know my intention on specific posts, you're not me, you don't know what Iam feeling or thinking so stop thinking you do. Assumption is the mother of all fvck ups.

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Yeah, we know you pretty well,

The whole point of a debate is to find common ground and to try and listen to each other, it's got nothing to do with being a leader or not, or being brainwashed by government propaganda....

The defence as a ferrari fan were made as absurd as the accusations against the drivers and their "so-called mistakes". If you post anything absurd on RBR and Ric, we will point you out and correct you on that too

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Yeah alright mate if it helps you sleep at night. Once again assumption, I never said I was a leader here, Iam in general, so get your facts right bud. Point me out on mistakes? Who made you fact of judge when it comes to who's right and who's wrong, self appointing ourselves are we? You would just bend it to suit your needs so you don't have to admit your wrong, you always do it.

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Ferrari is appealing FiA' decision rendered in Mexico in the matter of SV v. DR.

Quote

Scuderia Ferrari has submitted a request to the FIA stewards to review the penalty given to Sebastian Vettel in the closing stages of the Mexican Grand Prix two weeks ago.

Vettel was penalized for appearing to drive in a dangerous and erratic manner by moving under braking in defending fourth place from Daniel Ricciardo.

Vettel crossed the line fourth before being classified third after a penalty for Max Verstappen, but was ultimately demoted to fifth after the stewards deemed him to have breached the regulations.

In a statement issued on Thursday ahead of this weekend’s Brazilian Grand Prix, Ferrari confirmed that it would be taking the action.

“Scuderia Ferrari has submitted a request to the Stewards of the 2016 Mexican Grand Prix to review their decision to penalize Sebastian Vettel for breach of Article 27.5 of the 2016 F1 Sporting Regulations as a consequence of his driving behavior in Turn 4 of lap 70,” it reads.

“This has been the first application of Article 27.5 of the 2016 F1 Sporting Regulations as interpreted on the basis of the Race Director’s notes on ‘defensive maneuvers’ and effective from the 2016 US Grand Prix.

“Scuderia Ferrari considers that a number of new elements have come to light after the decision was rendered that make the decision reviewable under Article 14.1 of the International Sporting Code.

“Scuderia Ferrari is aware that championship rankings will not change, regardless of the outcome. But in light of its importance as a precedent for the future, and in order to provide clarity in the application of the rules in future events, Scuderia Ferrari believes that the decision should be reconsidered by the Stewards.”

FIA race director Charlie Whiting was present in Thursday’s FIA press conference to discuss the penalties handed out in Mexico, including Vettel’s.

“I think you can see very clearly that both cars are on the left of the track,” Whiting said of Vettel and Ricciardo, referring to footage being shown during the press conference.

“Sebastian moves to the right and then, in the braking zone, moves to his left and then you can see quite clearly that Daniel had to take evasive action.

“I think you can see very clearly that, had Daniel’s right front hit Sebastian’s left rear it would have been a significantly different scenario. That’s, I think, what the stewards really looked at was that it was a potentially dangerous situation. It’s close, and I think that’s what the stewards looked at.”

Vettel responded to Whiting’s comments by saying he still did not agree with the decision taken.

“Well, obviously I don’t agree with the decision that was made,” Vettel said.

“I think I moved over once to defend my position, after that yeah, I think I gave Daniel enough room on the inside; I kept the car straight for more than the majority of the braking, so I think the reason why, from my point of view, why Daniel locked up so bad is because there was no grip on the inside.

“There were people locking up on other corners when they were offline, so I think it actually looks a bit worse than it was.

“I don’t think it was actually dangerous for Daniel at that point but OK, I have to deal with the decision.”

 

Vettel not only has lost a podium, but they gave him another 2 demerit points. He is half way to a race ban; 12 in total makes you sit on the bench (points shall be removed of his sheet only after 12 months). Debate whether he deserves it all is another matter, and I am not going there. Not now.

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What does he mean dangerous for Daniel? Dan was alongside him when he started to move across. Kept the car straight for majority of the braking? Didn't look like it to me Seb. One thing I take from this is the extent Seb has to go to to defend from Daniel, monza 2014 still fresh? Nice find btw sakae.

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I do not want to put words into Vettel's mouth, but I am guessing that Seb thinks DC was on slippery surface, and wheel to wheel racing did not pan out without drama; that's my interpretation. Considering circumstances of the meeting, Vettel certainly refrained himself to be more forceful, and had not asked DC how much control he had over his car. Ferrari most likely will make that point to a review panel instead, that it was a racing incident, unrelated to "Verstappen's rule", and not worthy of discussion, never mind punishment. Ferrari is not seeking turning clock back and getting Seb on the podium, but they want on merit, and deservedly, wash some mud off him.

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Do you think Seb would've been as aggressive if it was another driver with less skill? I don't think so, I feel Seb pushed it that little bit harder as he had more confidence in dan that they wouldn't touch had it been someone else, just a thought. I think the issue lies not in what Seb actually did but more so the fact he wanted clarification on what verstappen has done in the past and goes and does the same thing. That's all my issue is with that and the radio but it's old news now.

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Regardless of chatter on the forums, what is safe to say, that Ferrari, based on their post-race analysis, does appear to disagree with the stewards of the race regarding that specific incident. It's not often we hear Ferrari would do that (publicly, and through official channels), but they have done it now. I am actually glad, and not just because who is involved, and despite that I do not expect any changes as relevant to that race, but that self-righteous attitude by race supervisors needs to be questioned from time to time, placing them under microscope, because unless there is a huge issue on the table, they do run unrestrained, and that's never good. As Herbert said, let them race! I do not want to see a day when someone gets hit at the wheel by MV, and victim receives penalty based solely on driver's radio call.

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Yeah but Charlie whiting based the penalty of the data he received and it was clear that Vettel changed his line at the last moment. He attended the drivers press conference but I can't find an upload link to share so if you can find it, he clarifies why the penalties were handed out. He basically stated that if a driver has to take evasive action to avoid contact from the defence of another car, it warrants a penalty. Verstappen wants drivers to be penalised each time they leave the circuit no matter the circumstance.

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I am not sure we can talk here about clarity, when Ferrari says they have an evidence to the contrary based on their internal analysis. Why not wait and evaluate what they have, before we spit on them? They are already under attack (mainly of course by Horner) just because they dare to think there was an error of judgement by FiA's representatives.

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Of course there going to say that but, the data was provided at request by the FIA and the data said exactly what was needed to deem a penalty. What Ferrari are upset about is why now is it only naughty to do this, you have to draw the line at some point especially with all the commotion about Verstappen, just so happens they got caught out with it first, tough luck IMO, could've happened to anyone, well anyone willing to push the envelope that is.

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1 hour ago, Emmcee said:

Of course there going to say that but, the data was provided at request by the FIA and the data said exactly what was needed to deem a penalty. What Ferrari are upset about is why now is it only naughty to do this, you have to draw the line at some point especially with all the commotion about Verstappen, just so happens they got caught out with it first, tough luck IMO, could've happened to anyone, well anyone willing to push the envelope that is.

Possibility exists, that FiA got it wrong. They aren't infallible, or are they? If they didn't make a mistake, than they have nothing to fear. There is no need for your blood pressure to go into overdrive every time you hear word Ferrari.

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It's not mate, Iam pretty calm, no need for you to assume when your wrong about my intention. All the proof was there for them to make the call, Charlie said three things had to be satisfied for the penalty to occur.

1- that the defending driver moved under braking, which Vettel did

2- the second car was put in a dangerous position, which THEY (being the FIA) thought Ricciardo was

3- that Ricciardo had to take evasive action to avoid contact which the FIA felt he had to. 

That's what Charlie explained and I was trying to have a civilised conversation but like always you take it out of context no matter the proof and say I have an issue, no issue here bud only issue I have is assumption on your behalf that's incorrect.  So I can't see how the FIA got it wrong when the quota for the penalty was met AND had an expierienced driver on the steward panel, if we're assuming I assume you think they got it wrong because it was at Vettel and Ferrari, since we're all assuming here. See I can't even try to have a decent chat without you thinking its personal, you've got to stop taking things to heart mate.

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