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Unknown?

Next season

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All they have to do is allow cars to follow a lot more closely and some how eliminate this aero dead zone that causes drivers to loose down force. Saw it happen to webber when he got Hamilton up the rear in Australia one year. Even if it's harder to overtake, if you can allow the cars to follow a lot closer, overtaking, although might be harder would be found and would be more dramatic.

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One month to go, and testing begins in Spain.

20 drivers on the grid, and better life for Sauber.

I have no problem with that.

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Given the massive strides forward Manor made in the last couple of seasons (remember they used to finish 3 laps down initially) and now they are gone, and also given Sauber will be using dated Ferrari engines (look how TR started strongly and fell off as the year went on - going to be even worse next season with free development), I'm far from happy.

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Racing is not a societal entitlement. It is an expensive endeavor, and once in, the goal is to crush competition in every conceivable manner permitted by the rules. It's grueling and cruel process. Not everyone is expected to survive, and just like in Navy Seal training, teams should know when there is time to pack up, and go home, because they do not fit in. That would be my take on that.

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3 hours ago, Unknown? said:

Given the massive strides forward Manor made in the last couple of seasons (remember they used to finish 3 laps down initially) and now they are gone, and also given Sauber will be using dated Ferrari engines (look how TR started strongly and fell off as the year went on - going to be even worse next season with free development), I'm far from happy.

Sauber used Ferrari power for a long time previously.

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17 hours ago, Emmcee said:

Sauber used Ferrari power for a long time previously.

Yes, but not a year old power unit. They'll be sitting ducks on the power circuits.

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Manor out of the way, Sauber at the moment is poised to end up in last place, regardless which PU they get.  Due to cash flow issues, they began to work on 2017 car quite late, and for what it is, old PU unit for less money is in balance what rest of the vehicle and what that is most likely capable off. Metaphorically speaking, you put Vettel into Manor, and the car still will not make into top 10 comes November. Ask McLaren; they have certainly great experience with such goofy, hard to understand mismatch for quite a while. IMO Sauber made right choice for this season. Next year will be however a different ball game.

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Quote

Hülkenberg:

However he did concede, “In Monte Carlo you will no longer be able to overtake. You just drive in the middle of the road with the wide cars and that’s it.”

Sounds like Monte Carlo is one race which will be executed on Saturday.

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On 29 January 2017 at 2:33 AM, Unknown? said:

Yes, but not a year old power unit. They'll be sitting ducks on the power circuits.

Yeah they have, they did last year along with toro  Rosso and Renault, every team that gets a customer engine with maybe the exception of redbull all used older spec engines, it's why redbull refused Mercedes and Ferrari's offer when they were shopping round 12 odd months ago when all the engine drama with Renault was going on.

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Bullseye.

Why we need REAL testing, as opposed to running all through simulator and CFD equations exclusively. Conditions on the ground and experimental assumptions are hardly ever in alignment. Working in blind with rules being jerked around every two weeks can't be good. Fans were saying so for years, but would anyone listen?

Quote

We will move into new regulations without enough thought going into them. Many of the holistic technical regulations are done, in my opinion, without enough research behind them - Pat Symonds

 

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20 hours ago, Emmcee said:

Yeah they have, they did last year along with toro  Rosso and Renault, every team that gets a customer engine with maybe the exception of redbull all used older spec engines, it's why redbull refused Mercedes and Ferrari's offer when they were shopping round 12 odd months ago when all the engine drama with Renault was going on.

No, they didn't. The FIA introduced a regulation stating all manufacturers have to provide equal spec. engines for their customers. The manufacturers' advantage comes from designing the car/engine around each other whilst the customers have to work with what they're given. 

Suppose I'm wrong anyway, a slightly de-tuned 2016 Ferrari power unit is still miles better than a slightly de-tuned 2015 Ferrari power unit (TR are a customer team so they don't get the best).

I know which one I'd rather have.

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Not a bad move. Have McLaren do all the donkey work and go through the pain, reap the rewards themselves. Good thinking for RB too.. Split your teams to cover off potential weakness from Renault. Good for Honda and by extension McLaren - more teams, more development. 

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A friend tells me that Liberty Media plans to attach the 40 yo legendary "Antiques Roadshow" to their racing calendar so that fans can watch a race while enjoying the awesomeness of purchasing early Victorian teapots.

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Horner revealed by the end of 2015, that Honda asking price per PU was 30 MM (do not recall currency quoted). If TR is going to be a customer of Honda next year, then someone will have to sharpen his pencil, or a wallet needs to open wider, maybe both, but it is not going to be cheap.

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19 hours ago, Unknown? said:

No, they didn't. The FIA introduced a regulation stating all manufacturers have to provide equal spec. engines for their customers. The manufacturers' advantage comes from designing the car/engine around each other whilst the customers have to work with what they're given. 

Suppose I'm wrong anyway, a slightly de-tuned 2016 Ferrari power unit is still miles better than a slightly de-tuned 2015 Ferrari power unit (TR are a customer team so they don't get the best).

I know which one I'd rather have.

They have always said that, you really think Mercedes and Ferrari really would hand the current upgrades and what not to there competitions? No way in hell other wise why would redbull have joined Ferrari or Mercedes if they suposidely have the same engines? Bs, that's why redbull refused both Mercedes and Ferrari's "b spec" deal.

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3 hours ago, Emmcee said:

They have always said that, you really think Mercedes and Ferrari really would hand the current upgrades and what not to there competitions? No way in hell other wise why would redbull have joined Ferrari or Mercedes if they suposidely have the same engines? Bs, that's why redbull refused both Mercedes and Ferrari's "b spec" deal.

So RB use b spec Renault engines? 

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RBR used in 2016 A-spec Renault under Tag H. brand name with some minor mod to them under instructions from Mario Illien (at least that's how I understood it). 

Here.

Quote

Over the period both Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso will receive the French manufacturer's latest hybrid power unit, and have the opportunity to badge the power units as they wish.

 

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20 hours ago, Sakae said:

RBR used in 2016 A-spec Renault under Tag H. brand name with some minor mod to them under instructions from Mario Illien (at least that's how I understood it). 

Here.

 

Precisely my point. 

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Max Mosley

Interesting comments. 

Quote

"My personal view is that it may have gone in the wrong direction," he told ITV. "I would have gone for less aero and perhaps more mechanical grip.

That's what Vettel (and a few other drivers) said.

Speed was no issue for me, as a fan, and how PU system (energy dependent units) will cope with new life in fast lane remains to be seen, but expect trouble, methinks.

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