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Sakae

2017 Ferrari

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10 hours ago, Sakae said:

@Publius Cornelius Scipio

(i) I've never made that claim comparing Ferrari with RB of that period. (It was actually McLaren, and the assessor of competitiveness between two teams was Paddy Lowe in person).  No need for doctor.

 

Are you seriously suggesting the McLaren cars were as good as the Red Bull cars during 2010-2013? Maybe the odd race weekend. Maybe even 2 or 3 races ago on a few occasions. But all those years the Red Bull was clearly the car to have overall

Pretty much every serious journalist concluded that the Red Bull was the best car from 2010-2013. It was a credit to Alonso's ability that he beat Webber in 2010, 2012 and 2013. Webber was a joke from 2011 onward. 

Vettel who made Newey look good? It's the other way round. Alonso made Ferrari look much better than they were from 2010-2014. Hence why he commands much more respect than Vettel amongst experts and his peers. 

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Ferrari management remains silent on post Baku developments, or at least I didn't find any quotes from them. I wonder who will travel with Sebastian and what role they decide to adopt on during hearing (passive observer, or after accepting responsibility then launching counterattack...); hard to say right now, but I am hoping they aren't going to take Hamilton's trickery laying down, despite that current management is not known to make any strong statements about FiA's decisions (as exhibited end of last year after some really atrocious race calls).

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An interesting rumor is floating around regarding sudden improvement of MB, which in reality is not as much improvement, as backslide of Ferrari, making MB look good.

FiA clap down on adding oil to fuel. Narrative is about unnamed former Ferrari employee who moved to MB, and allegedly let his new bosses on that secret. MB then contacted FiA. The move was supposed to hurt red cars.

Do I believe it? Its plausible, but Ferrari seems not to loose too much edge in races, being really good all over (unless of course Sebastian is delivering "150%" and making the car look better that it is).

Some time ago McLaren and RBR, just as MB and Ferrari today, were also converging in performance, and on some tracks one were better than the other one, however it was Seb at the end who made most out of it. 10 years from now, people might be claiming the same way, that Ferrari was far the best car, in 2017, a reason why Hamilton got beaten, but reality is, Vettel is really, really good, and one underestimates him at his own peril. Hamilton will be made to work for his money.

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Honda WILL come GOOD - They are NOT in F1 to JUST sell lawnmowers
They ARE in F1 to WIN!!

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Quote

Alonso to fight for Mercedes or Ferrari seat - Briatore

Really? Hamilton described their relationship at McLaren as follows: (re-posted from Alonso thread)

Quote

(Hamilton)..."My relationship with Fernando was toxic and it intoxicated the whole team. So yes it was personal. There are people with whom you get along and others who you cannot coexist with in any way. If you put two world champions in the same team, each will try to do his best and neither will give way on a single corner. There is too much friction."

I am in doubt that Ferrari is unaware of some of those traits, and is all hot to re-erect burnt bridges with Alonso by kicking one of their drivers out. I rather think that Alonso will continue where he is, or retire of the F1; his decision to make, but his viable choices are almost non-existent, as I see it. Non of three teams RBR, MB, and/or Ferrari will take him.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

Really? Hamilton described their relationship at McLaren as follows: (re-posted from Alonso thread)

I am in doubt that Ferrari is unaware of some of those traits, and is all hot to re-erect burnt bridges with Alonso by kicking one of their drivers out. I rather think that Alonso will continue where he is, or retire of the F1; his decision to make, but his viable choices are almost non-existent, as I see it. Non of three teams RBR, MB, and/or Ferrari will take him.

 

 

there's a slight problem in your argument: at McLaren they are ready to get rid of Honda just to keep nando, if he was such a trouble maker they would probably be happy to let him go. Also, the top brass at Ferrari/FCA were so happy when Mattiacci let Nando go that they fired Mattiacci on the spot. Furthermore you just have to look at Hamilton's history with his team mates to put his words into perspective, to me it just looks as if Hamilton is scared that Nando might join Mercedes and spoil Hamilton's party

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There are several topic in your response, Publius, worth touching upon.

In no way I have attempted to suggest, that McLaren is trying to get rid of Alonso. The truth to be told, I do not spend too much time thinking about that garage. My point rather was, that Alonso might have nowhere to go vis a vis top three teams, which is Briatore's declared objective. He might IMO get an offer from Renault, however even that is not that certain, and Briatore already said that Renault is not ready for Alonso('s ambition).

I am not convinced that McLaren either has, or will be able to reach an agreement with any other PU supplier, but Honda. Could be Renault, but I might be the only one thinking that. It is not going to be MB, or Ferrari, so much is (almost) certain. The arguments against propping up your own rival are the same we heard when RBR were on their knees.

Alonso's return back to Ferrari? Only if his teammate is Kimi (or some other weaker opponent), and Vettel leaves on his own, or will be requested to leave. Everything is possible, however I am having difficulty to see Ferrari management creating (again) a dysfunctional team by lining up Alonso next to Vettel. Instead penning my opinion, I've decided to re-quote Hamilton, who has a point with which I tend to agree. BTW I didn't know that Mattiacci was fired for him firing Alonso. In my research of that subject I was under impression that this was done with consent of upper echelons, especially when there was financial renumeration involved. 

 

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10 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

" They are NOT in F1 to JUST sell lawnmowers"
 

Who sells lawnmowers in F1 ?

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Well, Alonso and Kimi in ferrari worked just fine, just as Alonso and Button, so saying that two WDC can' t work at same team isn' t true.

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28 minutes ago, Sakae said:

There are several topic in your response, Publius, worth touching upon.

In no way I have attempted to suggest, that McLaren is trying to get rid of Alonso. The truth to be told, I do not spend too much time thinking about that garage. My point rather was, that Alonso might have nowhere to go vis a vis top three teams, which is Briatore's declared objective. He might IMO get an offer from Renault, however even that is not that certain, and Briatore already said that Renault is not ready for Alonso('s ambition).

I am not convinced that McLaren either has, or will be able to reach an agreement with any other PU supplier, but Honda. Could be Renault, but I might be the only one thinking that. It is not going to be MB, or Ferrari, so much is (almost) certain. The arguments against propping up your own rival are the same we heard when RBR were on their knees.

Alonso's return back to Ferrari? Only if his teammate is Kimi (or some other weaker opponent), and Vettel leaves on his own, or will be requested to leave. Everything is possible, however I am having difficulty to see Ferrari management creating (again) a dysfunctional team by lining up Alonso next to Vettel. Instead penning my opinion, I've decided to re-quote Hamilton, who has a point with which I tend to agree. BTW I didn't know that Mattiacci was fired for him firing Alonso. In my research of that subject I was under impression that this was done with consent of upper echelons, especially when there was financial renumeration involved. 

 

Saying "creating dysfunctional" team is just proof that you have no idea what are you talking about. 

Most of that team cried when Alonso was leaving, and such statements like yours above are only made by Alonso haters.

End of story.

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Oh you found one statement of driver who was underperforming at the time and was critisied by team at that time.

Same driver was in same situation this season when team director said that when you talk too much you drive less.

In other words he told him "shut up n drive".

Don't make me laugh.

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Well, as long as you are the expert...                 

 

Gianlu D'Alessandro‏ @Gianludale27

CoR9NDuW8AAuFgO.jpg:large

Yes, the word of truth. Kimi will never say anything like this if it were'nt true, the gentleman he is.... Alonso's political games within teams are notoriously known, no wonder a veteran of almost 20 years could'nt even drive the other car

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5 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Yes, the word of truth. Kimi will never say anything like this if it were'nt true, the gentleman he is.... Alonso's political games within teams are notoriously known, no wonder a veteran of almost 20 years could'nt even drive the other car

Now you have two of his former teammates who are more or less on the same page, yet I am a marked man (hater). There were once aired comments from several mechanics how bad it was, but it is not worth my time to do search. At the end if Ferrari wants him back, they will do so regardless what fans say or think.

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You speak nonsense.

If mclaren took him back it means alonso was right during 2007, and in a way ron apologised. B)B)B)B)B)

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9 minutes ago, Caesar said:

You speak nonsense.

If mclaren took him back it means alonso was right during 2007, and in a way ron apologised. B)B)B)B)B)

If I may add something it is worth remebering what Massa said of sharing a team with Alonso, i.e. that he was fine on a personal level with him, they were ok working together but Alonso is just at another level from most other drivers and he's a very difficult yardstick. that to me seems Alonso's main problem, he's very good and being his team mate often translates into being in his shade

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8 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

If I may add something it is worth remebering what Massa said of sharing a team with Alonso, i.e. that he was fine on a personal level with him, they were ok working together but Alonso is just at another level from most other drivers and he's a very difficult yardstick. that to me seems Alonso's main problem, he's very good and being his team mate often translates into being in his shade

Yep, doing the political and it being translated into nr status within a team. Things got rough with Hamilton in his rookie year when Hamilton refused to play 2nd fiddle and beat him on merit, Trulli even got sacked FFS!

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5 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Yep, doing the political and it being translated into nr status within a team. Things got rough with Hamilton in his rookie year when Hamilton refused to play 2nd fiddle and beat him on merit, Trulli even got sacked FFS!

Ahahahaha, so for last 13 years every team wants to have him , although he burned many bridges after he left.

He must be political magician or has mind control ability. Lol

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