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Emmcee

2017 Sauber

53 posts in this topic


At first glance I thought it looked great, and to an extent, it does. On closer viewing I think the front wing is still way too complex which doesn't bode well for following another car closely, especially through high speed corners which will only increase in number due to the increase in cornering speeds this coming season, and also, I'm not convinced by the 'shark fin' at the back.. Looks ugly and detracts from the overall aesthetics of the car, IMO.

Still a massive improvement on last year's car however, and I do really like the new colour scheme.

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LOVE the colour scheme

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Looks similar to ligier colours of the mid 90s.

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@Unknown... Quite interesting observation, you seem to know more than the Sauber designers and engineers about F1 front wing design. Not that they would'nt have picked it up in the windtunnel too. Sauber always goes radical, and don't care much about aesthetics. Bit hamstrung by 1 year old engines, but then Ferrari caught up with Merc by end of year, so fine-tuning required. I hope they fare better this year

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2 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

@Unknown... Quite interesting observation, you seem to know more than the Sauber designers and engineers about F1 front wing design. Not that they would'nt have picked it up in the windtunnel too. Sauber always goes radical, and don't care much about aesthetics. Bit hamstrung by 1 year old engines, but then Ferrari caught up with Merc by end of year, so fine-tuning required. I hope they fare better this year

Everyone knows the complexity of the front wing increases downforce, which of course decreases lap time, which is exactly what the designers want. Unfortunately, it also limits the car's ability to follow another car closely because of the turbulent air. Its strength is running in clean air, which is also its weakness as it needs clean air to work efficiently. Turbulent air from car in front/aerodynamic dependency of front wing following = understeer for car following = scrubbed tires = minimal overtaking = DRS. My comment wasn't specific to Sauber designers, more F1 regulations in general.. The wings are far too complex for my liking and will not help the inherent problems in F1 racing. 

Edited by Unknown?

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Some easy science behind complexities of the front wing commented on - here!

The article explains how it works. I am however not certain it explains why car designs choose this path, instead a simpler wing, if overtaking and higher car speeds were sought after attributes.

I think Hamilton got it right this time. Fears are justified, and in a week we will get taste of it.

Edited by Sakae

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1 hour ago, Unknown? said:

Everyone knows the complexity of the front wing increases downforce, which of course decreases lap time, which is exactly what the designers want. Unfortunately, it also limits the car's ability to follow another car closely because of the turbulent air. Its strength is running in clean air, which is also its weakness as it needs clean air to work efficiently. Turbulent air from car in front/aerodynamic dependency of front wing following = understeer for car following = scrubbed tires = minimal overtaking = DRS. My comment wasn't specific to Sauber designers, more F1 regulations in general.. The wings are far too complex for my liking and will not help the inherent problems in F1 racing. 

Yep well said, when following another car, the wings have to be as minimal as possible as the following car doesn't have to cut into the air so any appendage that lifts itself away from the natural curvature of the wing is going to cause drag,terbulance and basically feel like there is a wall preventing any air reaching the wing to use those extra appendages for advantages. Those spaceship wings only work when your not following a car to closly, anything that affects those ad on bits becomes a pain than a help. The only way this issue will ever be fixed is if the cars wings don't meet in the middle and the car has a small tunnel running under the chassis to allow airflow to reach following cars.

Edited by Emmcee

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This is a semi-mystery story in development. Antonio Giovinazzi will replace Sauber driver Pascal Wehrlein for first test. Question is, whether that is due to adding precautionary rest for the regular driver, or he needs more, but he also need some time on the track, which is why he has to drive in second test only. Point being, we do not know how fit he really will be for the first race. I am consistent and long standing opponent of drivers undertaking in winter or long breaks additional risky activities, because their teams and sponsors invest a lot of money into propers racing, so it is not "just my business" what I do off track. To name a few, Kubica, Webber, now Pascal...they all should have stuck to their regular physical conditioning, walks on the beach, and that's it. Sauber will need points at the end of the season, and weak performance due to personal injury which could have been avoided is not very responsible from Pascal IMO. That applies to Vettel and rest of them as well.

Edited by Sakae

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Pascal needs doctor's approval (Zurich, and probably FiA) for making the second testing leg.

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Has rotten luck that kid.

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He made his own luck in this case. No one twisted his hands to get involved in that circus.

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Should Sauber-team continue under their founder's name, or should it be renamed?

- Prediction for 2017: in last place

- Peter Sauber is on sidelines, does not visit facility, keeps no contact with front office, just occasional touch with a few old friends on the floor 

 

Sad.

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How bs is this? They have sponsored werhelin for how long and only NOW they know what he's like? Ohh bs. Looking for a story of there ever is one.

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Apparently he's body can't psically drive these new cars and is working in his fitness and plans to be back in Bahrain or Russia.

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There was nothing in the news about his physio during pre-season testing. I do not wish to make unfair and stupid remarks concerning his health, but something doesn't sounds just right. In Oz only Saturday morning Giovinazzi gets a call, you are ON...

What a weird case this is.

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I'm guessing there's something else going on other than his 'Fitness'. Political stuff should be the real reason. 

Wouldn't be shocked if Pascal will not race at all this season:huh:

 

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Word on the street is, that Pascal doesn't wants to race unless he is absolutely healthy, and therefore sure he can finish races ahead of his teammate. Loosing internal battle would finish his career for good, and no amount of lack of fitness excuses would make a case for him.

Hard to say what's up, but  some guys who do follow his career longer than me are saying, that he is not the easiest person to get along with. From the distance I am not sure if it is due arrogance or because he is actually a loner and a shy person.

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

Word on the street is, that Pascal doesn't wants to race unless he is absolutely healthy, and therefore sure he can finish races ahead of his teammate. Loosing internal battle would finish his career for good, and no amount of lack of fitness excuses would make a case for him.

I hear what you're saying but his team mate is Ericsson, even a midfielder is a second tier F3 championship would beat him... having said that this "saga" seems interesting, I guess that we'll have to wait and see if it's Wehrlein who doen't want to race until he's 100% (and I just don't see why he should be behind his schedule at this stage), whether Mercedes is no longer willing to subsidise his career or whether Ferrari (who is supplying their engines to Sauber) are pushing to have Giovinazzi in that car

Anyway we shall wait and see

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I have no suitable theory about it with the exception that we are assuming that Ericsson will be easy prey for Pascal. Well, maybe so, however weird things happened before, and can happen again. For now, maybe for lack of understanding facts of the case, I am not too fond of what I see Wehrlein is doing.

Edited by Sakae

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6 hours ago, Sakae said:

There was nothing in the news about his physio during pre-season testing. I do not wish to make unfair and stupid remarks concerning his health, but something doesn't sounds just right. In Oz only Saturday morning Giovinazzi gets a call, you are ON...

What a weird case this is.

Yeah but apparently in Australia his body was hammered after doing almost a full race distance in practice. But like you said sakae, you would think it would've been picked up earlier if this is the soul reason behind it. Indeed seems a bit fishy.

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Totally fishy. Even Alonso's big accident during season only prompt him to miss one race (Vandoonre substitute) and Alonso way to older than Pascal. I would guess that Pascal's recovery should have taken much shorter time.

Plus Pascal used to be a Merc Driver, I think Ferrari is naturally leaning towards their rookie.

If Giovinnacccii (what ever his spelling is) score a point(s) again, Pascal will be booted out for sure.... 

Edited by radical-one

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Pascal being pushed out by a some kind of a secret agreement behind closed doors would imply rather large conspiracy in a play. (Engines, whatever). Possible, but I have difficulty to believe it. Occam Razor rule would rather suggest that Wehrlein has his own plan what he wants to do, and at the moment he appears as someone who does not want to race in that car.  I also think he is pis$ed.

Confirmed in public announcement Giovinazzi has Ferrari's permission to race for Sauber in this, and next race as well.  For now. 

Edited by Sakae

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