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Emmcee

2017 Mclaren

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i can't remember this much hate for Williams when they fell from grace and there still no where near there dominant selves from the 80s/90s.

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12 hours ago, Emmcee said:

i can't remember this much hate for Williams when they fell from grace and there still no where near there dominant selves from the 80s/90s.

The answer is Frank, on the one hand, and Alonso, on the other.

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Thank you for rushing to illustrate my point, dear basement creature.

The driving force behind all the "hate" (for macca, now) is indeed the violent obsessive delusion with Alonso that individuals such as yourself have.

Not a thing to do with fantasized arrogance. Just plain and simple mental disease of some "aficionados".

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Fired from the red team when he threatened team principal with an inflated ego, coupled with burst of tantrums, Alfonso certainly deserves where he is today.

And thanks for making personal insults to a fellow poster, you just illustrated a point

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22 hours ago, maure said:

I did too, despite RD, and I do too, despite the evidence so far.

Yeah. I don(t think the Mc-Honda relationship will last longer than 2017 season. The matching is wrong however we look at it...

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Illustrate what? You poor thing.

We all know you profoundly hate Alonso. You've screamed it for years at every opportunity. Even you must suspect that it is the stuff of abnormal psychology. There is no pretending.

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1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Fired from the red team when he threatened team principal with an inflated ego, coupled with burst of tantrums, Alfonso certainly deserves where he is today.

And thanks for making personal insults to a fellow poster, you just illustrated a point

Are you delusional or have a memory of a goldfish? I don't know how many times and how much proof I can show you that alonso LEFT Ferrari, not fire him. He said he would rather struggle trying a new challenge than repeat the same thing over and over. Vettel was plan b alonso failed to sign the proposed 2019 extension. So I don't know how many more times I can tell you this, you must be thinking of kimi's Ferrari sacking in 2009, your confused mate. So kimi being fired means Ferrari chose Massa over kimi, which means that Ferrari thought massa was a better driver than Raikkonen at that point.

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11 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Are you delusional or have a memory of a goldfish? I don't know how many times and how much proof I can show you that alonso LEFT Ferrari, not fire him. He said he would rather struggle trying a new challenge than repeat the same thing over and over. Vettel was plan b alonso failed to sign the proposed 2019 extension. So I don't know how many more times I can tell you this, you must be thinking of kimi's Ferrari sacking in 2009, your confused mate. So kimi being fired means Ferrari chose Massa over kimi, which means that Ferrari thought massa was a better driver than Raikkonen at that point.

There is enough circumstantial evidence available to public to support opinion, that towards end of Sept 2014 Alonso was not in control of the decision whether he will or will not carry on with Ferrari. Outcome remains the same. Termed any which way you wish. You don't even need impressive analytical mind to understand that saga, but you need to calm down, and do some research of that topic. 

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27 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Are you delusional or have a memory of a goldfish? I don't know how many times and how much proof I can show you that alonso LEFT Ferrari, not fire him. He said he would rather struggle trying a new challenge than repeat the same thing over and over. Vettel was plan b alonso failed to sign the proposed 2019 extension. So I don't know how many more times I can tell you this, you must be thinking of kimi's Ferrari sacking in 2009, your confused mate. So kimi being fired means Ferrari chose Massa over kimi, which means that Ferrari thought massa was a better driver than Raikkonen at that point.

You never showed me any proof. Instead, I showed you proof on the contrary

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1 hour ago, maure said:

Thank you for rushing to illustrate my point, dear basement creature.

The driving force behind all the "hate" (for macca, now) is indeed the violent obsessive delusion with Alonso that individuals such as yourself have.

Not a thing to do with fantasized arrogance. Just plain and simple mental disease of some "aficionados".

Uff. Really? What about you, smartypants? This theory of yours about "basement culture", as apparent, might be cutting both ways, my dear samurai.

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3 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

You never showed me any proof. Instead, I showed you proof on the contrary

Wtf are you smoking? I've shown proof on more than one occassion, I know that's bs because I find find stuff right now that will prove the claim that you and sakae live religeously by is false and inaccurate.

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56 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Wtf are you smoking? I've shown proof on more than one occassion, I know that's bs because I find find stuff right now that will prove the claim that you and sakae live religeously by is false and inaccurate.

Why don't you prove your claims? We have just different interpretation of the past events, that's all, and it doesn’t mean we have attention-deficit disorder, and need to run out and get medication. I will take you through that process again, and you can prove me wrong.

  • Prominent drivers do get into disputes and are asked to leave. (Prost, Hill, to just name two). Alonso bears no immunity on that account.
  • Tension and heavy air existed between Alonso, teammate, Ferrari staff and management alike. All well documented.
  • In 2011 LdM announced that Alonso will be with Ferrari until end of 2016.
  • Early in Sept 2014 Alonso goes public that he wants to stay with Ferrari.
  • There is witness report on the eve of Jp race of nasty blow up in public between Team Principal and Alonso in Japan, with Alonso walking away angrily from Mattiacci.

5 Oct 2014 - 

Quote

Red Bull Racing have confirmed that four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel will quit the team at the end of the season, with team principal Christian Horner admitting that “Ferrari have made him a very attractive offer”. Daniil Kvyat will step up after just one season with Toro Rosso to partner Daniel Ricciardo at Red Bull for 2015.

End of Alonso in Maranello...whether he likes it, or not, that's my conclusion.

Maybe all of this should give a pause to a thinking man. Focus on message, not a messenger, and somehow prove that Alonso walked away under his own power without Ferrari opening a door for him. 

 

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Now we KNOW why the McLaren board wanted to get Ron Dennis OUT.  

Honda are NOT up to the job. They tried it before, when they had their own team - but withdrew and Brawn GP took over the team. The first thing he did was, chuck-out the Honda engine, and get a Mercedes engine - then went on to WIN
Which is the opposite that Ron has done, he chucked-out the WINNING Mercedes engine for Honda, a nice £200Million payment, then Mclaren chucked Ron OUT

So far in testing,  Honda have NOT even completed a full race distance.
AND have used 3 engines!!!

A long way still to go, I know.

But it is NOT looking good for Mclaren OR Honda

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McLaren conducted undeclared war on Mercedes (in road sporting car business terms). Do you think Mercedes is today interested to come back when they must be loving what they see? As Monsieur Napoleon said, never interrupt enemy, when he is making a mistake. Let "iconic" relationship blossom, we like it as it is.

On more serious note, we cannot write this year off as yet. These are growing pains. Noises however suggest, that PU is not the only unit that needs to improve.

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7 hours ago, Sakae said:

Why don't you prove your claims? We have just different interpretation of the past events, that's all, and it doesn’t mean we have attention-deficit disorder, and need to run out and get medication. I will take you through that process again, and you can prove me wrong.

  • Prominent drivers do get into disputes and are asked to leave. (Prost, Hill, to just name two). Alonso bears no immunity on that account.
  • Tension and heavy air existed between Alonso, teammate, Ferrari staff and management alike. All well documented.
  • In 2011 LdM announced that Alonso will be with Ferrari until end of 2016.
  • Early in Sept 2014 Alonso goes public that he wants to stay with Ferrari.
  • There is witness report on the eve of Jp race of nasty blow up in public between Team Principal and Alonso in Japan, with Alonso walking away angrily from Mattiacci.

5 Oct 2014 - 

End of Alonso in Maranello...whether he likes it, or not, that's my conclusion.

Maybe all of this should give a pause to a thinking man. Focus on message, not a messenger, and somehow prove that Alonso walked away under his own power without Ferrari opening a door for him. 

 

Why would I go to all the effort to find it and post it all again for people to have goldfish memories and claim they never exsist. Why not pull your finger out and have a go and find it yourself. It could be found in seconds so if you can't find it, means you don't want to.

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3 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

Now we KNOW why the McLaren board wanted to get Ron Dennis OUT.  

Honda are NOT up to the job. They tried it before, when they had their own team - but withdrew and Brawn GP took over the team. The first thing he did was, chuck-out the Honda engine, and get a Mercedes engine - then went on to WIN
Which is the opposite that Ron has done, he chucked-out the WINNING Mercedes engine for Honda, a nice £200Million payment, then Mclaren chucked Ron OUT

So far in testing,  Honda have NOT even completed a full race distance.
AND have used 3 engines!!!

A long way still to go, I know.

But it is NOT looking good for Mclaren OR Honda

First welcome but I cannot say how false this is. Don't you remember the successful Williams Hondas, or Mclaren Hondas from the 80s/90s. There a company who souley makes NA cars no turbo. So there producing a power plant that is outside the companies normal structure so a whole new department of r&d was required. Doing a bloody good job you ask me concideribg there always behind and playing catchup because whatever ground you make, your rivals just make new ground in the development race so it's always a game of cat and mouse if you will.

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45 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

First welcome but I cannot say how false this is. Don't you remember the successful Williams Hondas, or Mclaren Hondas from the 80s/90s.

In the early 50ies the Alfas 158 and 159 were unbeatable, sadly that was not enough to make Alfas competitive when they returned to F1 nearly 30 years later (more or less the same amount of time that divides us from the glory days of McLaren - Honda with Prost ands Senna), and Alfa could even boast that their flat 12 engine had won the WEC just a few years earlier, so it doesn't look like legacy means much in this respect. Having said that I'm sure that Honda has the know how and the capability to develop a good F1 engine, the point seems to be that they think that they know all and that they are the ones who set the timing and the rules

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1 hour ago, Emmcee said:

Why would I go to all the effort to find it and post it all again for people to have goldfish memories and claim they never exsist. Why not pull your finger out and have a go and find it yourself. It could be found in seconds so if you can't find it, means you don't want to.

Really? Is this the best you can come up with? Please try to do better and answer his points. You have'nt touched even one

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Why would I though? I've done it time and time again and people with goldfish memories can't remember, we had this debate about a month ago, you forget about that already to?

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24 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Why would I though? I've done it time and time again and people with goldfish memories can't remember, we had this debate about a month ago, you forget about that already to?

Yes, we had this debate numorous times before, and each time you came out unconvincing. Let me spell this out to you my friend... Sakae has stated his case so profoundly, so comprehensively, that you dare not even pursue an counterargument. In short, and this is my personal opinion, he has you by the balls. There's some fights you just can't win, this is one if them.

So when I state in future that the signs are so overwhelming that Alfonsi was in fact fired, please just stay quiet, or you risk being called an idiot in this regard

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57 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Do like Maure does, just stay quiet, or stoop down way below and hurl insults

Yeah maure is the smart one, now I realise there's no point trying to convince someone who is still so but hurt over alonso and can't face the fact it was actually kimi who got fired not alonso. It was known all the way throughout the paddock that Ferrari wanted alonso to stay. Just jealous that no matter how old alonso gets, he is still much more sort after than any other driver on the grid and for a person who loathes him, this would hurt. Mate I couldn't care what little deluded world all you kimi and Seb fans come from but it's become a known fact in the internet that these particular fans, live in a world totally different to the real one. Your right mate, Iam wrong ok lol. I would get a more rational debate from an olive, true sh17.

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