2017 Mclaren

[radical-one 0]

2 hours ago, Sakae said:

GP247:

Hasegawa responded, as he had to obviously, but I do detect thinly veiled critique of their partner (I guess) for McLaren's clumsy PR lines. Any new source would have to come from ranks now active in the F1, I think. It's too late for anyone to start from scratch. Sticking with Honda is not a bad idea, but it will be probably a lot of pain for a lot of people before all gets better. 

Yes. I am hoping that Honda will find ways to catch up later in the season.

[Sakae 0]

Not sure how credible info is, but rumor has it, that Honda over and above cost of their own development is paying McLaren 100MM (not sure in which currency) for deployment of their engines.

I've found it - Autoweek

Quote

If the British team were to part company with Honda, this would be less than straightforward -- the team currently receives around $100 million, free power units and a significant sponsorship package. Honda also pays half of the drivers' wages.

Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/mclaren-may-trade-its-honda-mercedes-2017-f1-season#ixzz4bfP7al7a

Reading this, it seems that McLaren is living rather sheltered life, some may even described as parasitic.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

2 hours ago, radical-one said:

Yes. I am hoping that Honda will find ways to catch up later in the season.

Yes I agree, its a patience issue as you've stated. They went abit radical with the engine but I am confident they will "come right" soon I feel

[Sakae 0]

You guys (myself included) are assuming, that current design doesn't contain fundamental flaw which would preclude performance convergence after clean up job is concluded. Other than Hasegawa's comment that on dyno they reached Mercedes 2016 performance level, I have't seen any promises they could match others in 2017 levels. I am hoping they can do it, but on the technical forum some voices were quoting deficit of 100+ HP to current levels where Merc and Ferrari are. A figure of that magnitude is nightmarish beyond reliability, if the estimate is factual. 

[radical-one 0]

3 hours ago, Sakae said:

Not sure how credible info is, but rumor has it, that Honda over and above cost of their own development is paying McLaren 100MM (not sure in which currency) for deployment of their engines.

I've found it - Autoweek

Reading this, it seems that McLaren is living rather sheltered life, some may even described as parasitic.

Looks like McLaren should just put up and be patient as they are financially benefited 

[Sakae 0]

11 minutes ago, radical-one said:

Looks like McLaren should just put up and be patient as they are financially benefited 

Extremely.

[radical-one 0]

36 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Extremely.

So as Alonso. 

There is no real quick fix on this situation so all parties should just work the problem with patience.

Even Merc has some crankshaft issues as well.

[Sakae 0]

All talk about McLaren's options are at the moment empty threads. Neither Cosworth or McLaren has enough money to compete with automakers, and I am in doubt Mercedes will give them the same Honda does. Less barking, more sweat, and a lot of patience is what doctors prescribes in such cases. 

Mercedes denied "crankshaft" issue, and claims that problem has been addressed.

[Emmcee 0]

2 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Yes I agree, its a patience issue as you've stated. They went abit radical with the engine but I am confident they will "come right" soon I feel

I don't think it's that brad, we all know Honda arnt stupid, they have built f1 engines in the past that took Mclaren and Williams to championships. It's this new era of f1 with limited testing. How can someone start in today's formula from scratch when others are already ahead? How is it possible to catch up without breaking the regulations of some sort? It's impossible, simulators can only do so much. That's where the issue is IMHO.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

5 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

I don't think it's that brad, we all know Honda arnt stupid, they have built f1 engines in the past that took Mclaren and Williams to championships. It's this new era of f1 with limited testing. How can someone start in today's formula from scratch when others are already ahead? How is it possible to catch up without breaking the regulations of some sort? It's impossible, simulators can only do so much. That's where the issue is IMHO.

Having said that, they are now 3 years into this new era. The rules are the same for everybody. At least, counting the deficit they had, struggle for the first year or 2 and get to grips with the new hybrid engine formula. Last year they showed great improvement. Then they go back and do radical!!! Those responsible for that decision should be shot! Instead of just a buildup from that momentum, they discarded that baseline and started anew, if I understand what I read correctly. And then there seems to be no synergy between automaker and chassis builder. As per Sakae's point... Did Mclaren also interpret these new aero rules correctly? Honestly, I don't think so, they are BOTH at fault!

[Sakae 0]

4 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Having said that, they are now 3 years into this new era. The rules are the same for everybody. At least, counting the deficit they had, struggle for the first year or 2 and get to grips with the new hybrid engine formula. Last year they showed great improvement. Then they go back and do radical!!! Those responsible for that decision should be shot! Instead of just a buildup from that momentum, they discarded that baseline and started anew, if I understand what I read correctly. And then there seems to be no synergy between automaker and chassis builder. As per Sakae's point... Did Mclaren also interpret these new aero rules correctly? Honestly, I don't think so, they are BOTH at fault!

There is a reason behind the re-design. If memory serves me, Honda asserted, that 2016 design had limited available potential, endangering performance convergence. New design was supposed to address that concern. It still might, mind you. Reliability quirks muddying waters for anyone to say its end of the line for them. They need to test, set and validate countermeasures and that takes time. Hasegawa is however concerned about the gap to new MB, based on delta between his data of dyno, and something he detected in Barcelona.

[Emmcee 0]

9 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Having said that, they are now 3 years into this new era. The rules are the same for everybody. At least, counting the deficit they had, struggle for the first year or 2 and get to grips with the new hybrid engine formula. Last year they showed great improvement. Then they go back and do radical!!! Those responsible for that decision should be shot! Instead of just a buildup from that momentum, they discarded that baseline and started anew, if I understand what I read correctly. And then there seems to be no synergy between automaker and chassis builder. As per Sakae's point... Did Mclaren also interpret these new aero rules correctly? Honestly, I don't think so, they are BOTH at fault!

You made some very good points but I also read somewhere that Ferrari,Mercedes and Redbull are all concerned by the ground Mclaren has made. Could this be down to what I mention earlier? They actually have a decent package because from my reliable source, it wasn't just the engine they were running which will be different in Melbourne, it's almost the whole car. Why would you use time to close the gap to spend it working on something that I see totally irrelevant. 

[radical-one 0]

McLaren and Alonso talks too much about Honda's issues, as if they can survive without Honda's financial support.

In the end, money rules the day and talk takes the bus ! 

 

[Sakae 0]

1 hour ago, radical-one said:

McLaren and Alonso talks too much about Honda's issues, as if they can survive without Honda's financial support.

In the end, money rules the day and talk takes the bus ! 

 

Considering the source, we might be expecting too much, radical.

[radical-one 0]

Let's see. I still believe that Honda is being the more patient one on this whole deal. Sure they have problems but they are working on it (not pointing finger) plus they are putting the money and resources , so what else can they ask from them?

 

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah I don't think it's as bad as media leads on.

[radical-one 0]

I know. Media always tends to bloat things up. It's their nature.

[Sakae 0]

I find AMuS articles pretty much without charged headlines and too much of editorializing on various F1 related events, just as writer's opinion is clearly identified as "Opinion". I gather not all media went to the dogs. Problem with F1 media is rather basic, given nature of their job. Many are just printing what they get from other sources because they do not have resources for joining the traveling circus, and those who do visit paddock must be careful not to pi** wrong people, otherwise their paddock pass (and a job) might disappear. Joining mainstream is safe way to live, whether one agrees with it, or not.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I admit I'm quite sceptical so I only rely on certain media/website for actual F1 info... Pitpass.com, autosport.com... jamesallen or good examples

[Sakae 0]

Will you attend (and report ) radical?

2017 FORMULA ONE™ Australian Grand Prix パブリック・ビューイング
http://www.honda.co....017/20170326_2/

 

[BradSpeedMan 6]

1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Will you attend (and report ) radical?

2017 FORMULA ONE™ Australian Grand Prix パブリック・ビューイング
http://www.honda.co....017/20170326_2/

 

Sakae, my friend. I might be perceived as someone who is abit of a genius... but Chinese I will unfortunately never understand in a million years

[Sakae 0]

Ehm, silly me, and I thought it is in Japanese. (Something about invitation to a Honda event). Radical is an expert. (maure got bored and disappeared).

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Lol. Japanese or chinese...either way 

Google page asked to translate from Japanese. And of course Honda page. So u understand abit?

[Sakae 0]

I expect Honda to engage on their home turf at Aoyama in a bit of PR on subject how life is great after all. Our man in Tokyo could swing it and get some intel for us. 

[radical-one 0]

8 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Sakae, my friend. I might be perceived as someone who is abit of a genius... but Chinese I will unfortunately never understand in a million years

It's Japanese Katakana meaning - Public viewing