Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2017 Especially a company that has built some of the best road cars on an affordable budget that has ever been made. Not to mention the quality of there bikes and electronics. Honda are a victim of this noose controlled sport, Honda isn't big enough to throw all of its budget behind f1 so it they can't test, something has to give. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2017 This isn't good. http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/03/14/formula_1/1489481925_491943.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 14, 2017 31 minutes ago, Caesar said: This isn't good. http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/03/14/formula_1/1489481925_491943.html Whats the summary here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2017 30 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said: Whats the summary here? Engine 100hp down Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2017 Ay Caramba! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Read. Good contribution to a discussion about what it takes to switch a PU supplier (McLaren divorce). I am not a fan of Brundle, but I do agree with him that both parties, Honda and McLaren are too deeply integrated technically and financially to separate easily on a whim. The only question then is, will they decide to race regardless of outcome, or focus on in-season development instead. My choice would be to pull out for this year. There is danger that Honda might be left out in cold, if they do not reach PU performance convergence, and unless FiA drops hybrids and pick something else, Honda would forever suffer, and after spending big bucks, they would withdraw later. Automaker has to make some fundamental decisions, including possibility that pouring another substantial sum of funds this year into this project, McLaren will try to ditch them anyway at later date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical-one 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sakae said: Read. Good contribution to a discussion about what it takes to switch a PU supplier (McLaren divorce). I am not a fan of Brundle, but I do agree with him that both parties, Honda and McLaren are too deeply integrated technically and financially to separate easily on a whim. The only question then is, will they decide to race regardless of outcome, or focus on in-season development instead. My choice would be to pull out for this year. Agree with you Sakae. Both Honda and mcLaren are stuck with each other for now. They just have to work out their problems and get out of the crap hole. There's no short cuts UNFORTUNATELY. BRUNDLE: MCLAREN CAN’T LEAVE HONDA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, radical-one said: Agree with you Sakae. Both Honda and mcLaren are stuck with each other for now. They just have to work out their problems and get out of the crap hole. There's no short cuts UNFORTUNATELY. BRUNDLE: MCLAREN CAN’T LEAVE HONDA Right, but as I've mentioned earlier, contract between Honda and McLaren has purportedly several clauses for a party getting out, and one of those triggers will be available end of 2017. Honda therefore is in very difficult position, because after pouring huge amount of (new) money into this, McLaren may want to walk away anyway, if they deem it suits them. They should talk (as I hope they are). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 What other supplier could Mclaren get if they choose to part ways? I doubt Mercedes would want to supply them as that was the reason the severed ties as Mclaren had to much info on Mercedes tech. Could they coax someone out like BMW Or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical-one 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 BMW or any other engine manufacturer, apart from the ones in F1 currently/now will go through initial tough time that Honda is going through now and in the past 2-3 years. Mclaren's best bet would be Renault or Ferrari if they walk away from Honda. IMO their best option still is to work with Honda. Maybe Honda will be able to work their problems out. Besides, that's what testing is for, to see initial problems that can be resolved before then season starts. I wouldn't count Honda out this early when the season hasn't even begun. I know how detailed and hard workers the Japanese are. I see them rebounding back into contention sooner than people think. Honda remains 100% committed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Yeah Honda is the best choice but I also feel Honda will pull out before it gets to extreme. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical-one 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Honda has more reason to stay in F1 than to pull out. Money isn't a problem. They just need a bit of time to recover. They will. I wouldn't be shocked if they get to higher than mid-field after 4 races. Honda has got something really new going on that just need time to adapt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Yeah I beleive it, some people just don't know exactly what type of company Honda is and its ability to build awesome engines. I don't honestly think it's as bad as it's made out to be and alonso also said the engine in Australia is totally different than the one there were running in testing. So one thing I have just thought of is if Mclaren was running a different spec engine in testing compared to the Australian one they will use, have they actually got a engine that's competitive and what they were testing was a later spec engine, is that a possibility? Just doesn't make sense why you would do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical-one 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Probably an updated one for Australia vs the one they tested in Spain due to timing or something. My guess. Ferrari for example has been in F1 forever with tons of championships under their belt but still they experienced hardships with their own engine and chassis for a long spell until now and we still are not sure how good their car would be. Looked good in testing but who knows, it will be a long season. I just can't write off Honda/Mclaren as of yet. It may look worse than the actual problem, we are not sure at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, radical-one said: Probably an updated one for Australia vs the one they tested in Spain due to timing or something. My guess. Ferrari for example has been in F1 forever with tons of championships under their belt but still they experienced hardships with their own engine and chassis for a long spell until now and we still are not sure how good their car would be. Looked good in testing but who knows, it will be a long season. I just can't write off Honda/Mclaren as of yet. It may look worse than the actual problem, we are not sure at this point. If they can fix it while sustaining gruel initial schedule, that would be great for everyone. McLaren owners were reported to call friends in Stuttgart, which seems then rather unnecessary gesture. Coulthard thinks this is not going to work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lipstick79 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 On 17/03/2017 at 3:16 PM, Emmcee said: Yeah I beleive it, some people just don't know exactly what type of company Honda is and its ability to build awesome engines. I don't honestly think it's as bad as it's made out to be and alonso also said the engine in Australia is totally different than the one there were running in testing. So one thing I have just thought of is if Mclaren was running a different spec engine in testing compared to the Australian one they will use, have they actually got a engine that's competitive and what they were testing was a later spec engine, is that a possibility? Just doesn't make sense why you would do that. Yeah I HAVE believed all along that it is just, smoke & mirrors Why are Honda in F1 - Marketing, just like the fizzy drink (RedBull) The world is talking about Honda, 1 job done Now they just need to deliver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 I beleive they will eventually get there, it's just taking long than anticipated but you can't put this all on Honda. Like I already mentioned, how can they close the gap in testing when others just take a step ahead? If testing wasn't restricted, the would close the gap a lot lot sooner, late last season the Honda started to show some pace, although still lacking power, it was clear that gains had been made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Wiki Strangely enough, Wiki page has been already updated that McLaren has approached MB this year about (customer) engine supply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 That is odd but can't anyone edit wiki? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 56 minutes ago, Emmcee said: That is odd but can't anyone edit wiki? They update frequently I believe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical-one 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 10 hours ago, Sakae said: If they can fix it while sustaining gruel initial schedule, that would be great for everyone. McLaren owners were reported to call friends in Stuttgart, which seems then rather unnecessary gesture. Coulthard thinks this is not going to work. I understand that McLaren isn't too patient at this point but what are their options? Cosworth? Renault? It took Merc almost 4 years to become competitive, RB from their slump 3 years, Ferrari more than 5 years now, so what's all the impatience from McLaren? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, radical-one said: I understand that McLaren isn't too patient at this point but what are their options? Cosworth? Renault? It took Merc almost 4 years to become competitive, RB from their slump 3 years, Ferrari more than 5 years now, so what's all the impatience from McLaren? Tied to Alonso and his 3rd title. Slip sliding away Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 3 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said: They update frequently I believe Ohh ok but can't anyone just update it though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 5 hours ago, radical-one said: I understand that McLaren isn't too patient at this point but what are their options? Cosworth? Renault? It took Merc almost 4 years to become competitive, RB from their slump 3 years, Ferrari more than 5 years now, so what's all the impatience from McLaren? GP247: Quote Hasegawa said in an interview, “Of course the situation we find ourselves in is not what we hoped for when we returned to Formula One, but we are still 100 per cent committed to our future in the sport and our relationship with McLaren.” “We believe in this partnership as does McLaren, and in order to move forward it is important for us to work as one team and overcome the situation together.” “The priority is to maintain honest and open communication, and to continue strengthening all relationships between Honda and McLaren despite the difficulties we are facing. This is not a short-term project for us.” Hasegawa responded, as he had to obviously, but I do detect thinly veiled critique of their partner (I guess) for McLaren's clumsy PR lines. Any new source would have to come from ranks now active in the F1, I think. It's too late for anyone to start from scratch. Sticking with Honda is not a bad idea, but it will be probably a lot of pain for a lot of people before all gets better. If not sabbatical for cleaning it up, then they have to probably give up racing, and use track time to test, test, and more testing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical-one 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 5 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said: Tied to Alonso and his 3rd title. Slip sliding away Yeah well, Alonso is free to go where ever is willing to pay his over priced salary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
